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Coward Cop killers in Dallas

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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What is this world coming to?... :nono:
 

diamondseeker2006

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There are 4 police officers dead now. Let me say very strongly that I am deeply disturbed when bad police kill people seemingly for no justified reason. But using violence to protest violence is going to escalate the whole situation.

2016 needs a Martin Luther King to lead peaceful protests. He was so against hate and violence.
 

redwood66

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I have no idea DF. I have watched some of the interviews and it seems that the protesters were all peaceful but these killers had to have had info ahead of time to set up and plan for this. I am just sick over this kind of incident and the blue families are in my prayers tonight.
 

redwood66

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diamondseeker2006|1467954860|4052903 said:
There are 4 police officers dead now. Let me say very strongly that I am deeply disturbed when bad police kill people seemingly for no justified reason. But using violence to protest violence is going to escalate the whole situation.

2016 needs a Martin Luther King to lead peaceful protests. He was so against hate and violence.
DS I have to say of the tens of thousands of law enforcement officers in the US it seems like the police killing innocent people is rampant when really it is just because of instant media coverage and social media that makes it seem like more. Most cops are good and do their jobs well with integrity. But unless you have lived it you have no idea what a sh*tty job it really is. I will always look at all evidence and investigations before passing judgement on a cop. Sure there are bad cops because it is just a law of averages but a very small percentage.
 

VRBeauty

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:nono: ;(

I'm sorry - words fail in the face of such senselessness.
 

diamondseeker2006

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There are bad teachers, bad doctors, bad police, bad lawyers, bad jewelers, you name it. In no way does it mean all of any group are bad because a few are bad. I cannot imagine being the wife of a police officer or being a police officer myself. There was a case in my hometown last fall where a man was causing problems and the police were called and the policeman ran the guy down and caught him instead of shooting him, and the police officer was the one killed because he chose not to use force. Wife and 6 month old baby at home. So I "get" how some of them may overreact in a situation where they may have fear. But people being stopped supposedly for a tail light out shouldn't be killed either. I am well aware that my children in the same situation would have never been shot, not even a remote chance. Just think of all the times there were no videos.

As I said in the first place regarding the thread topic, violence isn't the answer to violence, ever.
 

redwood66

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I was not bashing you at all DS so please forgive me if it sounded that way. This event and the other thread about bad cops have me quite upset right now. People jump to conclusions about videos and media coverage, some of it looks bad but the whole story is never there at the beginning.
 

AGBF

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redwood66|1467958150|4052912 said:
I was not bashing you at all DS so please forgive me if it sounded that way. This event and the other thread about bad cops have me quite upset right now. People jump to conclusions about videos and media coverage, some of it looks bad but the whole story is never there at the beginning.
No one is jumping to conclusions about the murders of black men by police. We are upset over police murdering civilians because we should be, redwood.

Now we are upset over civilians murdering police. At least I am. Of course it is unacceptable to open fire on the police. It is also a danger to everyone else in a crowded situation. I believe there was at least one civilian death as well as the police deaths.

Deb/AGBF
 

redwood66

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I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k
 

missy

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diamondseeker2006|1467957854|4052911 said:
There are bad teachers, bad doctors, bad police, bad lawyers, bad jewelers, you name it. In no way does it mean all of any group are bad because a few are bad. I cannot imagine being the wife of a police officer or being a police officer myself. There was a case in my hometown last fall where a man was causing problems and the police were called and the policeman ran the guy down and caught him instead of shooting him, and the police officer was the one killed because he chose not to use force. Wife and 6 month old baby at home. So I "get" how some of them may overreact in a situation where they may have fear. But people being stopped supposedly for a tail light out shouldn't be killed either. I am well aware that my children in the same situation would have never been shot, not even a remote chance. Just think of all the times there were no videos.

As I said in the first place regarding the thread topic, violence isn't the answer to violence, ever.
Yes I couldn't agree more with this. Or this.

2016 needs a Martin Luther King to lead peaceful protests. He was so against hate and violence.
MLK Jr. was a great man and he would be turning over in his grave with what is still happening in the world today.


"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

"People fail to get along because they fear each other; they fear each other because they don't know each other; they don't know each other because they have not communicated with each other."

"We must live together as brothers or perish together as fools."

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 

Maria D

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redwood66|1467961726|4052922 said:
I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k
Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.
 

redwood66

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Maria D|1467981663|4052997 said:
redwood66|1467961726|4052922 said:
I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k
Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.
I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.
 

Maria D

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redwood66|1467982748|4053002 said:
Maria D|1467981663|4052997 said:
redwood66|1467961726|4052922 said:
I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k
Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.
I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.
I am not at all fearful that a cop will shoot me out of the blue. I am a middle-aged white woman in America. I think I am pretty much invisible to cops actually. Where did you get the idea that most people fear this? One can, at the same time, feel completely safe around law enforcement in general and be outraged and horrified by violence perpetrated by cops or against cops. The peaceful protestors in Dallas were there WITH local law enforcement.

"That is how criminals are" is not on point in this discussion. This is America. We won't stand for executing people in the street because "that is how criminals are."

Your last 3 sentences are ridiculous. I'm sorry, I tried to think of a more diplomatic way to put it but I just can't. "It will get sorted out and you can complain to superiors later." Really?? When you're DEAD? These sentences are just sad irony. Castile did what he was told to do. (Why he thought the 2nd Amendment was for black men, I'll never understand.) Oh well, I guess it just sucks to be the 0.1%.
 

AGBF

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Maria, both of your postings are right on target. You absolutely nail every point I would have liked to make. Thank you for writing it all out.

Deb :wavey:
 

redwood66

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Well yes this is America and your have your view and I have mine. Yes it does suck to be the 0.1% which is a much smaller percentage than the one someone has in being a victim of a crime committed by a criminal. And hopefully the cops who are guilty of crimes are brought to justice. But that guilty decision is not mine or yours. On point? Execution? Seriously?

ETA - My last 3 sentences are meant as a PSA. Sorry you don't like it but its the truth.
 

ksinger

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redwood66|1467982748|4053002 said:
Maria D|1467981663|4052997 said:
redwood66|1467961726|4052922 said:
I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k
Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.
I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.
So I have to do whatever a cop tells me to, no matter what, so I won't get shot?

So much for "protect and serve".
 

Niel

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redwood66|1467955485|4052906 said:
diamondseeker2006|1467954860|4052903 said:
There are 4 police officers dead now. Let me say very strongly that I am deeply disturbed when bad police kill people seemingly for no justified reason. But using violence to protest violence is going to escalate the whole situation.

2016 needs a Martin Luther King to lead peaceful protests. He was so against hate and violence.
DS I have to say of the tens of thousands of law enforcement officers in the US it seems like the police killing innocent people is rampant when really it is just because of instant media coverage and social media that makes it seem like more. Most cops are good and do their jobs well with integrity. But unless you have lived it you have no idea what a sh*tty job it really is. I will always look at all evidence and investigations before passing judgement on a cop. Sure there are bad cops because it is just a law of averages but a very small percentage.
I guess I don't understand your point here. Killing cops is bad. I think that's about as obvious a statement ever made. DS was staying that it is bad cops are being killed (agreeing with you) and also bad that cops are killing innocent black men. Your counter point is that well it's really not rampant. What are you trying to argue there? Leaving out the fact that killing cops is, again, wrong. What is your comment trying to argue?
 

redwood66

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Niel|1467987399|4053045 said:
redwood66|1467955485|4052906 said:
diamondseeker2006|1467954860|4052903 said:
There are 4 police officers dead now. Let me say very strongly that I am deeply disturbed when bad police kill people seemingly for no justified reason. But using violence to protest violence is going to escalate the whole situation.

2016 needs a Martin Luther King to lead peaceful protests. He was so against hate and violence.
DS I have to say of the tens of thousands of law enforcement officers in the US it seems like the police killing innocent people is rampant when really it is just because of instant media coverage and social media that makes it seem like more. Most cops are good and do their jobs well with integrity. But unless you have lived it you have no idea what a sh*tty job it really is. I will always look at all evidence and investigations before passing judgement on a cop. Sure there are bad cops because it is just a law of averages but a very small percentage.
I guess I don't understand your point here. Killing cops is bad. I think that's about as obvious a statement ever made. DS was staying that it is bad cops are being killed (agreeing with you) and also bad that cops are killing innocent black men. Your counter point is that well it's really not rampant. What are you trying to argue there? Leaving out the fact that killing cops is, again, wrong. What is your comment trying to argue?
My point is that you have no idea from what has been posted if the black men are innocent until the story is complete. I am reading that Alton Sterling was tazed twice before the video. Yet he was still fighting. Nothing confirmed yet.

ksinger - in order for you and the cop to go home (or to jail but alive) yes that is what I am saying. The 0.1% would be the cop that should never have had a badge in the first place.
 

Niel

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redwood66|1467987696|4053048 said:
Niel|1467987399|4053045 said:
redwood66|1467955485|4052906 said:
diamondseeker2006|1467954860|4052903 said:
There are 4 police officers dead now. Let me say very strongly that I am deeply disturbed when bad police kill people seemingly for no justified reason. But using violence to protest violence is going to escalate the whole situation.

2016 needs a Martin Luther King to lead peaceful protests. He was so against hate and violence.
DS I have to say of the tens of thousands of law enforcement officers in the US it seems like the police killing innocent people is rampant when really it is just because of instant media coverage and social media that makes it seem like more. Most cops are good and do their jobs well with integrity. But unless you have lived it you have no idea what a sh*tty job it really is. I will always look at all evidence and investigations before passing judgement on a cop. Sure there are bad cops because it is just a law of averages but a very small percentage.
I guess I don't understand your point here. Killing cops is bad. I think that's about as obvious a statement ever made. DS was staying that it is bad cops are being killed (agreeing with you) and also bad that cops are killing innocent black men. Your counter point is that well it's really not rampant. What are you trying to argue there? Leaving out the fact that killing cops is, again, wrong. What is your comment trying to argue?
My point is that you have no idea from what has been posted if the black men are innocent until the story is complete. I am reading that Alton Sterling was tazed twice before the video. Yet he was still fighting. Nothing confirmed yet.

ksinger - in order for you and the cop to go home (or to jail but alive) yes that is what I am saying. The 0.1% would be the cop that should never have had a badge in the first place.
I guess maybe I'm forming my opinion on the previous numerous examples of cops shooting black men who where not threatening the cops lives. Not just the newest example.

But you're point is valid too. He got tazed twice and was still resisting arrest for not doing anything? Probably deserved those multiple gunshots to the chest.
 

liaerfbv

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Maria D|1467986281|4053025 said:
Your last 3 sentences are ridiculous. I'm sorry, I tried to think of a more diplomatic way to put it but I just can't. "It will get sorted out and you can complain to superiors later." Really?? When you're DEAD? These sentences are just sad irony. Castile did what he was told to do. (Why he thought the 2nd Amendment was for black men, I'll never understand.) Oh well, I guess it just sucks to be the 0.1%.
100%. I saw a great quote online yesterday and I wish I had saved it, but it went something like "Telling black people to follow cops' instructions so they don't die is like telling a woman not to wear a slutty outfit so she doesn't get raped."
 

redwood66

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Niel|1467987975|4053052 said:
But you're point is valid too. He got tazed twice and was still resisting arrest for not doing anything? Probably deserved those multiple gunshots to the chest.
Comply even if you think you're right. He would still be alive. It might sound callous and I cannot speak for the minds of the officers involved but it is the truth.
 

liaerfbv

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redwood66|1467988221|4053057 said:
Niel|1467987975|4053052 said:
But you're point is valid too. He got tazed twice and was still resisting arrest for not doing anything? Probably deserved those multiple gunshots to the chest.
Comply even if you think you're right. He would still be alive. It might sound callous and I cannot speak for the minds of the officers involved but it is the truth.
I think the point is even WITH compliance black people are dying at the hands of law enforcement.
 

liaerfbv

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redwood66|1467988582|4053063 said:

I just briefly skimmed through this, but the main point I took away from it was that because black people commit more crimes than white people do, the instances where law enforcement use deadly force is justified because the statistical analysis of crime shows that black people are arrested more than white people.

If that's not systemic racism at it's finest, I don't know what is.
 

redwood66

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liaerfbv|1467988863|4053066 said:
redwood66|1467988582|4053063 said:

I just briefly skimmed through this, but the main point I took away from it was that because black people commit more crimes than white people do, the instances where law enforcement use deadly force is justified because the statistical analysis of crime shows that black people are arrested more than white people.

If that's not systemic racism at it's finest, I don't know what is.
That is not what is says at all.
 

liaerfbv

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redwood66|1467989047|4053067 said:
liaerfbv|1467988863|4053066 said:
redwood66|1467988582|4053063 said:

I just briefly skimmed through this, but the main point I took away from it was that because black people commit more crimes than white people do, the instances where law enforcement use deadly force is justified because the statistical analysis of crime shows that black people are arrested more than white people.

If that's not systemic racism at it's finest, I don't know what is.
That is not what is says at all.
Are you sure?
 

redwood66

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liaerfbv|1467989150|4053068 said:
redwood66|1467989047|4053067 said:
liaerfbv|1467988863|4053066 said:
redwood66|1467988582|4053063 said:

I just briefly skimmed through this, but the main point I took away from it was that because black people commit more crimes than white people do, the instances where law enforcement use deadly force is justified because the statistical analysis of crime shows that black people are arrested more than white people.

If that's not systemic racism at it's finest, I don't know what is.
That is not what is says at all.
Are you sure?
You just said you didn't read it.
 
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