Danger of princess with high % table and depth

[natalie_a_c]

I''ve been offered a square modified which sound fairly good to me but I''ve heard high percentage table and depth can be an issue. Does this one sound a bit dicey, and if so what are the possible issues?

1.00 carat 5.15 x 5.03 x 4.30
D
VS1
Polish - Ex
symmetry - Very good
Fluoresence - Strong blue
Table 75%
Depth 85%
Girdle - slightly thick to extremely thick

Thanks for any help,

Nat

 

[JulieN]

this stone faces up like a well-cut 3/4 carat princess.

 

[jstarfireb]

Yup, that''s definitely too deep, and as such will hide carat weight and look smaller than it should.

 

[Lorelei]

Yes although depth doesn't always dictate spread in Princess and other fancy shapes, this diamond is definitely too deep.

 

[FB.]

Large tables can make the stone's sparkle less interesting; the facets around the table edges are what give the stone "life". Make the table larger and you take away some of the stone's personality.
I would go no larger than 72% table and 75% depth - and look for a crown no shallower than 10%.
As the others have said; a normal 1ct princess would measure 5.5mm. This one "faces up" like a 0.8ct stone, so you might as well save $$$ and buy a well-cut 0.8ct, or buy a 0.8ct of higher colour and clarity.

Any stone with "extremely" used in it's girdle description gets a big downgrade in my book. "Extreme" means a long way from normality.

I reckon that you could drop colour to F and clarity to VS2 and you'd struggle to see the difference between a D VS1. The cost savings would be considerable and would allow a better cut stone.

 

[diamondringlover]

Yep this stats are far off from my princess bought pre PS days and it faces up much smaller then it should

 

[natalie_a_c]

Thanks guys that info is really helpful!

So is this one looking alright?

Princess
Carat Weight: 1.00
Color: F
Clarity: Vs1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Table %: 69.00
Depth %: 69.80
Culet: N
Girdle: Medium to very thick
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.62-5.33x3.72
Length/Width ratio: 1.05
Certificate: GIA

 

[FB.]

Basic proportions look promising.
But I''m not liking the symmetry as only "good".
I''m also not a fan of stones that have only just scraped through the carat boundary, since many of them contain minor cutters tricks so that the stone didn''t end up as 0.98ct.
Crown height is not mentioned. This is important. You might be able to crudely guesstimate from the certificate.

 

[natalie_a_c]

How do you guesstimate from the certificate? Here''s the link:

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/Dialog.aspx?ImageUrl=http://www.diamonds.net/UF/32541/Certs/20206.jpg

 

[FB.]

Best to get a proper scan of the stone, but GIA seem draw their profiles to scale, despite the comment under the stone that suggests otherwise. Therefore, a quick poke with a ruler can estimate the height of the crown compared to the width of the stone.
The crown height looks around 9-11% from the diagram. That's promising but not a guarantee of crown height and certainly only an estimate. Call the company to ask about putting the stone on hold, pending them measuring the crown height.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/24/2009 1:11:14 PM
Author: natalie_a_c
How do you guesstimate from the certificate? Here''s the link:

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/Dialog.aspx?ImageUrl=http://www.diamonds.net/UF/32541/Certs/20206.jpg

Natalie, images such as ASET are best to judge a Princess, I don''t think SB offer them but you could ask.

 

[FB.]

I just noticed and I'm not over-impressed with the "very thick" girdle. There'll be a lot of weight hidden in there, making the stone "face-up" smaller. That's what happens with many stones exactly on a carat boundary line - and is why I advised caution.

 

[natalie_a_c]

What about these two?

Princess
Carat Weight: 1.03
Color: F
Clarity: Vs2
Cut Grade: Good
Table %: 68.00
Depth %: 64.60
Girdle: Medium to Thick
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.80-5.68x3.67
Length/Width ratio: 1.02

GIA Cert http://www.solomonbrothers.com/Dialog.aspx?ImageUrl=http://www.diamonds.net/UF/66863/Certs/gia20469.jpg






Shape : Princess
Carats : 1.01
Cut Grade : Very Good
Color Grade : F
Clarity Grade : VS2
Certificate No. : 5111273422
Measurement : 5.69x5.67x3.85
Ratio : 1
Depth : 67.9
Table : 68
Girdle : M-TK
Culet : None
Polish : Good
Symmetry : Very Good
Certification : GIA - link to cert can be found on this page http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?item_id=AB505554&search_type_id=2&action_type_id=2&network_id=0cf05810a0f83094f6e9972ef21cdd34#


Thanks guys!

Fluorescence : NO

 

[FB.]

"Good" polish is very disappointing - in the second stone.
Less than VG polish is a deal-killer, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[natalie_a_c]

Thanks for your help again and my apologies, i didn''t see that the table was bigger than the depth on the first of those last two options. I take your point about the good polish not being good enough on the second one. So thanks again... learning a bit more each day.

A couple of questions..
how can you work out the crown percentage height?
and can you work out the pavillion angle?

What about this diamond? For $150 to call it in I think I get photos videos and cut analysis. Apparently the analysis includes:
AGS ASET
Trinocular Microscope
Sarin DC-3000 Colorimeter
OGI Megascope Proportion Analyser
AGS Performance Grading Software
OGI Firetrace Software
Diamond Calculator V3)


SQUARE MODIFIED BRILLIANT

Measurements: 5.58 x 5.52 x 4.03 mm
Carat Weight: 1.04 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
PROPORTIONS:

Depth: 73.0%
Table: 70%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Culet: None
FINISH:

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
GIA cert: http://www2.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/certs/J4524143.jpg

 

[FB.]

Date: 11/28/2009 4:58:56 PM
Author: natalie_a_c

A couple of questions..
how can you work out the crown percentage height?
and can you work out the pavillion angle?

You could ask for a scan of the diamond.
Or......
GIA profiles are usually drawn to scale (despite the claim under neath that they''re not), so you can make a rough guess by measuring the profile on the cert. You can at least make a guess to within a few % of the true crown height, which would allow you to decide whether to investigate further, or abandon the stone because the crown is too flat.
Remember that crown height % is expressed as a percentage of the stone diameter.