Countries that do not accept Jewish passports

[ruby59]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/trumps-ban-hits-five-countries-that-ban-jews/news-story/df073174e3bda6834e9d8d9aa84074c5


Interesting.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I did not realize people had to identify their religion on a passport, unless we are actually just talking about Israeli passports.

 

[lovedogs]

I did not realize people had to identify their religion on a passport, unless we are actually just talking about Israeli passports.

The article says that they meant Israeli passport, not all Jewish people. But the article also makes no sense. I have no idea what they are talking about with this:

Temporary ban on (some) people who happen to be Muslim, bad.

Permanent ban on Jews, good.

Something smells here.

Huh?

Somehow the US people who don't like this ban are also responsible for the bans enacted by other countries with unfair rules? Obviously I think banning holders of Israeli passports is really messed up, but the US doesn't do it, so of course the outrage isn't the same as it is when a ban like that is enacted here in the US.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Yup, I was combing for info where it said JEWISH passports not accepted but that does not seem to be the case.

 

[kenny]

What is a 'Jewish passport'?

Are there separate passports for every Christian denomination?
I ask because, aren't there over 40 thousand Christian denominations ... and counting?
Does each maintain a passport office?

They might save money if they combined over similarities instead of 2000 years of splitting up over differences.

I always though of passports as a country thing.
Live and learn.

 

[ruby59]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

 

[VRBeauty]

Israeli passports do not identify the holder's religion.

There are 16 countries that do not accept Israeli passports. Israel does not allow its citizens to travel to 8 countries on an Israeli passport, although Israeli citizens that hold dual citizenship or a passport issued from another country are exempt from these restrictions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

If the argument is that it's OK for the US to ban Muslims because other countries ban Jewish people or people traveling on an Israeli passport... or that those things are comparable... then state that case and let's discuss it.

Because who knows what we might come up with if you just post a link and leave it to the reader to figure out why you did so.

 

[ruby59]

Israeli passports do not identify the holder's religion.

There are 16 countries that do not accept Israeli passports. Israel does not allow its citizens to travel to 8 countries on an Israeli passport, although Israeli citizens that hold dual citizenship or a passport issued from another country are exempt from these restrictions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

If the argument is that it's OK for the US to ban Muslims because other countries ban Jewish people or people traveling on an Israeli passport... or that those things are comparable... then state that case and let's discuss it.

Because who knows what we might come up with if you just post a link and leave it to the reader to figure out why you did so.

Neither is OK, but where is the outrage for when these countries do it?

And in this case it is based solely on religion.

 

[lovedogs]

Israeli passports do not identify the holder's religion.

There are 16 countries that do not accept Israeli passports. Israel does not allow its citizens to travel to 8 countries on an Israeli passport, although Israeli citizens that hold dual citizenship or a passport issued from another country are exempt from these restrictions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

If the argument is that it's OK for the US to ban Muslims because other countries ban Jewish people or people traveling on an Israeli passport... or that those things are comparable... then state that case and let's discuss it.

Because who knows what we might come up with if you just post a link and leave it to the reader to figure out why you did so.

Neither is OK, but where is the outrage for when these countries do it?

And in this case it is based solely on religion.

I explained this above. People typically know less about what other countries are doing compared to their own (and I think people here in the US are particularly guilty of this), and it hits far less close to home when it happens elsewhere. That doesn't mean it's not wrong (it is!), but it's less personal.

 

[arkieb1]

I asked my husband because he has travelled a lot in the Middle East and he says it works like this, people who have Israeli passports are not allowed to enter a list of countries, I couldn't find a 2017 list but here is one from the end of 2015;

Sixteen countries forbid admission to Israeli passport holders:

Algeria
Bangladesh
Brunei
Iran
Iraq (except Iraqi Kurdistan)
Kuwait
Lebanon (neighboring country; territory dispute – Shebaa farms)
Libya
Malaysia (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Home Affairs.)
Oman
Pakistan (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Internal Security.)
Saudi Arabia
Sudan
Syria (neighboring country; territory dispute – Golan Heights)
United Arab Emirates (accepted for transit only; not allowed for admission)
Yemen

And if you thought that was bad, my husband further explained to me that if you are any nationality or religion (like say an Australian or an American) and you have a stamp in your passport that says you have been to Israel, countries like Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen will not allow you to enter their countries.

So naturally I asked so if you have to go into there what happens? And he said he knows a couple of pilots who worked as private corporate pilots doing charters in the Middle East, and occasionally they had to fly into Israel what they have to do when they enter and leave is specifically ask that no stamp is put into their passports showing they have been in and out of Israel because the charter company they work for can sack/fire them because they then will not be allowed to enter the countries I have listed....

 

[maccers]

Ruby, are you trying to equate Trump's ban to Israel's ban on its citizens travelling to certain countries (and conversely certain countries prohibiting Israeli citizens from entering)?

 

[lovedogs]

Ruby, are you trying to equate Trump's ban to Israel's ban on its citizens travelling to certain countries (and conversely certain countries prohibiting Israeli citizens from entering)?

I believe the answer is yes, which is why I am confused. The two things aren't the same. And just because 2 things are bad doesn't negate their "badness". I don't understand why another example of something bad makes what he did ok????

 

[ruby59]

I guess you two missed my reply up thread.


Neither is OK, but where is the outrage for when these countries do it?

And in this case it is based solely on religion.

 

[arkieb1]

I personally in 2017 feel outrage that any country is allowed to do that. The difference is yours is a Western democracy that on paper should know better.

 

[ruby59]

Israeli passports do not identify the holder's religion.

There are 16 countries that do not accept Israeli passports. Israel does not allow its citizens to travel to 8 countries on an Israeli passport, although Israeli citizens that hold dual citizenship or a passport issued from another country are exempt from these restrictions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

If the argument is that it's OK for the US to ban Muslims because other countries ban Jewish people or people traveling on an Israeli passport... or that those things are comparable... then state that case and let's discuss it.

Because who knows what we might come up with if you just post a link and leave it to the reader to figure out why you did so.

Neither is OK, but where is the outrage for when these countries do it?

And in this case it is based solely on religion.

I explained this above. People typically know less about what other countries are doing compared to their own (and I think people here in the US are particularly guilty of this), and it hits far less close to home when it happens elsewhere. That doesn't mean it's not wrong (it is!), but it's less personal.

I have posted with you for a while, and I find this answer totally inadequate. Ignorance is no excuse.

But now you know, and except for Arkie 1, no one seems to be a bit outraged, concerned, taken back, or even giving a damn about it.

 

[lovedogs]

I personally in 2017 feel outrage that any country is allowed to do that. The difference is yours is a Western democracy that on paper should know better.

Agreed. But my point above (pasted again below) was that people feel less strongly outraged by stuff not happening directly to them. That doesn't mean people think it's ok, but that it isn't as "personal" when it isn't happening in your own country. And I believe the US is worse about that compared to other places.

I explained this above. People typically know less about what other countries are doing compared to their own (and I think people here in the US are particularly guilty of this), and it hits far less close to home when it happens elsewhere. That doesn't mean it's not wrong (it is!), but it's less personal.

EDIT: When did I say I wasn't concerned? I just explained why the "outrage" is less.

 

[maccers]

Israeli passports do not identify the holder's religion.

There are 16 countries that do not accept Israeli passports. Israel does not allow its citizens to travel to 8 countries on an Israeli passport, although Israeli citizens that hold dual citizenship or a passport issued from another country are exempt from these restrictions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

If the argument is that it's OK for the US to ban Muslims because other countries ban Jewish people or people traveling on an Israeli passport... or that those things are comparable... then state that case and let's discuss it.

Because who knows what we might come up with if you just post a link and leave it to the reader to figure out why you did so.

Neither is OK, but where is the outrage for when these countries do it?

And in this case it is based solely on religion.

I explained this above. People typically know less about what other countries are doing compared to their own (and I think people here in the US are particularly guilty of this), and it hits far less close to home when it happens elsewhere. That doesn't mean it's not wrong (it is!), but it's less personal.

I have posted with you for a while, and I find this answer totally inadequate. Ignorance is no excuse.

But now you know, and except for Arkie 1, no one seems to be a bit outraged, concerned, taken back, or even giving a damn about it.

I've known about this for...20 years? I met many Israelis when travelling and they are very pragmatic about it. And they also acknowledge that it cuts both ways (their country bans another and that other country bans Israelis). I'd have to think about it some more but I don't think it's quite the same thing to Trump's ban. If you or I were to go to Israeli and then try to enter one of the prohibited countries, we might not be allowed to enter either because we have an Israeli stamp in our passport. I'm not saying this is acceptable but it's certainly not a new issue and it's not fair but it's not a corollary to Trump's ban.

 

[kenny]

With Cheeto spreading the love, how long till 16 countries deny Americans visas?

 

[AGBF]

There are 16 countries that do not accept Israeli passports.

...​

If the argument is that it's OK for the US to ban Muslims because other countries ban Jewish people or people traveling on an Israeli passport... or that those things are comparable... then state that case and let's discuss it.

Neither is OK, but where is the outrage for when these countries do it?

I have close family in Israel, ruby, as I have stated. Not only does my husband's only sister live there, but her grandson, who has lived here in the US for the past 15 years and is like a son to me, is still an Israeli citizen.

However...I am an American. I feel responsible for what my country does, not for what other countries, some of which I might consider barbaric, do. I am sure that some of the countries which bar Israelis are countries which do other things of which I disapprove.
I am not going to protest all the policies of every country in the world with equal vigor.

If I were going to protest every bad policy in every other country in the world I would never have time to sleep! Even if I protested only the most wicked policies in the largest and most powerful countries in the world I would have no time to sleep. There is just far too much that needs protesting, far too much going on in the world that should provoke outrage from any decent human being.

Deb

 

[VRBeauty]

Well there are a few differences. Number one in my book is that these other countries were not imposing a ban on my behalf. Secondly, the US is a nation that separates church and state. Most of these countries don't do that; they require at least that their president or head of state belong to a specified religion. I realize Trump's order is based on country rather than religion, but there is also evidence that it was his goal to ban Muslims, but to do it in such a way that it would pass constitutional muster. Third, the breadth of Trump's ban - including green card holders (parts of which were later walked back) is unprecedented. Fourth, the way in which the ban was implemented was clumsy and unnecessarily disruptive - some would say punitive - and without regard for the impact it would have on people who already live in the US or already have visas/green cards in hand. This includes people who had already made preparations to MOVE to the US and found themselves suddenly without a country to move to, and potentially people whose lives might be endangered by being returned to their homeland. Add to that the fact that the whole thing didn't need to be this disruptive; but apparently Trump or Bannon insisted on doing this without consulting the federal staff who are experts in this area and could have helped them avoid some of the pitfalls. And that the order was issued on a Friday night, when it would be most difficult for those experts to help clarify it and smooth the implementation, and for the press to report on it... but that was just a coincidence, I'm sure.

That's just for starters.

 

[daintyG]

I asked my husband because he has travelled a lot in the Middle East and he says it works like this, people who have Israeli passports are not allowed to enter a list of countries, I couldn't find a 2017 list but here is one from the end of 2015;

Sixteen countries forbid admission to Israeli passport holders:

Algeria
Bangladesh
Brunei
Iran
Iraq (except Iraqi Kurdistan)
Kuwait
Lebanon (neighboring country; territory dispute – Shebaa farms)
Libya
Malaysia (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Home Affairs.)
Oman
Pakistan (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Internal Security.)
Saudi Arabia
Sudan
Syria (neighboring country; territory dispute – Golan Heights)
United Arab Emirates (accepted for transit only; not allowed for admission)
Yemen

And if you thought that was bad, my husband further explained to me that if you are any nationality or religion (like say an Australian or an American) and you have a stamp in your passport that says you have been to Israel, countries like Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen will not allow you to enter their countries.

So naturally I asked so if you have to go into there what happens? And he said he knows a couple of pilots who worked as private corporate pilots doing charters in the Middle East, and occasionally they had to fly into Israel what they have to do when they enter and leave is specifically ask that no stamp is put into their passports showing they have been in and out of Israel because the charter company they work for can sack/fire them because they then will not be allowed to enter the countries I have listed....

I once worked with a gal from Lebanon. I told her that I had dreamed of visiting Lebanon and Israel. She told me that if I had one stamp on my passport, I could not get into the other country (so basically, pick one you want to visit!).

 

[AGBF]

I once worked with a gal from Lebanon. I told her that I had dreamed of visiting Lebanon and Israel. She told me that if I had one stamp on my passport, I could not get into the other country (so basically, pick one you want to visit!).

This is not true (that one has to choose). These "rules" (about being unable to go to Israel if you have been to an Arab country and vice versa) have been in effect for as long as I can remember. The countries involved almost always accommodate the traveler by stamping something (like a removable visa) or being willing not to stamp anything. International commerce would be impossible of people didn't play the game. Then, of course, many people have several passports as well. At one point I had two from different countries (The US and Italy).

AGBF

 

[arkieb1]

I once worked with a gal from Lebanon. I told her that I had dreamed of visiting Lebanon and Israel. She told me that if I had one stamp on my passport, I could not get into the other country (so basically, pick one you want to visit!).

This is not true (that one has to choose). These "rules" (about being unable to go to Israel if you have been to an Arab country and vice versa) have been in effect for as long as I can remember. The countries involved almost always accommodate the traveler by stamping something (like a removable visa) or being willing not to stamp anything. International commerce would be impossible of people didn't play the game. Then, of course, many people have several passports as well. At one point I had two from different countries (The US and Italy).

AGBF

Yes as I explained above that is exactly how it works you simply explain to the customs officials in each country you want to go to multiple countries (whichever ones on that list) and why and they don't stamp anything or they stamp a removable piece of paper instead.

 

[missy]

Quite obviously it is not the same thing. The USA cannot be compared to these 16 countries for many reasons. We need to be held to a higher standard.

I truly loathe politics and all that goes along with it and because of that am not the most well versed regarding many issues but I will say from my novice perspective it should all be condemned. The reason Israel is not allowed into these 16 countries is (mainly) because many Israelis are jewish so yes it is mostly a religion thing. Having said that these countries are not the USA and should not and cannot be held to the same expectations as the USA.

Totally agree Arkie.

I personally in 2017 feel outrage that any country is allowed to do that. The difference is yours is a Western democracy that on paper should know better.

Personally I have no desire to visit any country that doesn't want me so no loss IMO. However that this ban on Israelis still exists is wrong and the UN should not allow any country who is a member to refuse entry to someone just because of their religion. And that includes the USA too.

Yes as others here have mentioned there are ways to circumvent this ban and play the game so to speak. But why should a game have to be played to enter a country simply because one is Israeli or has just visited Israel?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

Yes we need to screen and make sure who we are letting in are people who want to do no harm but this is not the way to do it. And I am sad and yes embarrassed we as a country have elected a man like this to be our President.

Another interesting development.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.768107

 

[Tekate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

I have friends from Israel who are Catholic.

 

[missy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

I have friends from Israel who are Catholic.

Yes of course not every Israeli is Jewish but Kate don't you think the main reason for the ban is because they don't want Jewish people entering? Let's face it the Jewish people are hated by many all over the world.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rochel-leah-boteach/why-they-hate-the-jews_b_6645916.html

snip

Why are the Jews so hated? Why do we always have to be the object of somebody’s wrath? Throughout history, the Jewish nation has been the target of such fervent animosity, it boggles the mind to see how we’ve actually made it. Whether it be Haman, or Pharaoh, inquisitions or crusades, pogroms or even an all out Holocaust — anti Semitism has always been raging through the veins of the nations of the world. Today, nothing has changed.

 

[arkieb1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

I have friends from Israel who are Catholic.

The countries listed above don't care what religion or nationality you are if you live there, or if you travel to there, you can be from another planet, they will not allow you to enter their particular country if you have a stamp from Israel period.

Yes Missy unfortunately that is entirely it, those countries do not want Jewish or anyone that works or associates with anyone that is Jewish to enter their countries. The hatred there is that strong.

 

[missy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport

I have friends from Israel who are Catholic.

The countries listed above don't care what religion or nationality you are if you live there, or if you travel to there, you can be from another planet, they will not allow you to enter their particular country if you have a stamp from Israel period.

Yes Missy unfortunately that is entirely it, those countries do not want Jewish or anyone that works or associates with anyone that is Jewish to enter their countries. The hatred there is that strong.

Thanks Arkieb. I appreciate that you recognize that fact. It makes me sad but of course I am American and the USA must represent what is right and fair and we are not doing that with Trump as President and I (non religiously) pray that somehow this mess will be straightened out so people can come back here and make a good life for themselves here. What is happening is wrong on so many levels and my heart aches for all the people affected.


Another interesting commentary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/why-do-people-hate-jews-and-judaism-commentary/2015/05/21/52f934e8-ffd8-11e4-8c77-bf274685e1df_story.html?utm_term=.34a9b89c39ca

Why do people hate Jews and Judaism? (COMMENTARY)

By Benjamin Blech | Religion News Service May 21, 2015

NEW YORK — As Jews around the world prepare to celebrate the holiday of Shavuot commemorating the acceptance of the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai, we are profoundly disturbed by the resurgence of global anti-Semitism. What seems not sufficiently understood is the deep connection between these two, Sinai and anti-Semitism.

The link between the two can allow us to resolve one of the most perplexing questions surrounding the history of the Jewish people.




Seven decades after the Holocaust, the hatred of Jews and Judaism has reappeared with a vengeance in the major capitals of Europe. In the contemporary disguise of anti-Zionism, once again it made its way around the world. Jews as a people and Israel as their land are once more the scapegoats responsible for all the world’s ills and the cause of all of its wrongs.

For the longest time, scholars have attempted to understand what is it about Jews that made them the focus of this obsessive animosity. As fewer than one quarter of 1 percent of the world’s population, what could possibly have turned them into the supreme villains of mankind? And how did countries with not even a single Jew become rabid anti-Semites?

The question is so perplexing that many have simply given up trying to come up with an answer. Elie Wiesel, the Nobel Prize winner and Holocaust survivor, concluded that the endurance of anti-Semitism remains a mystery; he described anti-Semitism as an “irrational disease.” The unsolvable puzzle, he said, is that “the world has changed in the last 2,000 years, and only anti-Semitism has remained. . The only disease that has not found its cure is anti-Semitism.”

Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, expressed the fear that “we currently face as great a threat to the safety and security of the Jewish people as the one we faced in the 1930s — if not a greater one,” but he could find no better explanation for its persistent presence other than calling it “a spiritual and psychological illness.”

True, reasons for anti-Semitism have often been offered. Their obvious error invariably was the inherent contradiction of their explanations. Jews were despised because they were too liberal — and also because they were too conservative. They were too cheap and of course they were also too spendthrift; too passive and too pushy; too charitable and too selfish; too religious and too secular.

Pick any characteristic and Jews have been blamed either for possessing too much of it or not having it at all. Jews have been the scapegoats for the sins of every political system. Max Nordau, the great Zionist leader, had it right: “The Jews are not hated because they have evil qualities; evil qualities are sought for in them because they are hated.”

Still, that begs the question: Why?

A little over a century ago, with the beginning of the Zionist movement, Jews thought they at last had found the answer. Theodore Herzl fervently believed that it was all because the Jews had no land of their own. Stateless, they were natural victims. Only their abnormal political reality caused them to become international pariahs. No longer homeless, with Israel Jews would find acceptance and universal respect.

Yet the state of Israel has disabused Jews of Hertzl’s response to anti-Semitism. If anything, Jews with a state of their own have become far more vulnerable to the world’s hostility. Israel has the dubious distinction of being the only member of the United Nations whose right to exist is regularly challenged and whose elimination from the world map is the aim of other U.N. member states.

What then is the answer to the reason for anti-Semitism?

The rabbis of the Talmud saw it in the very name of the mountain on which the Ten Commandments were given. “Sinai” in Hebrew is similar to the word “sinah” — hatred. It was the Jews’ acceptance of a higher law of morality and ethics that was responsible for the world’s enmity.

Jews were the first to preach the message of the Ten Commandments, that worship of God includes the second tablet of respect for fellow mankind. As the mother religion of both Christianity and Islam, Judaism pioneered the ideal of the holy and the human need for acting in accord with divine law. But anti-Semitism stands in opposition to the very idea of civilization. It detests Jews because it acknowledges that Jews are the conscience of humanity and the lawgivers of ethical and moral behavior.


Amazingly enough, Adolf Hitler dared to verbalize it as justification for his plan for genocide of the Jewish people: “Conscience is a Jewish invention like circumcision. My task is to free men from the dirty and degrading ideas of conscience and morality.”

As Jews prepare to celebrate the reception of the Ten Commandments, anti-Semitism ought to be viewed as a badge of honor. Jews are hated not because they are bad but because they persist in reminding the world of what it means to be good. Anti-Semitism is nothing less than a visceral reaction to the cry of a guilty conscience.

(Rabbi Benjamin Blech is professor of Talmud at Yeshiva University in New York.)

 

[arkieb1]

Missy I think you were one of the few that grasped what I was saying above, neither situation is right or fair, the difference is that the situation in the Middle East is complex involving a long history of war, displacement and religious and racial hatred. A Western democracy such as yours with a constitution built around the notion of the religious right to freedom of your citizens shouldn't be accepting, tolerating or encouraging similar behaviour.

 

[missy]

Agreed Arkie. Cannot compare the 2.

Though as I posted above I don't think it is OK (IMO) to do nothing while other countries continue to practice hateful behavior against anyone but what can I expect given that IMO a lot of the UN members are anti semitic. It scares me because anti semitism is on the rise and if you read any of the links I shared above you might understand why I am concerned. I have been protected most of my life living where I do but I am painfully cognizant of what is happening all around the world. In 2017 and as Elie Wiesel wrote not much has changed sadly regarding anti semitism.


But yes, getting back to what you wrote- we have a separation of Church and State here and protection from religion as well as the freedom to practice whatever religion you may want to and the freedom to not practice any religion. And that must be protected.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

Three central concepts were derived from the 1st Amendment which became America's doctrine for church-state separation: no coercion in religious matters, no expectation to support a religion against one's will, and religious liberty encompasses all religions. In sum, citizens are free to embrace or reject a faith, any support for religion - financial or physical - must be voluntary, and all religions are equal in the eyes of the law with no special preference or favoritism