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Cushion Cut Engagement Ring - Did i get ripped off?

diamondrookie22

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Jul 26, 2016
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44
Hello,

I just purchased (only put a deposit so far) an engagement ring. I am trying to see if im getting ripped off.

Diamond: Cushion Cut
Carat: 1.21
Cut: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Color: E
Clarity: VVS2
GIA Certified
Depth: 69%
Table: 62%
Fluorescence: STRONG
Price Paid: $8,200

I don't know much about diamonds, but based on the research I did before I went to the store everything seemed great when he showed me this diamond. After coming home and second guessing myself I looked more into it and saw that strong fluorescence in a DEF colored diamond is a bad thing. I am now second guessing this purchase. I even called and complained today, the store manager is saying it is not a big deal at all. He said if it really bothers me he will give me the below diamond for the same price:

Diamond: Cushion Cut
Carat: 1.30
Cut: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Polish: Excellent
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
GIA Certified
Depth: 69%
Table: 64%
Fluorescence: None

Are either of these a good deal or is this a bad deal either way? I already gave a $500 deposit and I don't think he is going to give it back.

Thanks everyone in advance for their help.

DiamondRookie
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
If you go up to the Resources tab at the top of the screen you can look for diamonds with the same parameters.

I do think that an E VVS is total overkil. An E/F VS2 would have been a much better choice. And you could have easily gotten a huge savings with no visual impact.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/C120-6Z039073Z (ask for ASET image)

Dimensions not weight matter with cushions. This is a gorgeous cushion with excellent light performance:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/C113-125936731


You must post dimensions, not weight for cushions. A 1.3 could EASILY face up smaller than a 1.2. Cushions are NOTHING like rounds. You can't just say: I'll take an E VS cushion at 1.3.

I would advise you to get a refund. WHY? See below.
 

ringo865

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2,369
Cushion cuts don't have cut grading. Who says it's excellent cut? The seller? Are these GIA or AGS graded? Is the seller one of the vendors recommended here - one with a good return policy?

What are the dimensions of each stone and do you have any images of them?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

There really is no other way to determine if you have a good cushions is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds.

Or you can get an AGS0 cushions, but those are rare, and usually branded. . GIA does not grade their cushions for performance. Only AGS does. And any lab other than GIA or AGS is not worth considering at all.


So you do not have this information at all. And most cushions are poorly cut dogs. So... yeah. You have no idea what you are getting. Color and clarity do not a pretty stone make. They are not the important part of chosing a diamond. Cut is. And with cushions that means performance and faceting. GIA doesn't grade cushions for cut. And vendor opinions are meaningless unless they are backed up with evidence like ASET, images, and videos.

Your jewelers claims of excellent cut are very likely complete BS I am afraid.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
40,198
Florescent stones are fine. Even in higher colors provided there is no haziness or milkiness as a result.
 

Queenie60

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If I were you I would hold on to my money and allow the experts on this forum help you to find a wonderful cushion stone. You will get much more for your $$$. Good luck. :wavey:
 

msop04

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Dec 3, 2011
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diamondrookie22 said:
I'm on my way to the jeweler now. What is an ideal dimension for a 1.3 ct cushion cut?
There are no ideal dimensions for cushion cut… It totally depends on the individual stone 's cut and the shape.

Like another poster said, I would not buy anything until you consult with the experts here on this site
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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diamondrookie22 said:
I'm on my way to the jeweler now. What is an ideal dimension for a 1.3 ct cushion cut?


Again. Cushions are nothing like rounds. There are NO (zip zero zilch) numbers on a lab report or any dimensions that can determine if a cushion is ideal cut. Anyone who tells you otherwise is LYING. FLAT OUT LYING.
 

diamondrookie22

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Jul 26, 2016
Messages
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ringo865 said:
Cushion cuts don't have cut grading. Who says it's excellent cut? The seller? Are these GIA or AGS graded? Is the seller one of the vendors recommended here - one with a good return policy?

What are the dimensions of each stone and do you have any images of them?
Yes the seller said it was excellent but now he is saying he said the symmetry and polish were excellent. I may have misunderstood. These are GIA graded. The seller is not a recommended vendor here. It is a local jeweler by my house. He said he will not return my $500 deposit because he already sized the ring. So I may either dispute the charge or just buy the setting from him because I really liked it. The dimensions for the 1.2ct vvs2 was 6.00 x 5.85 x 4.09 mm and the dimensions for the 1.3 ct VS2 are 6.28 x 5.93 x 4.11 mm. I only have 2 images but the diamond is already in the setting. I know it won't help much but I attached them. That is the 1.2 vvs2

_4994.jpeg

_4995.jpeg
 

diamondrookie22

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Jul 26, 2016
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Thank you everyone for your responses. Much appreciated. I told the jeweler I need to reconsider and I am shopping around before I commit. I might have to battle for this $500 back but that's about it.
 

farrahlyn

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in your initial post, you said you put down a $500 deposit. Did he resize the ring by YOUR request or did he just go forward on the resizing assuming you'd purchase it? Did you pay with CC?
 

Queenie60

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I would dispute that $500 deposit. He can't be too reputable if he is not willing to return a deposit. And once you get your deposit returned, I would not do business with him at all. Experts on this forum can help you to find a lovely stone and setting within your budget. And they have nothing to gain - it's what they enjoy doing. Hope you can win the dispute over the $500. If you paid with a credit card - you can contact your financial institution to help with the dispute. Good luck. :wavey:
 

diamondrookie22

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farrahlyn said:
in your initial post, you said you put down a $500 deposit. Did he resize the ring by YOUR request or did he just go forward on the resizing assuming you'd purchase it? Did you pay with CC?
I did not exactly request it, he asked me her ring size and I told him. I did tell him I was going to purchase it though, which is why I put down the deposit in the first place (yes, with a CC) and then I told him Id come back with the rest of it in cash this week. Then when I went back and told him about my doubts he argued that he already sized it. I never said "size this ring for me", but I did give implications that I wanted to purchase the ring and the diamond when I left there the first time
 

diamondrookie22

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Jul 26, 2016
Messages
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Queenie60|1469634886|4059837 said:
I would dispute that $500 deposit. He can't be too reputable if he is not willing to return a deposit. And once you get your deposit returned, I would not do business with him at all. Experts on this forum can help you to find a lovely stone and setting within your budget. And they have nothing to gain - it's what they enjoy doing. Hope you can win the dispute over the $500. If you paid with a credit card - you can contact your financial institution to help with the dispute. Good luck. :wavey:
I definitely plan on disputing it unless I decide to just buy the ring and get the diamond somewhere else. Thank you!
 

farrahlyn

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diamondrookie22 said:
farrahlyn said:
in your initial post, you said you put down a $500 deposit. Did he resize the ring by YOUR request or did he just go forward on the resizing assuming you'd purchase it? Did you pay with CC?
I did not exactly request it, he asked me her ring size and I told him. I did tell him I was going to purchase it though, which is why I put down the deposit in the first place (yes, with a CC) and then I told him Id come back with the rest of it in cash this week. Then when I went back and told him about my doubts he argued that he already sized it. I never said "size this ring for me", but I did give implications that I wanted to purchase the ring and the diamond when I left there the first time
Yeah, i think he jumped the gun.... however does he have a policy on putting down a deposit? Check the receipt, FB page, visit the store again, etc.

worst comes to worse, like you said you could purchase the setting but you need to insure he's not ripping you off on that.
 

diamondseeker2006

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55,629
I hope you can get out of it just losing the $500 if you cannot find that a deposit is refundable. Don't buy the setting because the stone you end up with may not fit right.

I will tell you that well cut cushions are RARE. When we help someone find one, we can look through 20-50 to find one or two good ones.
 

diamondrookie22

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Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
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farrahlyn|1469636224|4059843 said:
diamondrookie22 said:
farrahlyn said:
in your initial post, you said you put down a $500 deposit. Did he resize the ring by YOUR request or did he just go forward on the resizing assuming you'd purchase it? Did you pay with CC?
I did not exactly request it, he asked me her ring size and I told him. I did tell him I was going to purchase it though, which is why I put down the deposit in the first place (yes, with a CC) and then I told him Id come back with the rest of it in cash this week. Then when I went back and told him about my doubts he argued that he already sized it. I never said "size this ring for me", but I did give implications that I wanted to purchase the ring and the diamond when I left there the first time
Yeah, i think he jumped the gun.... however does he have a policy on putting down a deposit? Check the receipt, FB page, visit the store again, etc.

worst comes to worse, like you said you could purchase the setting but you need to insure he's not ripping you off on that.
I will check in on their site to see if I can find a policy. However, he did tell me (the first time we met) that if I didn't like the ring he will guarantee full refund for 30 days. I will dig to see if I can find more information. He told me yesterday hed give me the setting for $1,000 if i didn't want the diamond, which doesn't seem too crazy.
 

diamondrookie22

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diamondseeker2006|1469636698|4059849 said:
I hope you can get out of it just losing the $500 if you cannot find that a deposit is refundable. Don't buy the setting because the stone you end up with may not fit right.

I will tell you that well cut cushions are RARE. When we help someone find one, we can look through 20-50 to find one or two good ones.
If he refuses to give the $500 back ( I haven't argued that hard yet) and I do not buy the setting, I will put in a dispute with my credit card. I think I have a pretty decent case. Of course my future wife wants the most complicated cut and I know nothing about diamonds :wall:
 

Queenie60

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diamondseeker2006|1469636698|4059849 said:
I hope you can get out of it just losing the $500 if you cannot find that a deposit is refundable. Don't buy the setting because the stone you end up with may not fit right.

I will tell you that well cut cushions are RARE. When we help someone find one, we can look through 20-50 to find one or two good ones.
This is what I say too! Listen to Diamondseeker - she knows her stuff. If he told you that he has a 30 day refund period then your deposit should be completely refundable. You don't want to get stuck with a setting that you may not be able to use. It's always best to find a stone first and then a setting to compliment that stone and the taste of your future wife. Hopefully you can get out of this cheap ($500) and move on to find something lovely within your budget. If you don't get the refund - take it as a learning experience. All of us has had one at sometime or another. Good luck.
 

diamondrookie22

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Queenie60|1469637714|4059858 said:
diamondseeker2006|1469636698|4059849 said:
I hope you can get out of it just losing the $500 if you cannot find that a deposit is refundable. Don't buy the setting because the stone you end up with may not fit right.

I will tell you that well cut cushions are RARE. When we help someone find one, we can look through 20-50 to find one or two good ones.
This is what I say too! Listen to Diamondseeker - she knows her stuff. If he told you that he has a 30 day refund period then your deposit should be completely refundable. You don't want to get stuck with a setting that you may not be able to use. It's always best to find a stone first and then a setting to compliment that stone and the taste of your future wife. Hopefully you can get out of this cheap ($500) and move on to find something lovely within your budget. If you don't get the refund - take it as a learning experience. All of us has had one at sometime or another. Good luck.

Thank you!
 

farrahlyn

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yeah, i'd absolutely remind him that he stated you could return within 30 days and ask for your money back. i don't think you'll have any issue filing a dispute (and winning) with your CC company if you have to.

can i just say i don't love the setting? I love the curves and softness a cushion cut has and the setting doesn't truly complement that softness. It's too angular imo to really set off a cushion cut stone well. If you're looking online for a stone, there are SO MANY setting options to choose from.
 

msop04

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diamondrookie22|1469636920|4059850 said:
He told me yesterday hed give me the setting for $1,000 if i didn't want the diamond, which doesn't seem too crazy.
Don't buy the setting. It's highly unlikely that the cushion you decide on will fit. Honestly, that setting looks very manly/thick and not well made at all -- you can do a lot better, IMO. :halo:
 

dollyanjuli

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msop04|1469645470|4059915 said:
diamondrookie22|1469636920|4059850 said:
He told me yesterday hed give me the setting for $1,000 if i didn't want the diamond, which doesn't seem too crazy.
Don't buy the setting. It's highly unlikely that the cushion you decide on will fit. Honestly, that setting looks very manly/thick and not well made at all -- you can do a lot better, IMO. :halo:
Just chiming in to say that from the pics, the setting looks like a copy of a Tacori. If she wants that kind of setting ( a bit heavier, lots of diamonds on all sides and milgrain etc) and this one is good quality, 1K is actually not a bad price. It's a bit hard to tell from the pics but I have seen a billion Tacori settings as well as "Tacori Like" as many of my friends and relatives have them (Indians like HEAVY settings, delicate ones are considered cheap even though they are usually more). This looks veryyyy similar- picture attached to show what I mean.

Re: the stone not fitting. If you get a stone that is close in size with similar dimensions then because this is not a halo it may work. You will need to ask a jeweler to be sure. So in case they are making a fuss about the 500 and you know your future wifey likes this kind of setting AND you want a similar size stone...you may be ok.

Good luck!

4192786851_d6b8679049.jpg
 

diamondrookie22

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msop04|1469645470|4059915 said:
diamondrookie22|1469636920|4059850 said:
He told me yesterday hed give me the setting for $1,000 if i didn't want the diamond, which doesn't seem too crazy.
Don't buy the setting. It's highly unlikely that the cushion you decide on will fit. Honestly, that setting looks very manly/thick and not well made at all -- you can do a lot better, IMO. :halo:
My future mother in law actually liked the setting (I agreed, but I know nothing). After looking at other pictures online it does look a lot thicker than other cushion cut engagement rings. I will have to try to talk her out of it.
 

dollyanjuli

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diamondrookie22|1469647809|4059930 said:
msop04|1469645470|4059915 said:
diamondrookie22|1469636920|4059850 said:
He told me yesterday hed give me the setting for $1,000 if i didn't want the diamond, which doesn't seem too crazy.
Don't buy the setting. It's highly unlikely that the cushion you decide on will fit. Honestly, that setting looks very manly/thick and not well made at all -- you can do a lot better, IMO. :halo:
My future mother in law actually liked the setting (I agreed, but I know nothing). After looking at other pictures online it does look a lot thicker than other cushion cut engagement rings. I will have to try to talk her out of it.
You should find out if your fiancee likes it before deciding anything. Playing devils advocate, some people LOVE these types of settings. It's funny you say you MIL liked it- my own mother thinks my ring looks cheap because it is so delicate, and told me "when you save your money you can get a better setting". She of course has a tacori knock off :cheeky: Outside of PS there are plenty of people who like bulkier settings. Best to check.
 

diamondrookie22

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dollyanjuli|1469647983|4059932 said:
diamondrookie22|1469647809|4059930 said:
msop04|1469645470|4059915 said:
diamondrookie22|1469636920|4059850 said:
He told me yesterday hed give me the setting for $1,000 if i didn't want the diamond, which doesn't seem too crazy.
Don't buy the setting. It's highly unlikely that the cushion you decide on will fit. Honestly, that setting looks very manly/thick and not well made at all -- you can do a lot better, IMO. :halo:
My future mother in law actually liked the setting (I agreed, but I know nothing). After looking at other pictures online it does look a lot thicker than other cushion cut engagement rings. I will have to try to talk her out of it.
You should find out if your fiancee likes it before deciding anything. Playing devils advocate, some people LOVE these types of settings. It's funny you say you MIL liked it- my own mother thinks my ring looks cheap because it is so delicate, and told me "when you save your money you can get a better setting". She of course has a tacori knock off :cheeky: Outside of PS there are plenty of people who like bulkier settings. Best to check.

Thanks for your advice! This engagement is kind of a surprise so I don't really want her to know im shopping around. I have no idea what kind of band she wants. I focused so much on what type of diamond she wants and just figured the band would be the easy part. I will take a look at her other rings to see her style. After looking at pictures I do think the cushions look better in a skinnier setting the diamond stands out more.
 

farrahlyn

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agreed, some people love a bulkier setting and with lots going on. But, just bc your future MIL likes it tho doesn't mean your F will. I would not want my mom to pick out a ring for me just because our styles are SO DIFFERENT and while she might pick something lovely, it wouldn't be exactly what i want. Maybe question a friend that you trust to keep quiet or see if maybe she has a pinterest page. Most ladies will pin erings they like in hopes their man will see it. :lol: Take a look at her current jewelry, is this the sort of thing she goes for or is she into more simple things or more blingy things?
 

diamondrookie22

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farrahlyn|1469648396|4059935 said:
agreed, some people love a bulkier setting and with lots going on. But, just bc your future MIL likes it tho doesn't mean your F will. I would not want my mom to pick out a ring for me just because our styles are SO DIFFERENT and while she might pick something lovely, it wouldn't be exactly what i want. Maybe question a friend that you trust to keep quiet or see if maybe she has a pinterest page. Most ladies will pin erings they like in hopes their man will see it. :lol: Take a look at her current jewelry, is this the sort of thing she goes for or is she into more simple things or more blingy things?
Honestly, she is more of a simple person. not flashy at all. The more I think about it, the more a thinner band would probably be better. I really just agreed with my MIL cause the side of the ring looks like infinity symbols and my fiancé is obsessed with them. She has a ring and a necklace with the infinity symbol on it. Not sure if that's a valid reason to get a thicker band though. Being a clueless guy sucks :lol:
 
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