Dear waterlilly

[Prana]

For the sake of not hijacking the 21 things post.

Thank you for calling me out on my ''ignorance''. I truly had no idea that my beautiful dog did not deserve a loving home just because he was not from a shelter.

We wanted an American Bulldog. A bully breed. A breed that has been so messed up from over breeding the only way to GUARANTEE having one without a slew of health and mental problems, was to buy from a breeder.

Our dog is 2.5 years old. We chose not to neuter him because we do plan on titling him, showing him, and making him a stud. We would like to continue providing lovers of bully breeds with healthy stable bulldogs. If we do not title him or stud him out, he will receive a vasectomy. For the record, he is calm, docile, well behaved and very much loved by all that meet him.

I fully noted my support of adopting pets. I also stated that it was not the right choice for everyone, as in our case.

You are the ignorant one.

 

[Prana]

And now I want to apologize for calling you ignorant, because I realize that is probably not the case. I''m sure you have a lot of caring and compassion in you doing the work that you do.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

girlface, I''m obviously not waterlily, but I wanted to respond to say I 100% support your decision to go with a breeder to source your puppy. I too am an owner of a "bully" breed (a chow chow) and I believe to be a responsible owner of one of these dogs you have to be in the picture from as early on as possible. Dogs of these unfairly labeled breeds are beautiful, sensitive, loving creatures. As loving as my neighbors golden retriever. They just take a little more work sometimes.

In my opinion it''s WAY too risky to adopt these breeds from shelters because often times they''ve been abused and neglected. Because they''re so sensitive, this unkind treatment affects them on a very deep, psychological level and that''s where the risk comes into play. As you know, these breeds need to be researched and screened for temperament and negative traits before adopting them into your family. It''s the first step towards being a responsible owner.

My chow chow D.O.G. is technically an aggressive dog according to the definition of a chow chow. He''s unfairly judged because of a preconceived notion of aggression, a trait that he simply doesn''t have. He''s amazing around children and other animals and even in my pregnant state is not territorial or aggressive towards people. I choose to walk him in a manner that''s respectful to the breed''s reputation because it makes OTHER people more comfortable around him, not because I have to in order to keep him under control.

I''m sure you deal with these same issues on a daily basis. I just wanted to let you know that you''re not alone in your choice to adopt through a breeder or your choice of breed.

*Note, I''m using the general term "adopt" to acknowledge that we adopted this animal into our family unit. He is our fur child, regardless of the money that exchanged hands when he came into our lives.

 

[Prana]

HH thank you for your post. I really appreciate it.

We do face a lot of prejudice regarding our choice of pet, especially because he is intact. People assume he is a monster that will eat them and tear apart their shi-tzu. The reality of it is that he is a 90lb wimp-baby with testicles. He gets barked at, bitten, lunged at and snapped at by dogs on almost a daily basis if I walk him in public, and he cowers in the face of adversity. lol. Yet he still is perceived as the bad guy

We had our dog from 8 weeks old. We were able to mold him into the loving, docile sweetheart that he is. The sickest part in all of this is that people continue to breed these dogs poorly, giving them their bad reputation and bad manners.

I don''t care what anybody thinks about my choices, as far as I''m concerned, I did the responsible thing by doing my research before hand and making an educated purchase when we chose our baby.

 

[lilyfoot]

Great post, HH.

I comletely agree that adopting from a shelter/rescue isn''t right for everyone, or every situation.

 

[lilyfoot]

Date: 6/30/2010 8:51:28 PM
Author: girlface
HH thank you for your post. I really appreciate it.

We do face a lot of prejudice regarding our choice of pet, especially because he is intact. People assume he is a monster that will eat them and tear apart their shi-tzu. The reality of it is that he is a 90lb wimp-baby with testicles. He gets barked at, bitten, lunged at and snapped at by dogs on almost a daily basis if I walk him in public, and he cowers in the face of adversity. lol. Yet he still is perceived as the bad guy

We had our dog from 8 weeks old. We were able to mold him into the loving, docile sweetheart that he is. The sickest part in all of this is that people continue to breed these dogs poorly, giving them their bad reputation and bad manners.

I don''t care what anybody thinks about my choices, as far as I''m concerned, I did the responsible thing by doing my research before hand and making an educated purchase when we chose our baby.

Oh my gosh, this reminds me of a couple of days ago. My husband and I took "his" (the dog lives with his mom) pit mix, Tyson, to the vet. My husband was sitting outside, by the office door, with Tyson. A lady was walking up to the door, holding her small dog in her arms. Tyson took one step towards them, and the lady got a look of terror in her eyes, covered her dog with her other hand, and hurried to get into the office. The walls are made of glass, so I was watching - and I was just laughing to myself. Tyson is literally the biggest baby you will ever meet, but of course, if you don''t know him, he looks "scary".

 

[Puppmom]

Another poster that purchased from a breeder... For the record, I can understand how some like waterlily, who is probably far too often exposed to the terrible things that happen to dogs that aren''t well cared for, would be sensitive to the subject. I''m sure she''s used to encountering lots of people who are dense about animal care and just jumped to conclusions about you.

Anywho, I decided to get my dog from a breeder for two reasons:

- DH and I were total novices and wanted to have a dog from puppy-hood so we could train. We weren''t sure we had enough knowledge to "re-train".
- We thought it was important to find the RIGHT dog for US and this, in my opinion, is more difficult when you rescue

We are proud to have a healthy, well-behaved 2.5 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback. We put A LOT of work into getting where we are now. If everyone who "adopted" a dog did the same, we wouldn''t even be having this conversation.

I am not against rescuing and would totally do it now that we''re more experienced dog owners.

To each his own, but I wanted to come show you a bit of support.

HH, lots of people are intimidated by our dog because of his size. I didn''t get this at first (or the fact that not everyone thinks he''s the most adorable thing on the face of the planet!). Now, when I walk past people, I put him on a short lead. I''ve realized that some people are really nervous around him. It took a couple of subtle gasps and people pulling their children to the side for me to get it.

 

[merilenda]

I am a huge supporter of shelter animals - I volunteer at my local shelter and all of my kitties have come from shelters. However, I think that when you''re talking about dogs, it''s a different issue. FI and I would like to add a dog to our family in the future (say, when we have a fenced-in yard) and we will consider all the options at that time. Most likely, we will decide on a particular breed and then purchase a puppy from a reputable breeder. I have seen very sweet, quiet dogs in the shelter that I would definitely consider, but it can hard to tell how they''ll act in a home environment (especially if they haven''t lived in one for a while or ever).

Don''t get me wrong - shelter dogs can be wonderful, and I am all for rescuing pets. But from someone who regularly walks dogs in my shelter, I can tell you that they are not for everyone. It can be very hit or miss, and you generally don''t know what you''re getting - especially with a puppy. This still doesn''t stop me from wanting to take home about 15 dogs with me every time I volunteer.

 

[Haven]

We have a Pitbull/American Bulldog mix from a shelter. We adopted her at over one year of age. She had some aggression issues with certain other dogs when we adopted her, and it has taken over two years of very consistent, serious, dedicated training on OUR parts to train her as well as we have. She was never the instigator, but she responded to other dogs who were either aggressive or scared by growling and attempting to bite. She''s never bitten a dog, but when we first adopted her there were some instances that looked like it could have happened.

We can now walk her off leash anywhere without a problem. She stays right at our side the entire time. She does not jump on people or bark when people come to our door, in our home, or walk past our house. She is the sweetest, most affectionate dog I have ever known. She has always been extremely good with children so that''s never been a problem.

We take her to the dog beach to swim, and she''s wonderful. She no longer responds to other dogs when they are aggressive with her, but that doesn''t mean that she won''t ever do it again in the future, and I''m not silly enough to think that she''s cured of her aggression. Training her has been an exhausting, time consuming, emotional, and expensive experience. It''s also been wonderful and rewarding, and I feel that I''m a better person for having gone through all this training.

That being said, the WORST thing that can happen to shelter dogs like mine is for them to be adopted by people who do not have the time, energy, desire, or money to properly train them. Not only does it put those and other dogs at risk for physical harm, but it''s likely that those poor dogs will be brought back to the shelter, given away to people who intend to use them for horrible things like dog fighting, or worse. It also just perpetuates the negative stereotypes that so many people have about these breeds when inadequate owners bring them around other dogs.

The amount of dogs who are "returned" to shelters because their owners didn''t have the desire or commitment to properly train them sickens me. People adopt dogs before they have children, laugh when the dogs nip because it''s "cute", and then return the poor things when the baby comes around. That also sickens me.

I''d much rather see people get dogs from reputable breeders when they know they aren''t going to be able to really give a shelter dog the structure, rehabilitation, training, everything else that he is going to need. I think it takes an extremely committed owner to adopt a shelter dog with aggression issues, and unfortunately, so many shelter dogs HAVE aggression issues. That''s just not what everyone wants to sign up for when they adopt a dog, and that is OKAY.

Adopting from a BAD breeder, well that''s another story. Supporting puppy mills and the like is horrible. But adopting from a reputable breeder, that doesn''t bother me one bit. It''s much better to be informed and know what type of dog you can handle, and adopt accordingly.

(Sorry for the rant-like post. I didn''t intend for it to come out that way. I just know from experience that properly training a dog with aggression issues, or even just a very strong breed in general, is hard. And I hate it when I see people take the responsibility lightly. Nothing good ever comes to dogs who are adopted by people who don''t know what they''re getting into.)

NOW, I want pictures of these pups!

 

[Prana]

Thanks for the support! I always feel ''judged'' because we did not buy from a shelter.

Puppmom-like you, DH and I were novices, and wanted the chance to raise a blank slate, so to speak. I also didn''t feel like we had the knowledge to retrain.

And as a side note, for anyone who is interested, American bulldogs originate in England, and are grouped into the Mastiff category. They were bred as farming dogs. They were used for herding cattle, guarding farms and hunting- animals such as fox and rabbits. Unfortunately, they were also used in the disgusting sport of bull bating, which was outlawed in England in about 1835. The short, wrinkly bulldogs that most people are familiar with now are what was created from re-breeding the American Bulldog. American Bulldogs were actually on the verge of ''extinction'', so to speak, until a few loyal to the breed started to bring them back again.

 

[Prana]

.

 

[Puppmom]

Haven, it must be such a rewarding feeling to know you changed your dog''s life. I know it must have been HARD work.

Now, here''s a pic of my big scary dog!

 

[Puppmom]

Girlface, he looks so proud!

 

[Prana]

Haven, I applaud you on all of your hard work.

 

[Prana]

aaaaaw puppmom....what a face!

 

[monarch64]

I also went with a reputable breeder when I got my beagle, Daisy. Beagles are bred for rabbit hunting and very often over-bred and by backyard breeders who aren''t very interested in overall health and longevity. My first beagle was purchased from a farm in Indiana from friends of my ex-SIL. He had more health issues than I care to bring up. When we decided to get a second dog it was because we had had talks of divorcing and did not want to fight over custody of the first--my ex loved him to death and they were inseparable. I wanted to make sure that I found a dog who stood a good chance against having some of the first beagle''s health woes, and after 2 months of careful research I found a breeder 7 hours away who fit the bill. I have been nothing but pleased with my companion.

One of my best friends adopted a beagle mix from her local Humane Society, and I completely support anyone who makes that decision. However, Rosie is a lover but has such severe separation anxiety that she has been on meds for it for most of her new life with my friend and her family. She has a lovely personality otherwise, but has caused so much damage to their apartments and homes, not to mention the expense of having her on meds and paying for the damages she''s incurred that it made me really think twice when I was making the decision to go with a reputable breeder vs. adopting a mix from a shelter.

Growing up, I had dogs that came from your basic "accidents" where people weren''t trying to breed but neglected to spay/neuter. Those dogs made wonderful pets and I cherish those memories from my childhood. However, my parents had them spayed or neutered and they were allowed to run freely on my parents'' 65 acres of rural property. Happy dogs, they were. Anyone who has the time and dedication to take care of pets, no matter where they come from, has my approval and respect.

I am always impressed by those who adopt dogs which require extra attention and love, and of course those folks who truly love a breed despite its reputation. Another friend of mine has a pit/lab mix who looks like mainly pit and he''s the biggest loving baby/scaredy cat ever. Yet she gets a lot of static in public, even though he''s been well-socialized and has the personality of a hamster.

I can''t emphasize enough the importance of training and socializing "rescues"--SO and I were next door for a BBQ about a month ago and the female roommate had her rescued Australian Shepard there, who was very timid and seemed unhappy about the crowd. She is in veterinary school and is obviously an animal lover, but perhaps was a little too confident. After the 9th time she begged me to bring Daisy over (I had sincere trepidation about it seeing that her dog was so timid and although Daisy plays very well with other dogs and has been well socialized since day 1, it just didn''t seem like a good idea), I finally acquiesced and brought Daisy into the fenced in backyard, which is huge. They chased each other and played for a few minutes and suddenly there was an altercation, Daisy ended up with two punctures on her face, and that was that, we were out of there. I wanted to kick myself over it. I hope it was a lesson learned for that young lady, and I really should''ve known better. I appreciated what she was trying to do, but I wish we had both not made the wrong call. I just think extreme caution should be exercised with rescues, well, any dogs in general really, even those who normally show no signs of aggression. My situation fortunately happened in a somewhat controlled environment.

Girlface, your boy is a beauty!

 

[monarch64]

Oh! And GF--we "met" a bull Mastiff outside the farmer''s market a couple weekends ago. He was 10 months old and already 150 lbs! He was still such a roly poly baby, though, and he wanted to love all over Daisy but she was quite obviously afraid he would squish her because she wanted absolutely nothing to do with him! 20 lbs. vs. 150 lbs. of love? She was NOT having it. LOL!

 

[Autumnovember]

Date: 6/30/2010 9:25:15 PM
Author: girlface
Thanks for the support! I always feel ''judged'' because we did not buy from a shelter.


Puppmom-like you, DH and I were novices, and wanted the chance to raise a blank slate, so to speak. I also didn''t feel like we had the knowledge to retrain.


And as a side note, for anyone who is interested, American bulldogs originate in England, and are grouped into the Mastiff category. They were bred as farming dogs. They were used for herding cattle, guarding farms and hunting- animals such as fox and rabbits. Unfortunately, they were also used in the disgusting sport of bull bating, which was outlawed in England in about 1835. The short, wrinkly bulldogs that most people are familiar with now are what was created from re-breeding the American Bulldog. American Bulldogs were actually on the verge of ''extinction'', so to speak, until a few loyal to the breed started to bring them back again.

I adopted from a shelter but that was *my* choice. Just as *your* choice was to get it from a breeder. I did not read the previous post, but I''d just like to say that I do not see anything wrong with people buying their pets from breeders. We''re all entitled to our own decisions and choices in life.

P.S. I absolutely adore bulldogs

 

[Prana]

Thanks again everyone.

And Monarch--great story. All dogs, no matter where they are from need constant supervision. Our dog is a love with people, and even though we socialized him well with other dogs from puppyhood, we don''t trust him for a minute alone with any other dog (except with his sister, who is owned by DH parents). All dogs need training, boundaries and a constant watchful eye!

and here they are...

 

[Prana]

puppmom- I remember the first time I saw a RR, and I fell in love

! I thought it was so beautiful, and I had never heard of the breed at the time.

 

[lyra]

I absolutely agree that it is perfectly acceptable and responsible to buy a purebred dog! Sheesh. We were in the show business many years ago and had show dogs. You wouldn''t believe the amount of money put into bettering each breed generation by generation. It is the show breeders that discover health issues in each particular breed and breed selectively to exclude those issues wherever possible. I know many, many breeders, and not a one makes a penny from breeding. They put all their money into testing their breeding stock extensively and put all their non-show prospects on strict non-breeding (spay/neuter) contracts. This is what is best for any breed. No one, IMO should be breeding any dogs if they are not show breeders. It''s not enough to have a nice looking dog, with a nice temperament. The show breeders I know all sent their dogs on to get obedience titles as well, and/or agility titles. They were truly breeding the best "tested" stock out there. It''s a good thing.

It''s politically correct to adopt pets. It *is* responsible. However, it''s just not ever going to solve the greater problem caused by people who don''t know what they are doing, breeding dogs for profit or because they just haven''t spayed or neutered their pets, or just because they think their pet is cute or whatever. I don''t care what way you get your pet, but I urge everyone to spay and neuter. I support spay/neuter clinics.

It''s a personal choice. I''ve done it all ways possible over the last 25 years. Right now we have a retired show dog (spayed), an adopted dog (spayed), and our new dog bought because we wanted a particular breed, sex, colour (oh my a choice!), age and personality (will be neutered at 6 months). We are responsible people. I think all dogs are beautiful, but it''s not wrong to want a particular breed or to research all breeds and decide which one best suits one''s lifestyle. Purebred dogs from great breeders will have dependable health and temperament guarantees. Either way, it''s an individual choice.

 

[Prana]

Lyra, thanks for your post, and I agree 100% with what you said.

Honestly, we paid pocket change for our dog compared to what pet store prices are. We saw an "American Bulldog" (poor thing looked so sick)

in a pet store once for double what we paid for ours. We signed a strict contract with our breeder stating that we would not breed, and that if we were going to breed, the breeder has the ultimate say on who the bitch will be. His legal name is the name of the breeder''s ''business'', for lack of a better word, followed by the name we gave him. It''s serious business!

 

[risingsun]

Date: 6/30/2010 10:42:07 PM
Author: lyra
I absolutely agree that it is perfectly acceptable and responsible to buy a purebred dog! Sheesh. We were in the show business many years ago and had show dogs. You wouldn''t believe the amount of money put into bettering each breed generation by generation. It is the show breeders that discover health issues in each particular breed and breed selectively to exclude those issues wherever possible. I know many, many breeders, and not a one makes a penny from breeding. They put all their money into testing their breeding stock extensively and put all their non-show prospects on strict non-breeding (spay/neuter) contracts. This is what is best for any breed. No one, IMO should be breeding any dogs if they are not show breeders. It''s not enough to have a nice looking dog, with a nice temperament. The show breeders I know all sent their dogs on to get obedience titles as well, and/or agility titles. They were truly breeding the best ''tested'' stock out there. It''s a good thing.

It''s politically correct to adopt pets. It *is* responsible. However, it''s just not ever going to solve the greater problem caused by people who don''t know what they are doing, breeding dogs for profit or because they just haven''t spayed or neutered their pets, or just because they think their pet is cute or whatever. I don''t care what way you get your pet, but I urge everyone to spay and neuter. I support spay/neuter clinics.

It''s a personal choice. I''ve done it all ways possible over the last 25 years. Right now we have a retired show dog (spayed), an adopted dog (spayed), and our new dog bought because we wanted a particular breed, sex, colour (oh my a choice!), age and personality (will be neutered at 6 months). We are responsible people. I think all dogs are beautiful, but it''s not wrong to want a particular breed or to research all breeds and decide which one best suits one''s lifestyle. Purebred dogs from great breeders will have dependable health and temperament guarantees. Either way, it''s an individual choice.

Thank you for your post, Lyra. We all have the right to choose from whom we get our dogs. Instead of lecturing people to buy from shelters or rescues, please spend your time speaking to irresponsible dog owners who do not spay or neuter their dogs. This is a good part of why there are so many dogs in shelters. Also, don''t get a dog or a breed that you cannot train, manage and spend time loving and socializing. This is another reason that dogs are put into shelters. We bought our Cavalier King Charles Spaniel from an ethical breeder. She had more questions for us than we had for her. If we ever decided we could no longer take care of our dog, our contract stated that he would be returned to her. We did not purchase him to show and agreed to neuter him and provided her with the appropriate documentation. He has been trained in obedience and earned his AKC Canine Good Citizen Award. We trained in the sport of agility. We have a fenced in yard, but we always supervise him. He is very precious to us. If you can''t be a good pet owner, don''t buy a pet. If you don''t like were I got my dog, than we will have to agree to disagree. There is no moral high ground in this area. Be a responsible pet owner and there will be many fewer dogs in shelters.

 

[packrat]

Nothing more really to add to what''s been said. Just wanted to say GF I remember seeing the pics of the dogs a while back (in a pet thread I think?) and I still think they are so beautiful. Bully breeds have some of the most expressive faces I''ve ever seen.

Our next dog will be a JRT, and we''ll be going thru a reputable breeder. The next Cavalier we get will be a retired show dog from the breeder we talked to before we got Chicken.

I feel bad, b/c I know there are SO many animals put down every day, but I want to have an idea of what I''m getting.

OTOH, our cats have always been strays or farm cats from my parents! I guess I don''t worry about it so much w/cats for some reason.

 

[Haven]

I love the pictures!

Girlface--I'm sorry for my rant. I really should have just said "I don't believe shelter dogs are for everyone because they often require so much special care. If you choose a reputable breeder, more power to you!"

Anyway, here's a picture of my Bailee pup with her feline brother, Vince. I've posted this picture on here before, but I love it because you can see her irresistible pouty face. We think that the cats believe she is their personal heated pillow because they all sleep on her in the bed at night.

 

[yssie]

Date: 7/1/2010 1:06:35 AM
Author: Haven
I love the pictures!

Girlface--I'm sorry for my rant. I really should have just said 'I don't believe shelter dogs are for everyone because they often require so much special care. If you choose a reputable breeder, more power to you!'

Anyway, here's a picture of my Bailee pup with her feline brother, Vince. I've posted this picture on here before, but I love it because you can see her irresistible pouty face. We think that the cats believe she is their personal heated pillow because they all sleep on her in the bed at night.

Blind fear of having to "work to fix" a shelter dog is easy to perpetuate, and only hurts the 90% of the shelter animals it doesn't apply to.


These days I think you'll find that the vast majority of shelter animals are ready to adopt out with few to no issues (which should be specified at time of sale), simply because shelters are so overcrowded that the unadoptable ones are quickly euthanized.


Harsh facts.

 

[Haven]

Date: 7/1/2010 1:14:45 AM
Author: yssie

Date: 7/1/2010 1:06:35 AM
Author: Haven
I love the pictures!
Girlface--I'm sorry for my rant. I really should have just said 'I don't believe shelter dogs are for everyone because they often require so much special care. If you choose a reputable breeder, more power to you!'
Anyway, here's a picture of my Bailee pup with her feline brother, Vince. I've posted this picture on here before, but I love it because you can see her irresistible pouty face. We think that the cats believe she is their personal heated pillow because they all sleep on her in the bed at night.

Blind fear of having to 'work to fix' a shelter dog is easy to perpetuate, and only hurts the 90% of the shelter animals it doesn't apply to.

These days I think you'll find that the vast majority of shelter animals are ready to adopt out with few to no issues (which should be specified at time of sale), simply because shelters are so overcrowded that the unadoptable ones are quickly euthanized.

Harsh facts.

yssie--I am not perpetuating blind fear of having to 'work to fix' a shelter dog. Your "harsh facts" are not facts at all for my area. I volunteer in a number of local shelters, and the majority of our dogs are strong, powerful breeds who need strong, dedicated owners.

It's wonderful that wherever you are located has shelters filled with dogs that have few to no issues, but that is so far from the reality of what I see. Many of the dogs we get in these shelters are surrendered by owners who were ill equipped for owning and raising a strong breed, and it's the saddest thing in the world.

These are wonderful dogs, and they all deserve loving, supportive families. It is my wish to see all of them happy and in homes, but that won't happen if people who can't really give them what they need do the adopting. (If you had read my first post you would have seen my explanation for what happens when these people adopt dogs they can't truly provide for.)

Adopting ANY dog is not a decision to be taken lightly, and it is a fact that many shelter dogs have checkered pasts that include either neglect, abuse, or in the very least, a lack of proper guidance and socialization. These dogs need strong, dedicated owners who either know what they're doing, or are dedicated to working with a professional to help them figure it out.

In addition, I'd actually say that MOST dog owners are mediocre at best. There are so many dogs in our neighborhood who NEVER go for walks, they are just let out into the backyard and that's it. They go bananas jumping at the windows when we pass their house on our walks. It's disgusting. And I live in the type of neighborhood where most of these dogs are probably designer dogs from some expensive breeder. They aren't trained at all. The few who are lucky enough to go for a walk every now and then pull their owners on the leash and go bananas when they see my dog as we pass by. These dogs are cooped up in small spaces, untrained, and anything but calm and relaxed. They are anxious dogs who have zero outlet for their energy and zero guidance from their owners. It's horrible and it's shameful. These owners definitely don't have what it takes to provide for any dog, let alone a strong breed who is likely to need a lot of exercise, and a strong pack leader. All these people do is perpetuate the myth that some dogs are uncontrollable or hard to handle.

ETA: I agree with your post in the "21 things to avoid buying new" thread, but I think you're fooling yourself if you really believe that 90% of dogs in shelters have few to no issues.

 

[yssie]

Date: 7/1/2010 1:51:04 AM
Author: Haven

yssie--I am not perpetuating blind fear of having to 'work to fix' a shelter dog. Your 'harsh facts' are not facts at all for my area. I volunteer in a number of local shelters, and the majority of our dogs are strong, powerful breeds who need strong, dedicated owners.

It's wonderful that wherever you are located has shelters filled with dogs that have few to no issues, but that is so far from the reality of what I see. Many of the dogs we get in these shelters are surrendered by owners who were ill equipped for owning and raising a strong breed, and it's the saddest thing in the world.

These are wonderful dogs, and they all deserve loving, supportive families. It is my wish to see all of them happy and in homes, but that won't happen if people who can't really give them what they need do the adopting. (If you had read my first post you would have seen my explanation for what happens when these people adopt dogs they can't truly provide for.)

Adopting ANY dog is not a decision to be taken lightly, and it is a fact that many shelter dogs have checkered pasts that include either neglect, abuse, or in the very least, a lack of proper guidance and socialization. These dogs need strong, dedicated owners who either know what they're doing, or are dedicated to working with a professional to help them figure it out.

In addition, I'd actually say that MOST dog owners are mediocre at best. There are so many dogs in our neighborhood who NEVER go for walks, they are just let out into the backyard and that's it. They go bananas jumping at the windows when we pass their house on our walks. It's disgusting. And I live in the type of neighborhood where most of these dogs are probably designer dogs from some expensive breeder. They aren't trained at all. The few who are lucky enough to go for a walk every now and then pull their owners on the leash and go bananas when they see my dog as we pass by. These dogs are cooped up in small spaces, untrained, and anything but calm and relaxed. They are anxious dogs who have zero outlet for their energy and zero guidance from their owners. It's horrible and it's shameful. These owners definitely don't have what it takes to provide for any dog, let alone a strong breed who is likely to need a lot of exercise, and a strong pack leader. All these people do is perpetuate the myth that some dogs are uncontrollable or hard to handle.

I should have been clearer - I took objection to your statement that shelter dogs often require so much special care, as that's not the case at all in my area. In my area many shelter dogs do have checkered pasts, but many, many more are the results of people choosing not to alter their pets and having 'accidents', pets escaping and having 'accidents', "breeders" unable to care for an excess of animals in a given litter with another on the way and no time devote to homing the current excess... animals that, in short, have no histories of abuse and would have little difficulty adapting to a new and loving environment.


I hear so often that a person or a couple wanting to adopt an animal is going to a breeder because they 'want to know what they're getting into', or because 'her great-aunt Mildred adopted a cat from the shelter and it turned out to be completely psychotic'.. issue is, with a younger dog, you never know what you're getting into, regardless of how many generations of 'docile' and 'child-friendly' the breeder can trace through the bitch, the best you can hope to do is guess and be prepared to have guessed wrong. With an adult dog, you know what you're getting into right away since they give you x weeks to decide to return or keep. And obviously Great-Aunt Mildred's experience is not necessarily going to be yours.


I completely agree that a responsible owner should go into it with eyes open, regardless of breed, and it is an unfortunate fact that far too many do not. I must wonder, though, just how many of those breeders who sold to irresponsible owners went through due process? Examined the home prior to sale, asked personal questions about children, work habits, other pets? Made it clear that if the adoption didn't work out he/she (the breeder) would take the animal back? And... here is my biggest issue: if a potential pet owner is willing to put the work into owning a strong breed, why not take a gander at the goods at your local shelters, which are full of unwanted purebred animals of exactly that desired breed - surely there must be some specimens that weren't badly neglected/starved/kicked/etc and aren't such adoption risks?

How exactly does one justify supporting the breeding - from a reputable breeder or not - of more purebred animals of TypeA when there are apparently a dozen TypeAs waiting for homes in the shelter just down the street?


ETA: This isn't about the numbers - yes, 90% is an exaggeration, but that is not the basis for my point. Let's say for example that 75% of animals DO have issues of some sort that might make potential owners uncomfortable - again, this is not the case in my area at all, and I have worked in these shelters long enough at this point to have watched several cycles; I would safely wager the majority of dogs are neglected and overclingy and prone to URIs, but that's about it - too many of them have been there since puppy-hood. That still leaves 25% that unarguably SHOULD NOT still be there. But they are.

 

[merilenda]

I also volunteer at my local shelter, and my experiences have been like Haven's. My local humane society is not no-kill, but they have not euthanized an animal in about a decade. Therefore, many dogs stay in the shelter for months and even years. While I enjoy working with the dogs, and they all deserve a loving home, I think it would be a great exaggeration to say that 90% have few or no issues.

ETA: When I said that an animal hadn't been euthanized in nearly 10 years, I meant for the reason of overcrowding. Animals are still euthanized for health issues. The humane society in my hometown is much, much smaller and euthanizes frequently for space.

 

[Haven]

yssie--I understand that you took issue with what I said, but I still think it's true.

I've owned shelter dogs (and cats) my entire life, and I've learned that people who say things like "My great-aunt Mildred adopted a cat from the shelter and it turned out to be completely psychotic' aren't very likely to be good pet owners at all. I've heard so many "horror" stories from people who see my dog, ask if she's a Pit mix, and then tell me about their sister's college roommate's father's business partner who adopted a Pit mix that was perfect for three years and then it bit their six-year-old child, so they would NEVER adopt a shelter dog. Frankly, I hope they don't. People like that probably make for horrible dog owners because they don't sound like they're really open to truly learning anything about what it really takes to properly raise a dog. It takes work. Shelter or breeder dog alike, they all need regular walks, exercise, discipline, diet, and TIME.

I think there are a lot of horrible breeders out there. I wish that all of those great dog owners who went the breeder route would have adopted shelter dogs because we need more responsible owners to adopt from shelters.

I can't answer how one justifies supporting the breeding of any animal because that is something I would never choose to participate in. However, I don't judge people for doing it. Does it break my heart when I meet a really grade pet owner with a strong breed dog from a breeder? Absolutely. I WISH they would have come in to the shelter and given those dogs a shot. I do. We have so many amazing dogs that just want to be in a good family. But most of them are strong, and they need really dedicated owners.

I have no idea how to solve the problem, so I just keep on going in and volunteering to clean cages, walk the dogs, show them at adoption events, man the fundraisers, cuddle with the kitties, and I encourage people to check out the shelters before they go to a breeder. I protested the pet store that recently opened in our local mall that got their puppies from a puppy mill. (They've since closed, that's a start.) I'm raising my little Pit mix to be the best behaved dog she can be so every time someone asks me where I got her I can show them how wonderful a shelter dog can be. But really, it's taken a lot of work, and there are just so many people who wouldn't be able to put in the effort. My own mother only walks her dogs every other day, and I feel no end of guilt about that. It's my experience that many dogs in our shelters need strong owners to really help them lead good lives, and unfortunately most of the owners I see out there are just not that great.

ETA: In our shelters those "issue-less" dogs are typically adopted out pretty quickly. The small dogs go the fastest, and then the really docile dogs that are clearly lovebugs go next--your Labradors and Golden Retriever types. Then, the rest of the cages are filled with beautiful Pit mixes who are just wishing for a good owner, and if I could, I would adopt them all. Every single one of them.

Oh, man. DH and I have been discussing adopting a second dog for weeks now, and this discussion has me gearing up to take Bailee in tomorrow to see who she gels with.