Cut gurus, what is this cut?

[InnaR]

I stumbled onto a diamond that made my heart skip a bit. Can anyone identify the cut of this stone?
Description says that it is a G/SI3. Don't have much trust into both, but love the cut. I'm on this forum for few years already and haven't seen a cut like that yet. Looks like an OMC, but the one with no table at all, or a very tiny one.

Please help me to identify it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

No clue! Maybe an old cut. Bad pictures for showing faceting detail. Remember, though, as cool as it could look in pictures, there is a science to cutting diamonds, and sometimes really unusual cuts are very poor at doing what diamonds are supposed to do: sparkle and shine!

 

[InnaR]

Thanks Dreamer D.
I always remember about sparkle factor, but this cut looks very interesting. I love the look of tiny facets and almost bead like form of the center stone.

Would appreciate any other ideas of the possible age and cut of the stone.

 

[yssie]

Neat! An awesome 'crushed ice' example, to my eyes - all random glitter and sparkle

I can't help you with more info though.

 

[InnaR]

Yssie,
I thought that "crushed ice" is a characteristic of some modern cuts. This one to my untrained eyes looks more like an old cut But i might be wrong.

 

[Rhino]

The tall crown and small table are characteristics of older cuts. If suspicions are correct it is an OEC. It should be noted also that just because a diamond is an OEC doesn't meant it's not prone to a crushed ice look. I've seen many vintage cut diamonds take on a crushed look. Big facets do not = big sparkle. The large facet structure, if not cut to the right geometry can produce all manner of optics from overall darkness, dark centers, overall crushed ice appearance, or good brilliance down the crown angles and a crushed ice appearance under the table. I've seen em all. My educated guess would be an OEC with a crushed ice appearance throughout the stone.

Kind regards,
Rhino

 

[SweetAsscher]

http://jubilantcrown.com/JC/media/images/JCRoundComparison.jpg.. ???



Does look cool though!

 

[InnaR]

Rhino,
Thank you for your educated guess. The round shape and super tall crown does make it look more like OEC than OMC. I'll go with your guess.

SweetAsscher,
It's interesting that you bring up the Jubilee, since the seller did mention it. I looked it up it and did not see much resemblance between this stone and modern cut Jubilees. Except for the extra facets.

Thank you all for your opinions.
The seller has two weeks money back policy, so i just might take a plunge and get it. I'll try to post more pictures when i get it.

 

[Rhino]

Send it to a lab that will perform optical analysis. I'd love to see an ASET on it.

 

[InnaR]

Will do. Does GIA grade old cuts or should I go with EGL?

Also, found this article. There is definitely resemblance there with Briolette. Maybe the mix of cuts?

http://www.thediamondcuts.com/briolette.html

UPD: Seller sent few more picture, including the one of the pavilion.

 

[yssie]

Okay, I want this thing! Where can I get one too?

I wouldn't bother with a lab, honestly - I'd send it straight to an appraiser who knows old cuts to see what he/she makes of it. To send to GIA you'd have to have the stone unset, and a respected & trusted appraiser's opinion is worth more to me than an EGL report anyway.

I remember some posts about appraisers for old cuts... I'll try and dig some up...

ETA: Okay, I found lots of posts saying to 'go to an appraiser familiar w/ older stones' but hardly any that actually name any appraisers!
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/nyc-appraiser-oec-and-or-aset-experienced.166006/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/nyc-appraiser-oec-and-or-aset-experienced.166006/[/URL]
And Neal Beatty's suggestions of resources to find appraisers -
www.najaappraisers.com
www.appraisers.org
www.ags.org

 

[aviastar]

http://jubilantcrown.com/JC/media/images/JCRoundComparison.jpg.. ???



Does look cool though!

This is the cut patented by my local jeweler- cool!

OP- I've seen the Jubilant Crowns in person, and I agree, I don't think this diamond is a Jubilant Crown, but I thought the original Queen Victoria's Jubilee pattern (which the Jubilant Crown was inspired by) was a "no table" pattern- so maybe it is one of those! I'm finding it difficult to find an google images of an authenticated Queen Victoria Jubilee cut, though...so it's all a guess on my part.

In any case it's a good look!

 

[aviastar]

Found one!



This is my guess!

 

[InnaR]

Yssie,
Thanks for your help with appraisers.
It does look cool (well, to my eyes)! I'm worried that it will look not so good in person. I'm glad it has 14 days no questions asked return policy.

Aviastar,
I spent few hours with absolutely zero luck searching for the Antique Jubilee cut.
So you think it's modern?

 

[yssie]

Yssie,
Thanks for your help with appraisers.
It does look cool (well, to my eyes)! I'm worried that it will look not so good in person. I'm glad it has 14 days no questions asked return policy.

Aviastar,
I spent few hours with absolutely zero luck searching for the Antique Jubilee cut.
So you think it's modern?

I forgot to mention - some of those appraisers will have the tools do to the optical analyses Rhino's talking about - ASET, scan, etc., but some won't, so you'll have to do some homework with that.

Since the vendor is apparently willing to take more photos could you maybe request a shot showing glare off the table (or not, as the case may be)? I'm going cross-eyed trying to figure out if there *is* a table from those pics..

Like this, I mean -

 

[InnaR]

Yssie,
Not what you asked for, but two more pictures. I don't like the pictures, but based on them I would say that if there is table it's a tiny one.





UPD: and a couple more

 

[CharmyPoo]

It sure is an interesting cut but sorry .. can't help don't know. You got it at a fantastic price .. jealous!

 

[aviastar]

Yssie,
Thanks for your help with appraisers.
It does look cool (well, to my eyes)! I'm worried that it will look not so good in person. I'm glad it has 14 days no questions asked return policy.

Aviastar,
I spent few hours with absolutely zero luck searching for the Antique Jubilee cut.
So you think it's modern?

I really only found the diagram above (from a few different sources) after searching google images for 'jubilee diamond cut'.

Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee was held in 1897 and I found this about The Jubilee Diamond (googled 'queen victoria jubilee diamond') and the cut that resulted from it:
"When during the cutting it became evident that a superb diamond of exceptional purity and size was being produced, it was planned to present it to Queen Victoria. In the end this did not happen and the diamond remained with its owners. The following year marked the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria (the 60th anniversary of her coronation) so the gem was renamed the Jubilee to commemorate the occasion. In the world of diamonds the event was also marked by the introduction of of the Jubilee cut; this has the characteristics of both the brilliant and rose cuts in that the table is replaced by eight facets, meeting in the center, the total number of facets being increased to 88. This cut was short-lived and is not often encountered today"

So...maybe an old family stone someone had reset or a reproduction of the old Jubilee cut or like Coati said, a one off?

 

[SparklyOEC]

No guess on the cut, but it's really cool.

 

[InnaR]

It sure is an interesting cut but sorry .. can't help don't know. You got it at a fantastic price .. jealous!

Got to love those "Best Offer" auctions.

I actually think that i overpaid. I think I can spot that SI2 inclusion on the pictures and it's bothering me already. So will see. Got to see the cut in person, before it goes back.

Yssie,
Thanks for your help with appraisers.
It does look cool (well, to my eyes)! I'm worried that it will look not so good in person. I'm glad it has 14 days no questions asked return policy.

Aviastar,
I spent few hours with absolutely zero luck searching for the Antique Jubilee cut.
So you think it's modern?

I really only found the diagram above (from a few different sources) after searching google images for 'jubilee diamond cut'.

Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee was held in 1897 and I found this about The Jubilee Diamond (googled 'queen victoria jubilee diamond') and the cut that resulted from it:
"When during the cutting it became evident that a superb diamond of exceptional purity and size was being produced, it was planned to present it to Queen Victoria. In the end this did not happen and the diamond remained with its owners. The following year marked the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria (the 60th anniversary of her coronation) so the gem was renamed the Jubilee to commemorate the occasion. In the world of diamonds the event was also marked by the introduction of of the Jubilee cut; this has the characteristics of both the brilliant and rose cuts in that the table is replaced by eight facets, meeting in the center, the total number of facets being increased to 88. This cut was short-lived and is not often encountered today"

So...maybe an old family stone someone had reset or a reproduction of the old Jubilee cut or like Coati said, a one off?

I could not find the original Queen Victoria Jubilee images. The vendor claims that it's Jubilee. Doesn't look anything like modern Jubilee or any other cut, so who knows. I guess it can be called anything.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I will be super curious about your thoughts on its optics. Do you own any other diamonds? What cuts? I am interested to see how this compares to other cuts.

Clarity might be the sticker. Hopefully it is eye clean.

 

[InnaR]

I will be super curious about your thoughts on its optics. Do you own any other diamonds? What cuts? I am interested to see how this compares to other cuts.

Clarity might be the sticker. Hopefully it is eye clean.

Dreamer_D,
Yes I do own a few, from Whiteflash ACA, GOG AVC, OEC, Grace's beatuful OMC and that untique marquise that is still posted on their website (by the way it's breathtaking and Grace is amazing vendor. I did not start a separate post about it, so i'll mention it here).
I have a tiny collection, but I don't seem to be able to take good pictures, so i don't post much.

I'm a old cut addict, so i'm looking forward myself to comparing it to other cuts.

I'll try to do my best to describe it once i get it and maybe will post some pictures.

 

[Dreamer_D]

GREAT! I am so glad you are a saavy diamond owner, because you will know what pleases you eye and also whether this stone is cut well. Can't wait to hear your thoughts!

I adore that antique marquise JBEG had listed. Glad you have it!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I noticed you returned the diamond. Any reason why? Is it that inclusion?

 

[InnaR]

CharmyPoo,
Yes, i returned it. And yes, it's because of the inclusion. I kept it for two days, to see it in a different lighting conditions, but almost in all of them i could see that inclusion. As soon i I found it, i kept looking for it and finding it. It looked like a dark spot (not black, just dark) and every time i saw it, I felt an urge to wash the stone to get rid of that spot.

As for the cut, it was truly beautiful. Since i decided not to keep it i did not take it to any appraise, just to my friend jeweler to confirm that it's a diamond.

I did find the table on the stone; I would say that the cut looked to my eyes closer to OMC than OEC. I would classify it as NOT chunky OMC. I really liked the way it performed. It did not have crushed ice appearance at all, but rather a disco ball, when with each slight turn you see more facets come into play. Looked magnificent under restaurant lighting and outsparkled my OEC with lots of splintery colorful flashes. It even attracted some attention from people around me.

It might be that an inclusion would be less visible in a pendant, but i decided not to take a risk while I am still within return period window.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I am actually thinking about the stone because I do like how it is unique. Did you take more photos of the inclusion? I am rather immune to inclusions (although all my stones are usually VS). Can you point out where it is? The photos aren''t clear enough for me to see.

 

[yssie]

I am actually thinking about the stone because I do like how it is unique. Did you take more photos of the inclusion? I am rather immune to inclusions (although all my stones are usually VS). Can you point out where it is? The photos aren''t clear enough for me to see.

Great minds I'm really curious to hear what you think of it if you get it!

Probably best not to post any links now, but if you decide against it please do.

 

[InnaR]

I am actually thinking about the stone because I do like how it is unique. Did you take more photos of the inclusion? I am rather immune to inclusions (although all my stones are usually VS). Can you point out where it is? The photos aren''t clear enough for me to see.

On a second and third pictures from the top it's visiblle. It looks like a greyish cloud on the upper side of the crown.
It was visible under some lighting conditions and not visible under others. Under restaraunt lighting it was not visible since the light reflecting from the facets was hiding it.

I did not take my pictures, but if you know where to look fot it you can find it even on the sellers pictures.

I myself was quite upset for having to return it, it's a very unique stone. My vision got better with age.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Are you talking about this?

 

[InnaR]

Yes, this is exactly where it is.