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Depth% question for cushion cuts

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xraydoc

Rough_Rock
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Feb 16, 2005
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This is my first post. Hopefully oldminer or someone else can offer some advice here...

I am in the process of upgrading my wife''s diamond to a large cushion cut, in the 4-5 ct range. We have looked at several stones and found two we really liked. Both have depth approx 58%, one has table 66% the other 58%. Both are GIA certified so there is no other cut information available. One is F/VS1/no culet/no fluor and the other is G/VS2/sm culet/med blue fluor. Both of these stones have l/w ratios of 1.00 - 1.01. One is more squarish, the the other is more rounded. Spread is good for both. Each stone is eye clean, and the small culet can only be seen through the table with a 10x loupe. Symmetry seemed pretty good (for a big cushion-- obviously these aren''t ideal cut H&A stones).

With the rather low depth% I was concerned that they would look glassy or have a fisheye. But neither stone seemed so to my eye, or my wife''s better eye. We looked at them indoors under diffuse light, under a halogen light, and also outdoors in the shade and sun. They seemed to sparkle as much as a few other stones with more typical depth percentages.

How concerning is the 58% depth (and the 66% table on one of them) ? I did notice that Scan D.N. "ideal" was about 58% depth and 58% table -- but of course that is for a RB. Still since these stones (one in particular) are faceted much like a RB it is a bit reassuring that theys are not poorly cut.




Thanks
 
There are H&A cushions out there, and some cut to "Excellent" symmetry and ... what not. All in all sufficient proof that cushions can well be just as brilliant as those ideal rounds after all.

As much as I understand from your post the shape of the two is quite different - enough so that the facet pattern is not the same (there are quite a few all called "cushion cut"). It wouldn''t be completely fare (IMO) to give a table&depth rule of thumb for all those cuts... The AGA cut standard (see under "knowledge/fancy shapes" on top of page) refrained.

With different shapes in hand, I would be looking to size, and brilliance (Ideal Scope anyone ?), girdle outline (how thick are they ? I would definitely like thin-medium and as even as feasible) and crown height.

The "numbers" try to pin down an acceptable interval for spread and predict brilliance. With the stones at hand, both details are clearly visible - no need the guess them. What else are numbers good for ?

Those you mention 58/58 and 58/66 sound ok to me... asuming 58/58 reffers to the roundish stone (judging relative to ovals hoping the facet pattern is brilliant-like, but... you know that and I do not) and the other to the squareish (that might be a modified radiant version - is it ?).

It would be nice to see Ideal Scope pictures - even if there is no hair-splitting standard for them (only refference images + common sense), they describe pretty well what a diamond does to light even without a numbers-based standard.

Just my 0.2, of course. Home some of this helps
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Can I ask what the polish and symmetry grades are?
 
Thanks for the input.

58/58 is indeed the roundish stone. It is a "cushion brilliant" while the other more aquarish stone is a "modified cushion brilliant" with a different facet pattern on the pavilion (see images below). Symmetry is "good" for both, one has "very good" polish the other "good". The roundish stone has very thin to ex thick girdle, squarish stone has thin to very thick girdle. Both are faceted.

I do realize there are true H&A squares out there, but none are in this size range to my knowledge. Biggest I've seen is a 3.5ct H stone on Good Old Gold. It doesn't have a great spread and we want to stay in color grades E-G.


cushion brilliant
cushio1.jpg


cushion modified brilliant

Jon's%20Cushion%20Inclusion%20Map.jpg

 
cushions come in all shapes and depths... my only remark is the 66% table

MY comment= TO BIG OF A| TABLE
 

I wish there was some clear info out there. I'm still sticking to my theory that the plots with this diagram (which I know are stock) and the vg-ex are the "modern" cuts that vendors like DBOF and NiceIce and GOG refer to, which will generally have at least vg symmetry and polish and skinny facets on the cert... Who the heck knows, I could be totally wrong. This is also called a "brilliant cushion" on the cert. The facets are like a round- thin and elongated.





I don't think the "faceting" on the plot is indicative of a good cut anway...





I'm not loving the 58 depth and 66 table. But then again, you've seen the stone!

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55422


modern.jpg
 
xraydoc,

I am also looking for a 4ct cushion, except I want a more elongated stone. I saw a 4.02 with the faceting pattern listed as cushion modern brilliant. I thought it was more brilliant than the modern brilliant pattern. But then again, I am trying to educate myself on this cut, but there is not a lot of info out there. Like everyone says, you just have to see the stones. Where are you looking, if I could ask? Online or B&M?. Please keep posting info about your search. I have questions also about depth and table size. Very confusing. GRRR!
 
This diagram shows a different "cushion brilliant" cut pattern that is what Good Old Gold describes as a "Square H&A". I have seen a few Kotlar cushion cuts which I think are this style. They were very nice, but my wife didn''t think they were clearly superior to the other non-branded cushion cuts.

I was also concerned about the 66% table% on the squarish stone. The rounder stone with the smaller table was my favorite, and it is noticeably larger too. Its picture is attached, the loose stone is placed atop a random setting under mixed halogen and fluorescent light, and taken with a cheap camera. It looked a lot better in person.

diagvs2.jpg
 
"This diagram shows a different "cushion brilliant" cut pattern that is what Good Old Gold describes as a "Square H&A"."

Confused- it is or isn't the same as the 'H&A' cushion (and like the one I posted above)? But you know what..WHO THE HECK CARES!!!!!

THAT IS A SPECTACULAR STONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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and btw- I love that 'random' setting.
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I think this is the facet pattern for the "cushion brilliants" which are the "square H&A"

3dsarintop.gif
3dsarinbottom.gif


While this is the pattern for the generic "cushion brilliants" like the roundish stone I saw

cushio1.jpg


And this is the pattern for the generic "cushion modified brilliants" like the squarish stone I saw

Jon's%20Cushion%20Inclusion%20Map.jpg


I've seen several other facet patterns on certificates of other cushion cut diamonds.



I agree that the facet pattern is not the important factor in overall appearance of the stone, based on the samples we've seen of each type.
 
The first facet pattern is not only for the H&A but for the "modern cushions"...Trust me, I know, I have one (not a H&A, a "modern"!
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(but about 1/2 the size of yours!!! LOL)..want a baguette?


What I really like about your pic is that there don't seem to be any dark areas that I can't stand. It really looks like it has fire too!!! I would have no issue with the table if it looks half as good in person as it does in the picture!!
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This is the cert to my stone. It is not a H&A. You'll also notice that the H&A cushions are way deeper...
Here is the link to my three ring...all three have the same plot...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-three-stone-cushion-is-here.22964/=

I'm looking at the pic of your stone, and it is magnificant!
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so who the heck cares!!! :)
I would never turn down a beautiful stone b/c the "numbers" weren't what I thought they could be..

mycert.jpg
 
LOL...but that means, I get to wear the ring....RIGHT!!!!!!!!
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Here is another link from GOG. The funny thing is, though, the top pic is a "modern" cushion (see his description too) but he lists only the traditional cushion facet patters. Bad boy J-man!
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http://www.goodoldgold.com/cushion.htm

I don't really think any of this matters anyway...you really need to use your eyes when it comes to fancies. A lightscope image wouldn't hurt either. It looks like a beautiful stone.
 
Thanks for clarifying that. Your stone is gorgeous. I cannot find any of the modern brilliant cushions in the 3.5 - 5 ct sizes with G or better color.

The pic I posted is the stone with the 58% table. You are correct, it didn''t have any obvious dark areas and since it has a 1:1.00 ratio there is no bowtie.

I don''t have any pictures of the stone with the 66% table and we were not able to directly compare them.
 
I really think that your stone is beautiful and that there is no reason to look any more if this one is as beautiful in person- which you said it is...which is hard to believe since it's already awesome in the pic!!!

BTW- Dave Atlas suggested using the cut grade chart for the round when the cushion was square. SO.....58 depth IS in the 1A mark!!!! And SO is the table!!!! You might not see many out there with 58 depth and 58 table...but that's not b/c YOURS is the one that's not cut right! To the contrary I'm sure. I'm so in love with this stone. Marry ME!????? LOL

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a nicer looking stone....especially in that super duper ct weight.

Magnificant specimen!
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Post that sucker in the Show Me thread and watch em DROOL...

And I have to say that setting is really making come back for moremoremore!
 
xraydoc....i think that is a very nice looking stone as well.... moremoremore is right, you will have a hard time finding such a nice looking diamond in that carat weight. i think you should seriously consider purchasing it, if that is indeed the size you are looking for. best of luck!!
 
He could buy it for us belle!
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I''ll share...really
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Mark T. will be examining the stone in NYC in the next few days. Unless he finds a major problem with it, we will buy it. I've had to twist my wife's arm a bit because of the small culet and med blue fluoresence, but I think she finally realizes that neither is really an issue. The med blue may actually be beneficial since this is a G color.

Here is a pic of the setting we will get. It is shown with a 6.46 I/VS2. So our diamond will result in a slightly smaller center stone which I think is a good thing. It is under 5 ct but measures like a 5.25 with its nice spread

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edmsetting1.jpg
 
I''m sorry...I JUST WET MY FREAKIN PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MEDIUM BLUE G. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG.
BUY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And why the heck didn''t you say it was Mark T!!


OK- DETAILS. NOW. How long have you been married? Is this an upgrade? From what? DETAILS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! LOL
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We will be married five years in Aug. Yeah, she''s not making out too bad as she will be turning 27 next month...
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I was a resident when I bought my wife''s current ring -- a 1.73 princess, VVS2, I (but came with a suspect "AGL-USA" certificate and is more like a J or K) in a plain platinum solitaire setting. We are going to exchange it at the store we purchased it at for a pair of earrings. I doubt I could get much for it on auction or consignment because of the non-GIA/EGL certificate. It is a very, very clean stone but color isn''t great and it looks a touch cloudly at times.
 
Earrings AND a 5 ct cushion...AND she hasn''t hit the wall at 30 yet LOL? (I"m an old hag at 31 1/2)....LOL....Congrats to you both! We demand pix on the hand btw.
 
i am speechless.........
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also wanted to add my congrats....best wishes for many more wonderful years together!!
(and bigger diamonds!!?
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)
 
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