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Desperately Smelly Neighbour; What To Do?

Smith1942

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Hi,

So, we have these neighbours who are stinking up our own apartment inside from not washing. I think they've lived here for fifty or sixty years. They are a mother and son. The mother is well into her nineties, and the son must be in his early sixties. They are neighbourhood fixtures - everyone knows them and they are a part of the place, which is a historic Boston neighourhood. Without giving too much away location-wise, it's a famous district for a particular kind of food and nationality, and they hail from the country of the Old World from which this neighbourhood is formed. They're part of the Old Guard. I have lived here since 2007, my husband since 2005.

It's terribly sad, because the son is clearly mentally disabled, which is why he lives with his mother. It's hard to describe, and we don't know exactly what's wrong. I'll give you an example: he will start asking you if you use computers and will then talk about air traffic control and that you can control the weather with computers, and other crazy stuff. You can't have a normal conversation with him, sadly. Once in the basement, instead of putting his clothes into the toploader and pressing the button, he had filled the machine and opened it, and was dragging the clothes around instead of letting the machine wash. He has myopia - he seems to wear two layers of glasses - and he walks a little oddly. And periodically, we can hear him going absolutely nuts in his apartment, shouting and screaming and swearing. (He has never done this in public and the building, in general, sees him as a non-dangerous, non-threatening "savant"/"genius" type. I agree with this assessment. He has never acted in a remotely threatening manner to anyone in the building, which is full of people who have been here many years.)

The problem? He never washes, and he smells so bad that the entire hallway smells and...wait for it...the hallway inside our apartment smells sometimes too. You can tell by his grease-laden hair that he never washes. The smell, in summer, is awful. If we wanted to sell the place, it would have a bad effect on us. It's always been this way, and we have tried to ignore it, but it just gets worse each year.

His mother is so old that she's probably lost her sense of smell, although she is very sharp mentally. But she's really old, you know? No one in the 'hood remembers how old she is! So given the state of the place - their apt smells also - and the way he reeks, the two of them living together is a bit like the blind leading the blind!

The plot thickens, though. A few doors down the street, not sure exactly where, he has a brother. The brother is normal, also a genius-type but this guy is a professor at Harvard, married with adult children. Sometimes they visit.

I do get concerned about fire. Their kitchen is behind the wall of a corridor that leads to the stairs and lift. If they left the stove on and there was a fire, our escape route would be blocked.

However, since the fire station is five doors down, I guess we shouldn't worry too much, and we have a balcony so we could practically shout for them from where we are. And there are other neighbours who are fire risks, too: One lady living alone who is so old she really can't walk, or see, and two alcoholics - a mother and son who live in separate apartments. Always the way with apts - someone could be smoking in bed and you wouldn't know.

The core problem is the stench. Now, I know we could call all sorts of agencies. However, I do not want to start something that will be very unpleasant for them. One is elderly and the other is incapable. In this country, I get the feeling that once something has been put into action, the procedure is followed through come what may and not so gently, either. A man in LA who was smelly like this, William Norwell, was harrassed with endless notices and taken to court and had ten cops in his place pointing guns at him! I do not want this for them. They are usually very quiet and they can't help their problems. Deep down, I feel extremely sorry for them.

So, what to do? Talk to the brother? If we do that, we will never be able to report them because it will be obvious who's got the authorities onto them. But as I said above, I don't think I want to unleash all that onto their poor confused heads.

I just don't know what to do about the smell and would be interested to know if anyone has any thoughts. My husband and I are quite stuck. Personally, I don't think they're capable of living alone - she clearly can't look after him, and she herself in her nineties. Since they are vulnerable, I don't want to sic all the city agencies on them. I think these actions can take on a life of their own, and that's what I don't want. It would terrify the poor souls.

It's possible that the brother wants them to move into some sort of sheltered accommodation and that they won't move. I wouldn't mind them being there at all if the son would only wash and the smell would go away.

Thoughts, anyone??

P.S. Just want to add that we are all owners in this building, so no landlords to complain to. I did talk to someone on the board (it;s a condo building) a couple of weeks ago and she said she'd consult the condo association's lawyer - who is the son of Bette Davis, by the way!
 

missy

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Smith, I'm sorry about this unpleasant situation.

My first step would be to do what you did and report it to the managing agent (or head of the condo board). I am not sure approaching anyone in the family is a great idea as it doesn't sound from your description that they would be receptive. If the professor brother doesn't realize/care/feel he can do anything about his brother and mom and the situation they are living in not sure your speaking to him will make any difference. I mean the prof brother visits and still the situation remains so clearly speaking with him doesn't seem like it would help.

If the managing agent/condo board cannot help (and the managing agent certainly should be able to report it to the proper agency/authorities instead of you) there must be an agency (I cannot think of the name) that cares for the welfare of people in need that you can call and explain the situation to...it seems that it might be dangerous from your description for them to be living by themselves. That would be my main concern. That they need live in care/help as they might not be able to properly/safely care for themselves.

Best of luck-I hope they get the help and care they need. It's a difficult and sad situation.
 

sonnyjane

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You either contact someone that might cause unpleasantness for them, or you continue with unpleasantness for you - your decision. It's definitely not wise no confront the family directly. Anonymously (to the neighbors at least) contact appropriate people as mentioned above. If the odor is that strong it's very possible something else is going on inside the apartment - a hoarding situation for example? Or perhaps the elderly woman is too old to care for herself and son and is literally in need of medical assistance. They can simply come by and do a welfare check.
 

smitcompton

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Hi,



The Condo attorney can write a letter to the mother or the Harvard brother stating the problem. He's going to ask them to please correct it. If the letter from the attorney doesn't do the trick, you ought to talk to the brother. In this country we sort of hate nursing homes and will do almost anything to stay in our own home. The brother wants to keep the family together. What you can make him understand is that he may have to give his brother a bath and send some cleaning people in to clean the apartment. Really, its not so hard to do. If no one compains, he doesn't know there is a problem.

Retirement homes always have to do this kind of thing with family members. Its better if management does it, but if they don't , you really will be doing your neighbors a service if you contact the Harvard brother. Don't contact agencies before you contact the brother. It takes on a life of its own.

Annette
 

aviastar

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I'm sorry you have to deal with this and I'm sorry that these two people are not getting the care and help they need.

This is a link to Elder Care services; you type in your zipcode and it helps you find out what's available in your area. I think you- or preferably your building board- may be able to find agencies that simply offer in home visits and help without 'reporting' anything or anyone. Then the agency can handle the brother and the best steps forward. The link was posted in the weekly Carolyn Hax advice chat on the Washington Post, so it's her recommendation, not mine personally, but maybe it can help.

http://www.eldercare.gov/Eldercare.NET/Public/Index.aspx
 

iLander

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Just slip an anonymous note under the brother's door.

The smelly brother is probably hydrophobic. He's afraid of water. Or maybe it's soap. Or whatever.

A discreet note.

Then start hanging those little pine tree car deodorizers all over the hall. :bigsmile:

Maybe they'll take the hint.
 

Enerchi

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Welcome to my world!! this is my job - I deal with this on a daily basis with a variety of clients. I am in Canada and things/agencies may be different and follow different protocols, but in my role, the goal is to get both mom and son healthy and safe in their environment.

For us, we would notify the fire department for a home assessment regarding fire safety - smoke detectors outside each bedroom + kitchen; clear access/egress by 3' minimum; no blocked heat sources; clear balcony for rescue and EMS personnel.

Next - an inspection for infestations - you never know

Mental Health unit either via the local hospital or the police unit (not all hospitals have mobile mental health teams , so sometimes its operated thru the local police agency) and they would do an assessment on the abilities for one or both parties to function on their own - basic things like hygiene, food prep, bills, laundry, etc. and oriented to people place and time. For both, they may benefit from a psycho - geriatric assessment.

Generally, while offensive, odour is not considered a public health hazard. If it is not a noxious gas (and I realize it is intense and horrible, but its still not classified as a "noxious gas"...) then it is "just a smell" and the health department can not act on that. What the health department CAN do, is investigate the health of the 2 tenants. You aren't likely to stir up trouble if you go that route. Different cities call it different things, but you'd be requesting a team in the health department to do a geriatric assessment for health and safety. You can remain anonymous to the tenants you are reporting, but you usually have to leave contact info only, to whomever you are making the referral to. As much information as you can provide is very helpful - names, DOB, contact #, next of kin, superintendants contact info, any agencies that you KNOW are involved... on and on.

What can be done? What happens in most of my cases, is we connect them w community supports - there may or may not be a fee or it could be on a sliding scale - but housekeeping can assist with the interior cleaning/laundry; services may be available to transport to medical appointments; personal support workers could be engaged to assist with bathing for the mom; a psychiatric connection could be made with an independant living team specializing in those with developmental challenges; their medical provider or pharmacist could be advised and may monitor medication and health more closely; the fire department (or the superintendant) could install extra smoke detectors; a 'friendly visitor' could be arranged... those are the kinds of things that may result - and all of those are great to be connected to!

Can you approach them first to see if there is anything you can do to help? to see if there are already any agencies already involved and advise those agencies of any changes you've noticed? could you call the other son to say that you've noticed these XYZ changes and wanted to offer some agencies he may want to link his mom/brother to? I throw those ideas out because that's how we get the bulk of our referrals - people who are kind enough to notice a change but are concerned, they call our health department and then we get involved and do our best to connect clients to the right service.

Sorry for the overload! I guess I really *DO* like my job and want to help people - even those far away!
 

momhappy

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I really don't think that anything can be done that wouldn't cause them greater harm. Have you considered moving?
 

monarch64

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momhappy|1372451519|3473919 said:
I really don't think that anything can be done that wouldn't cause them greater harm. Have you considered moving?

I think that is the knee-jerk response, and I would've suggested it myself (as I'm sure others would have), but Smith mentions that her husband has lived there since 2005 and she since 2007, and they are owners, not renters. Further, she states that selling would be problematic, especially in the warmer months, due to the obvious odors emanating from the residence in question. I respectfully disagree that nothing can be done that wouldn't cause them more harm--there have been several responses with sage advice regarding the situation. My personal opinion is that I agree with Smitcompton that the brother needs to be contacted so he can (hopefully) assist in the matter, after all, it is his family and since he's close by I think that is an indicator that he actually might care about this duo's health and well-being.
 

Enerchi

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momhappy|1372451519|3473919 said:
I really don't think that anything can be done that wouldn't cause them greater harm. Have you considered moving?

That does not help the two older adults that are struggling to manage independently tho.

I am obviously coming at this from a different perspective (that of a nurse who does this on a daily basis and would want to refer them to help) but I don't think moving and avoiding the situation, is in the best interest of anyone.
 

charleston1

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Sorry for the threadjack but Enerchi, I want to thank you for the great job you do = it sounds like you are a Public Health Nurse. Your response to the question was also very insightful and helpful. I am a welfare caseworker and run across some clients as described and often due to huge caseload and scope of job feel guilty for not being able to help more.

Thank you for making a difference in their lives and helping them. :appl: :appl: :appl:
 

momhappy

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Oh, I realize that moving isn't a simple solution. I'm well aware of what's involved - I own a home too and the thought of selling, although possible, seems almost impossible. It was just a thought. I mean, if the two are truly struggling, then perhaps a report might get them some help? However, she posted that the mother was still sharp mentally and just because her son smells bad, doesn't necessarily mean that they need help. This, of course, is just another thought, and it's entirely possible that they are struggling and do in fact need help. Either way, I feel for your situation - it's a tough one for sure.
 

tammy77

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I hope that some help can be received by the mother and son. I'm sure that if she is of sound mind but her body is failing to the point of being unable to keep herself and her home clean, it has to be very difficult for her. :(sad I highly doubt she's able to get physical assistance from her disabled son, even if she would be comfortable with it.

ETA: I do feel for your smelly situation too though. We're in a condo and our downstairs neighbors smell SO TERRIBLE. It's like mothballs marinated in I don't know what - some kind of strong smelling spices. The emphasis is on mothballs though. :knockout: It's so bad that it comes up through the floors where there are cabinets and plumbing. I've found odor absorbers that do a decent job, but it's still there. It was horrible when I had morning sickness. :sick:
 

junebug17

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Sorry for this tough situation! I feel badly for your neighbors - I'm wondering how well the disabled son can care for his elderly mother. You say she is sharp mentally (which is great) but how is she physically? I wonder who is doing the cooking and cleaning. I realize you are not responsible for this couple, I guess I'm just kind of concerned for them. I think this subject is hitting a nerve for me because I have an elderly mother who needs care. They might be doing ok. I realize you have no way of knowing about any of this!

Ok, I'm rambling a bit - I think I would contact the brother, since he seems to be keeping in touch with them and is probably responsible for their care (hopefully). I would tell him about the odor and about the occasional screaming and yelling that you hear. The elderly mother must be present during it, and I don't think it's right that she is subjected to it and the the Harvard brother should be aware that it occurs.
 

Enerchi

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Charleston1 - Thank you!! That's very sweet of you, and yes, I am a public health nurse :halo: Any connection you can make with a helping community resource, is a good one, so never feel bad about not doing enough - its not your scope of expertise, so don't feel guilty. Refer onwards and know you've done what you can do. Just being alert and aware of those in need, and then making an anonymous call, can be the little 'ooomph' that person needed to be connected with help. You have pretty big challenges in your job, too!

In my experience with these situations - it is SUPER tricky to manage/deal with/control all the factors that go into living situations like these. Family dynamics, finances, emotions, "slights & fights" that are years in the making, denial, guilt... oy vey, its a hodge podge of everything and it is not something I'd want to voluntarily get involved in, at a neighbour level. I would imagine, Smith, that you are also thinking of what's best for ALL in the building - other neighbours and what they may find disturbing (odour, hearing the yelling, wondering 'who's going to help them?'); fire safety for all residents and just not being able to ignore this risky situation of 2 compromised adults living without assistance.

I still stand by the advice to contact someone in a position to help them - here, it would be the Health Department - but I don't know how the US services are structured. Is there an Adult Protective Agency (I only know that term from watching another work related show - "Hoarders"!) They would be able to assess and coordinate a multi disciplinary response for these 2. Its funny - its saturday morning on the computer, and I'm mentally planning who and where I'd be calling when I get the referral on my desk when I get back to work!! lol! My mind never stops...!)

As for the brother - touch and go with that but at least its a contact and you're mind would be clear that you did all that you could do, by advising him of the situation and the concerns of yourself and your building neighbours regarding what you've been noticing. You could offer to call the departments for him, offer to visit his family with him... Sometimes having an 'outsider' present helps the 'insider' to be more effective.

Good luck - I hope you keep us posted!
 

momhappy

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^You offer some great advice, enerchi, and it sounds like you do a wonderful job, which Im sure can be quite difficult at times.
 

partgypsy

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You think you are going to be "mean" if you contact authorities about this situation, but it may be a case of neglect. Not washing often, whether it is in the case of a mentally disabled person, or elderly is considered a sign of neglect. It may also have to do with his mental illness. I second the idea of contacting health authorities (not sure who that would be) to make a confidential inquiry to have someone check on them. As far as fire hazard, it is within your right to contact the landlord as ask if all the apartments have been checked for working smoke alarms, etc.
 

Smith1942

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Wow! Thank you SO much for all the hep and advice, especially Enerchi in her professional capacity!

So many responses are spot-on. Yes - we think there is hoarding, no - the elderly mother should not have to put up with the shouting, yes - I agree that the brother may not be much help since he is letting the situation carry on, and it's got worse since 2007, and no - I don't want to move and be chased out of my home, which I love.

It will take me a while to parse these responses and look up the links, and find some appropriate agencies.

Enerchi - you're in Canada and I always had the impression that the government is more British than American in style, i.e. much, much softer and gentler. Once you kick something off here, it's like authority-bootcamp. But I have a sneaky feeling that you're right and that these two might need some specialist elder care.

Who knows, maybe the brother has tried and the mother refuses help. My grandmother was just like that - wouldn't have anybody in the house. She was as sharp as a needle up till the end of her life, and the lady opposite is the same. She calls a spade a spade, that's for sure, and I think if she didn't want help then there's nothing the brother could do to persuade her otherwise. I'm just speculating here, of course.

I'll talk with my husband to see what we should do, and see what recommendations for help the condo association's lawyer can give.

I wonder if we should contact the brother first, or not? I'm concerned that if we do, and he rejects everything we have to say and is angry, when the authorities come he and his family will know exactly who's responsible, and even though help is at hand, they may not appreciate it. Of course, THEY don't care that the brother and other are stinking up the entire hallway and parts of our apartment and affecting our home's value. I expect they'd all like things to stay just as they are.
 

sonnyjane

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Smith1942|1372534897|3474407 said:
I wonder if we should contact the brother first, or not? I'm concerned that if we do, and he rejects everything we have to say and is angry, when the authorities come he and his family will know exactly who's responsible, and even though help is at hand, they may not appreciate it. Of course, THEY don't care that the brother and other are stinking up the entire hallway and parts of our apartment and affecting our home's value. I expect they'd all like things to stay just as they are.

Yes, that would be my reason for not wanting to confront them first. If it goes poorly, then they know exactly who complained (and exactly where you live).

If it is indeed hoarding, that is quite dangerous, regardless of your proximity to a fire station. If it's an apartment full of newspapers, boxes, etc., all it would take is a small spark to cause the whole thing to go up in minutes. It's a fire hazard that affects not just them but your entire building. Again, if it is hoarding, they will likely come by to do an inspection and if they find that it is a hazard, they will give a deadline of when they must be compliant. That's the point where hopefully the other brother would step in and help.
 

Smith1942

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Sonny, you are so right re. the hoarding. I never even thought of the possibility about lots of papers and their kindling potential. That is scary, especially since our escape route would be blocked off due to their apt running behind the length of the wall that leads to the fire stairs.

This is why we think there are hoarders: In our downstairs lobby is a table that everyone calls "the swap table". If you have an item that you don't want but which might be usable by someone else, you put it on the swap table. Well, any old piece of crap that is put on that table disappears. I put an absolute ton of clothes on there once and another time about 200 books - all gone. Once, as a test, we put a manky, rusty shower curtain pole on there, and it too vanished. It's only now, quite a long while later, with the smell and everything, that we suspect the son is a hoarder.

My husband and I have made a decision to contact the relevant services next week, and not to talk to the brother first. After all, the brother is either happy to let the situation continue, or his mother refuses all help. If the latter, perhaps he can't bring himself to ring the services when his mother doesn't want it. Perhaps it will take outsiders - us - to get them some help.

I will have to do some more research to determine which agency to contact. It might be Boston Inspectional Services, but I will look into it further.

It will be interesting to see what happens. For all we know, they might say that the apartment is perfectly clean and tidy but the son just needs help washing. As Enerchi mentioned, since a smell isn't an offence, they might have their place checked out and then refuse all other social services and the smell will continue. But if we could at least have a fire assessment risk, that would put our minds at rest on that score, at least.

I think we have no choice. It's our apartment alone that is close to theirs, so we alone can see that some kind of intervention is needed. Imagine if the building caught fire from their apt when we were away and others in the building died, when we could have done something re. the fire risk but didn't.
 

Octavia

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Smith1942, when I lived in a condo in Philly, the city mandated that the management enter every unit once a year for fire alarm inspections. It didn't matter whether the unit was owner- or renter-occupied; they just left a note under the door about a week in advance saying they were coming, and then left another note to let you know when it was done if nobody was home at the time. I don't imagine you have a similar ordinance there? Even if not, maybe you could get the management to do something like that (maybe ask them if the building's insurance requires or would give a discount if they do it?) so they could assess the state of the neighbors' unit while they're inside. If anything looks wrong, then the management could make the referral to social services and keep the names of other residents out of it? Just an idea, but if you're already talking to the association's lawyer it could be worth a try.
 

Smith1942

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Hi Octavia, thanks for the suggestions. No, we don't have mandated fire inspections inside the actual units of owners here in Boston. I've been here since 2007 and have never heard of a city-ordered interior inspection. Sounds like a great idea, though.

The management company won't help. They're useless and will tell me to consult our condo board, which comprises people who don't live on our floor and probably therefore won't see much of a problem. The woman I talked to WAS on the board, but it was very much a casual chat in passing, and she said she'd mention it to the lawyer next time she saw him. So nothing formal has taken place, nor with any urgency.

This afternoon my husband was out in the city and he bumped into a guy who lives on our floor at the opposite end, and apparently he didn't seem to appreciate the gravity of the situation, according to my husband. The two flats in question, i.e. ours and that of the vulnerable neighbours, are alone together at the end of a long skinny corridor. Therefore, no other residents appreciate the problem like we do as it's only our place and our private-ish little corridor that smells, and only us who can hear the occasional explosion from the son. I don't think any of it travels down, as the floors are thick concrete. We're on the top floor.
 

ChristineRose

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I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis, and nobody's qualified to make a diagnosis over the Internet, but he sounds autistic to me. Every single thing you described screams autism.

I'm not sure there is anything you can do actually. People are allowed to act in a way that seems bizarre and stupid to the rest of us. If there is an actual dangerous act, if they are doing something that will actually harm themselves, you can take them to court and get them declared incompetent.

If they are violating some sort of building code you can get an injunction forcing them to deal with that. They will hate you forever, just so you know.

If they are breaking the laws of the condo association you can do whatever the association agreement (which the owners of the unit would have signed) says.

Social services will offer them help, but cannot force them to do anything unless they are actually being dangerous or breaking a law. The obvious solution would be to put him into a home that specializes in the autistic. Waiting list will be five years. Depends you where you live though.

Private groups may or may not be willing to help them. I'm not a fan of private charities because I've seem them show favoritism towards "their" people time and again. These folks may not have "their" people and they may not trust a bunch of strangers who want to invade their home.
 

Smith1942

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Christine, I'm not advocating interfering with their lives or their medical care to the extent that you describe. To reiterate what I've said above, Enerchi has advised that there is probably not much that can be done about the smell, even though they make our apartment smell through two front doors, but as others have pointed out, there is the risk of a fire hazard with the potential hoarding.

If I were reassured about the fire hazard, I'd feel much better. This thread has concentrated my mind on that hazard, which is potentially very dangerous, unlike a smell, and it's the only one that really matters to the safety of the building's residents and especially us, since their apartment is between us and the safety exit.

All manner of scenarios are possible. I haven't seen the brother in quite a long while, so maybe they've fallen out or maybe he's moved away. If this is the case, the two of them might be really struggling. Also, neither I not the woman on the condo board have seen much of the mother lately, and normally she sits outside the fire station with her friends when it's hot. If we can get a fire inspection, and if they happen to find that the mother and son are in a terrible state in one way or another, Boston Inspectional Services will connect them with the right elder care services.

Regarding the son's health conditions, whatever they may be, that's his brother's department, assuming the brother is still around. I am not qualified to speculate on what his condition might be.

When I started this thread I didn't want to contact any services but my mind has certainly been concentrated on the fire risk by the responses. And the fact that they may hate us can't let us be cowed into accepting the situation and just hoping a fire won't happen.

I disagree that there's nothing we can do in terms of fire hazards - there is a section on the services website about hoarding and how dangerous it can be for the occupants and the adjacent units. The services can request a fire inspection, I think, if someone suspects that the residents are not safe in their own home.
 

kenny

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Smith1942

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Funny :) It's really sad, really though. Your post reminds me that in six years of living here, I've seen the son attempt to use the washing machine once, and that time he was doing it wrong - washing the clothes in the machine instead of letting the machine do it.

Oh God, I've just remembered something the condo board lady told me. A year or two ago, the mother had roasted a whole lamb for Easter, which is tradition in their part of the Old Country. She gave the lamb's head to the son and told him to throw it into the city trash. Well, he didn't. He put it in a bag, downstairs in the basement where the washers and dryers are. The lady, who happens to live in the basement flat, and her husband noticed a bad smell a few days later. She said she got the shock of her life when she looked in that bag. Apparently the mother was as mad as all hell that the son hadn't carried out her instructions, so it seems she has some sense of the normal activities of daily living.

I feel really sorry for him, though. He can't help the state he's in. Sometimes I see him around, and occasionally he goes to the local pool. He's always alone. I've never seen him with a single friend, not even his brother. :cry:
 

luv2sparkle

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My first thought was, are you sure the mom is still alive? Could account for the increased stench.
 

Smith1942

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Luv - we wondered that, but I heard her talking last night. The stench is the same as always, just gradually getting worse over the years.

I can't believe that the mother and brother let the son go round looking and smelling so bad. He wears these t-shirts that are about ten sizes too small, stretched over his stomach, and his hair is so greasy it looks wet. There's no way my family would let one of their own go round like that; they would get the person the help they need. No wonder the poor son has no friends.

The brother should get him sorted out and his lack of effectiveness has put my husband and myself in a very awkward position. Getting someone help can be done, even with a difficult relative. My grandmother was about the most stubborn, proud woman you could ever meet, and refused her whole life to go into a home. Well, when the time came my aunt and father did get her into one; there was no other option for her safety.

Someone here mentioned that the smell is a sign of neglect, and yes - the brother has neglected to get the son the care that he needs. It's just dreadful. My sister and I have never been on good terms but even so, there is no way I'd let her suffer like that.
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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Smith1942|1372604511|3474745 said:
Luv - we wondered that, but I heard her talking last night. The stench is the same as always, just gradually getting worse over the years.

I can't believe that the mother and brother let the son go round looking and smelling so bad. He wears these t-shirts that are about ten sizes too small, stretched over his stomach, and his hair is so greasy it looks wet. There's no way my family would let one of their own go round like that; they would get the person the help they need. No wonder the poor son has no friends.

The brother should get him sorted out and his lack of effectiveness has put my husband and myself in a very awkward position. Getting someone help can be done, even with a difficult relative. My grandmother was about the most stubborn, proud woman you could ever meet, and refused her whole life to go into a home. Well, when the time came my aunt and father did get her into one; there was no other option for her safety.

Someone here mentioned that the smell is a sign of neglect, and yes - the brother has neglected to get the son the care that he needs. It's just dreadful. My sister and I have never been on good terms but even so, there is no way I'd let her suffer like that.

OP - I feel for you in this situation, I do - but I would very careful with playing the blame game here - you are assuming the mother and the Harvard brother have any control over the son, when clearly they do not. Personal hygiene and choice of clothing are within the control of the adult - there is nothing in what you have posted to indicate either the mother or the brother have a conservatorship/guardianship over the son... without that, they do not have the right to force the son to bathe more regularly or to wear clothing you deem more appropriate.

In your comparison, you say you would not allow your sister to suffer like that - barring a conservator/guardian situation, would you be willing and able to physically force her into a shower and to wash her yourself, and to face any legal consequences of such action should your sister be able to press charges? Would you be willing to impose your sense of style on her?

Older people in particular lose a sense of smell, and often grow fearful of showering or bathing due to the risk of accident.

The son does seem to have some problems but whether they are to the degree where he is a danger to himself or to others can only be assessed by a professional. And if his problems are not to that degree, then family members are extremely limited in what they can do to assist him if he chooses not to accept their suggestions and/or assistance.

I think you are wise to concentrate on the hoarding/fire safety issue - it may well be that the professionals handling those inspections/consultations will recognize additional issues requiring intervention and will make the necessary referrals/arrangements.
 

Smith1942

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Joined
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marymm|1372607641|3474768 said:
Smith1942|1372604511|3474745 said:
Luv - we wondered that, but I heard her talking last night. The stench is the same as always, just gradually getting worse over the years.

I can't believe that the mother and brother let the son go round looking and smelling so bad. He wears these t-shirts that are about ten sizes too small, stretched over his stomach, and his hair is so greasy it looks wet. There's no way my family would let one of their own go round like that; they would get the person the help they need. No wonder the poor son has no friends.

The brother should get him sorted out and his lack of effectiveness has put my husband and myself in a very awkward position. Getting someone help can be done, even with a difficult relative. My grandmother was about the most stubborn, proud woman you could ever meet, and refused her whole life to go into a home. Well, when the time came my aunt and father did get her into one; there was no other option for her safety.

Someone here mentioned that the smell is a sign of neglect, and yes - the brother has neglected to get the son the care that he needs. It's just dreadful. My sister and I have never been on good terms but even so, there is no way I'd let her suffer like that.

OP - I feel for you in this situation, I do - but I would very careful with playing the blame game here - you are assuming the mother and the Harvard brother have any control over the son, when clearly they do not. Personal hygiene and choice of clothing are within the control of the adult - there is nothing in what you have posted to indicate either the mother or the brother have a conservatorship/guardianship over the son... without that, they do not have the right to force the son to bathe more regularly or to wear clothing you deem more appropriate.

In your comparison, you say you would not allow your sister to suffer like that - barring a conservator/guardian situation, would you be willing and able to physically force her into a shower and to wash her yourself, and to face any legal consequences of such action should your sister be able to press charges? Would you be willing to impose your sense of style on her?

Older people in particular lose a sense of smell, and often grow fearful of showering or bathing due to the risk of accident.

The son does seem to have some problems but whether they are to the degree where he is a danger to himself or to others can only be assessed by a professional. And if his problems are not to that degree, then family members are extremely limited in what they can do to assist him if he chooses not to accept their suggestions and/or assistance.

I think you are wise to concentrate on the hoarding/fire safety issue - it may well be that the professionals handling those inspections/consultations will recognize additional issues requiring intervention and will make the necessary referrals/arrangements.

Well, I'm not putting a notice up in the lobby blaming the mother or anything! I'm merely venting my opinion right here in this forum, about how sad it all is. I feel so sorry for the son - he's really helpless. I'm guessing his shouting fits are part of his condition. Anyway, yes, I'm focusing on the fire hazard, as it's the only thing that really matters to all the other residents in the building. And then, if there are other issues and the fire inspection wants to attempt to connect them with some help, then that's their call.
 
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