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Crown & pavillion angles for a princess cut?

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cutandprice

Rough_Rock
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Oct 6, 2006
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Having researched the ideal proportions (i.e table, depth & crown height) for a princess cut equivalent to an AGA 1A I thought I could more or less expect an ideal cut which would produce a diamond with great sparkle and brilliance. However, during my studies I came across the Crown & Pavillion angles conundrum, which I am led to believe is the single most important factor for the brillance/sparkle of a diamond. I duly searched the forum for info on this but it seems there are no ''ideal'' values for a princess cut. I did manage to come across the values 34 and 41 degrees but I am not sure if these would, in conjunction with the other proportions/measurements, produce a diamond that maximises the sparkle. I intend to buy online and although I know I will have upto 30 days to return the diamond if it isn''t for me, the potential hassle of trying to get my VAT back is enough to persuade me to get it so right that I can almost guarantee (I know this is nearly impossible) that my diamond will be ''ideal''.


Does anyone else have ''ideal'' figures for the crown & pavillion angles for a princess cut? If my diamond fits the AGA 1A rating for all other measurements can I expect a more beautiful stone?


Also, as a slight aside - I went into Hatton Gardens in London (almost equivalent to 47th street NYC) yesterday to compare prices to see if I could get a diamond for around the same figure in this country and I found myself getting very frustrated. Every jeweller I spoke to tried to convince me that colour was the single most important factor in determining the sparkle of a diamond. I felt very uncomfortable because armed with the knowledge I have gained from this forum/site I felt I knew exactly what made a great diamond. One jeweller commented that I had done my homework when I started mentioning the table & depth percentages etc but he still insisted the colour was the most important thing, and not the cut (when I mentioned crown & pavil angles he drew me a diagram to confirm he knew what I was talking about but he didnt give me any info on the angles for the diamonds he was showing me and I didnt dare mention Sarin reports as I already felt like I was being conceited!)


I am amazed at how jewellers still sell diamonds to those that havent educated themselves - purely based on colour and clarity. Another jeweller got visibly angry with me when i suggested that the cut was the most important factor. He started telling me that a D stone would look so much better than a F/G regardless of the cut! I got so annoyed I started to mention this website and the AGA (he hadnt heard of it!) and Dave Atlas and all I got in return was "I have been doing this for 35 years and I know what I am talking about". I felt completely cheated! Either this guy was lying to me - in which case I would never do business with him - or he didn''t know what he was talking about - in which case I still wouldn''t do business with him!!


The internet has enabled information to become available to people who could never have known certain things previously and once more people gain this knowledge I am sure the jewellers will have to change their pitch. I am so grateful to Pricescope - two days of study have enabled me to (almost) confidently contest what a so called ''expert'' with 35 years in the business was telling me. Bravo pricescope (although I did feel a little arrogant contesting the so called experts!)

 
there is no simple answer to c&P angles for princess.
 
Thanks for the quick response. I suspected as much!

Before I came to this site a few days ago I would have bought most diamonds that fitted my budget restrictions. Now I feel a little overwhelmed by what I have learned! Maybe I am trying to find the ''perfect'' diamond when in actual fact the perfect diamond is one that sits on my fiance-to-bes'' finger and makes her happy (seeing as she probably wouldnt notice the difference my ''fine-tuning'' made!).

I am strongly inclined to just buy a signature ideal cut from Blue Nile UK with the best symmetry, colour and clarity I can get for my budget.

Which of these stones would you recommend (if any)?

Stone 1
Carat weight: 0.42
Cut: Signature Princess
Colour: E
Clarity: SI1
Depth %: 69.5%
Table %: 68%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 4.22 x 4.17 x 2.90 mm
Crown height: 9.8%
Length/width ratio: 1.01

Price: $1,142 USD

Stone2
Carat weight: 0.40
Cut: Signature Princess
Colour: D
Clarity: VS2
Depth %: 67.8%
Table %: 69%
Symmetry: Very good
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Faint
Measurements: 4.17 x 4.16 x 2.82 mm
Crown height: 9.5%
Length/width ratio: 1.00

Price: $1,199 USD

What would YOU look for in these measurements/proportions to get a diamond that maximises it sparkle and looks as big as it can considering the carat sizes?

Can anyone else recommend (all you vendors out there) a diamond for around this budget (bear in mind these prices are before 17.5% VAT (& import duty if you are based outside the UK))???
 
Here is a tiny bit of one of AGS'' charts - note there are 2 crown angles and 2 pavilion angles. On top of that there are different charts for 2, 3 and 4 chevron pavilion facets. Ad to this that very few scanners can even resolve the different crown facets from each other and you have a virtual night mare of data for an engineer, let alone a jeweller who left school (as many did) at 16.

60 Princess Sample sm.jpg
 
it is very rude an shilling of me to suggest it - but if you can physically get to a diamond market - conside buying an ASET scope and reading up on the ideal-scope site - watch the little video clips etc.
 
No thats fair enough Garry, I trust that your scopes do actually take a lot of the hard work out of buying diamonds. The cost of the scope could easily be offset by any potential saving on my diamond purchase so I am not averse to the idea. I was just hoping to purchase a diamond online without having to travel to a diamond market! Although maybe I should still use an ASET scope to accept or reject any ''ideal'' cut diamond I order online (although if I have to pay shipping costs each time I return a diamond + the cost of the scope - it may eventually become more expensive than buying from a B&M here in the UK!)

If only money was not a problem...

Thanks for all your help. I have a friend in Aus so maybe I should order from you and have it sent to him - I am travelling to NZ next month and my friend is meeting me there so he could bring it with him. Not sure what extra taxes etc I would have to pay but maybe worth thinking about!
 
Date: 10/9/2006 7:36:51 AM
Author: cutandprice


I am strongly inclined to just buy a signature ideal cut from Blue Nile UK with the best symmetry, colour and clarity I can get for my budget.
At least a complimentary, if not supporting strategy, would be to constrain your search to options with certificates from AGS with 0 for light performance.
 
Shipping to UK costs $16 and takes a few days - we have never had a customer had to pay taxes (Canada does sometimes).
Shipping in Oz is $7 - so it will still cost here too.
 
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