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Could my AGS certified diamond really be a moissanite?

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gammongirl

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I''m worried that a diamond that came with an AGS certification might be a moissanite!!!

Today, my partner took the diamond ring we purchased from a reputable jewelery store @ two years ago to another reputable jewelry store to have the stone re-set in a new setting. When they were measuring and checking the stone against the AGS paperwork, the moissanite tester gave the most unsettling results: when checking the top of the stone the tester indicated it was a moissanite, when checking the sides the tester also indicated moissanite the majority of times (@6-7) and diamond 1-2 times. Of course it''s possible that the tester malfunctioned - but they checked a bunch of other rings and the tester indicated diamond every time on every part of the stone.

We''ve contacted the store where we bought the ring and things are underway to have the stone tested and get to the bottom of this. In the meantime, I could use a little education... (1) The stone came with AGS certification. I seem to remember that the id# was laser inscribed into the stone and we''ll look into that. But, it is possible that either the certification is fake or that the stone is fake? Like I said, the store has been in the community for over 40 years and is very well known and respected. I would expect that even if a supplier tried to dupe the store, their in-house gemologist wouldn''t have been duped. How can this be explained? (2) Assuming the tester/machine was working properly, what could explain different parts of the stone testing as diamond and other parts moissanite? (3) Is it possible to have the stone tested without removing it from its current platinum setting? Thanks!
 

Wink

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Date: 4/19/2009 10:38:56 PM
Author:gammongirl
I''m worried that a diamond that came with an AGS certification might be a moissanite!!!


Today, my partner took the diamond ring we purchased from a reputable jewelery store @ two years ago to another reputable jewelry store to have the stone re-set in a new setting. When they were measuring and checking the stone against the AGS paperwork, the moissanite tester gave the most unsettling results: when checking the top of the stone the tester indicated it was a moissanite, when checking the sides the tester also indicated moissanite the majority of times (@6-7) and diamond 1-2 times. Of course it''s possible that the tester malfunctioned - but they checked a bunch of other rings and the tester indicated diamond every time on every part of the stone.


We''ve contacted the store where we bought the ring and things are underway to have the stone tested and get to the bottom of this. In the meantime, I could use a little education... (1) The stone came with AGS certification. I seem to remember that the id# was laser inscribed into the stone and we''ll look into that. But, it is possible that either the certification is fake or that the stone is fake? Like I said, the store has been in the community for over 40 years and is very well known and respected. I would expect that even if a supplier tried to dupe the store, their in-house gemologist wouldn''t have been duped. How can this be explained? (2) Assuming the tester/machine was working properly, what could explain different parts of the stone testing as diamond and other parts moissanite? (3) Is it possible to have the stone tested without removing it from its current platinum setting? Thanks!
Depending on the mounting it should be possible to see at least part of the AGS engraving unless the prongs are very wide or it is bezel set. Also under a microscope doubling of the back facets or of the table reflection will reveal the double refractive nature of moissanite, lack of them indicates that the stone is singly refractive and thus can not be moissanite.

Pulling the stone and weighing it can also confirm the identity of the gem. If you have this done I recommend not doing it at the current store but rather finding an independent store or appraiser with no interest in the outcome to do the confirmation.

Wink
 

DiamondExpert

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...adding to what Wink said, I''d put it another way...your so called reputable jewelery store (jeweler) is a moron and a fraud!

Any jeweler, asked to evaluate a diamond, regardless of where it was purchased, has in inherent conflict of interest. That''s why we encourage clients to have the stone evaluated by an INDEPENDENT appraiser (someone who does not sell diamonds!!).

Get the job done properly, and save yourself becoming a victim of your own circumstances! Never underestimate the length to which someone will go to take your $!
 

strmrdr

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kcoursolle

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I think an *independent* appraisal is in order and probably a change in jewelers. I can usually see a strange greenish tint to moissanites. Does your stone have a warmish tint, what color is the on the certificate?
 

oldmancoyote

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The testers work on a combination of electrical and thermal conductivity. Having the stone set in a metal ring, particularly if the setting is fairly "closed" (e.g. bezel) is a good recipe for fooling the tester.

In addition, as others have said, there are safer (and more professional) ways to distinguish a moissanite from a diamond.
 

denverappraiser

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Visually telling the difference between moissonite and diamond is really pretty easy although it does take a little bit of practice. It's not necessary to damage the mounting job. Any capable gemologist can do it in a few seconds with nothing more than a loupe and a decent light. The electronic testers add a certain amount of satisfaction for customers who like to see the light and hear the beep but if the grader knew what they were doing, they already knew the answer before they even powered on the tool. That part is just a demonstration.

It's clear the person doing the 'test' didn't know what they were doing and I wouldn't give them much credibility. At the same time, they've put a cloud of doubt over your jeweler and this will nag at you until you have it done right. Just because they were a fool doesn't make them wrong after all. Find an actual expert and get to the bottom of it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

Ellen

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Date: 4/20/2009 7:01:24 AM
Author: oldmancoyote
The testers work on a combination of electrical and thermal conductivity. Having the stone set in a metal ring, particularly if the setting is fairly ''closed'' (e.g. bezel) is a good recipe for fooling the tester.

In addition, as others have said, there are safer (and more professional) ways to distinguish a moissanite from a diamond.
It sounds like it worked properly on other "rings" though, not just diamonds, from what the OP said here:

"but they checked a bunch of other rings and the tester indicated diamond every time on every part of the stone"




gg, let us know how it goes!
 

Stone-cold11

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Date: 4/20/2009 8:02:12 AM
Author: Ellen
Date: 4/20/2009 7:01:24 AM

Author: oldmancoyote

The testers work on a combination of electrical and thermal conductivity. Having the stone set in a metal ring, particularly if the setting is fairly ''closed'' (e.g. bezel) is a good recipe for fooling the tester.


In addition, as others have said, there are safer (and more professional) ways to distinguish a moissanite from a diamond.
It sounds like it worked properly on other ''rings'' though, not just diamonds, from what the OP said here:

''but they checked a bunch of other rings and the tester indicated diamond every time on every part of the stone''

gg, let us know how it goes!
I guess that depends on what kind of setting is OP''s ring and compare with the settings the other rings? I would not brush off that explanation just yet.
 

purrfectpear

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It''s pretty easy to tell the difference between moissanite and a real diamond. I find it hard to believe that a jeweler cannot do it? Time for a new jeweler for sure.
 

JasonFaber

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It''s very easy to find out what the stone is...

CZ/Moissanite = are almost always perfect color (D) and it is extremely rare to have any inclusions (IF)

If you can see any inclusions inside the diamond and/or are able to distinguish the color of the diamond and it is below "D" in color you should be fine.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 4/20/2009 10:54:29 AM
Author: JasonFaber
It''s very easy to find out what the stone is...

CZ/Moissanite = are almost always perfect color (D) and it is extremely rare to have any inclusions (IF)

If you can see any inclusions inside the diamond and/or are able to distinguish the color of the diamond and it is below ''D'' in color you should be fine.
I don''t know about this
, I don''t know much about moissanite but I was under the impression these have a tint to them....
 

JasonFaber

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Date: 4/20/2009 10:56:57 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/20/2009 10:54:29 AM
Author: JasonFaber
It''s very easy to find out what the stone is...

CZ/Moissanite = are almost always perfect color (D) and it is extremely rare to have any inclusions (IF)

If you can see any inclusions inside the diamond and/or are able to distinguish the color of the diamond and it is below ''D'' in color you should be fine.
I don''t know about this
, I don''t know much about moissanite but I was under the impression these have a tint to them....

According to Diamond Nexus Labs moissanite appears slightly green or gray, which is not the same as the yellow/warm tint that regular diamonds have.
 

Stone-cold11

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Date: 4/20/2009 11:07:54 AM
Author: JasonFaber

According to Diamond Nexus Labs moissanite appears slightly green or gray, which is not the same as the yellow/warm tint that regular diamonds have.
As long as it has a color tint it is not a colorless D right? Color grading of a diamond does not have to be yellow, just a tint of color, any color.
 

oldminer

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Few Moissanites are D color. Maybe some are, but most were sold before they perfected the formulation. I have owned a Moissanite tester for years and have yet to need it to confirm even one stone was, or was not, a diamond or an imitation. I''d say CZ is a better all around substitute for diamond. Moissanite has a nice sparkly look to it, but it does not get past a trained gemologist who takes the time to look into the material, espcially solitaire sized ones. Tiny Moissanites are harder to tell apart from diamonds than larger ones. Still, there are visual clues for an observant and trained observer.
 

JSM

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Diamond Nexus Labs is hardly a reputable source!

And I also thought that any tint to a stone would disqualify it from being ''D'' in color.

I''ve seen moissanite, and it does not look like a diamond up close; to my eyes, it''s very easy to tell the difference. A new jeweler/independent appraisal would be be the best way to go.
 

amyjokerette

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Date: 4/20/2009 10:54:29 AM
Author: JasonFaber

CZ/Moissanite = are almost always perfect color (D)
That is not really true. I owned a moissanite as my engagement ring stone for 3 years before we upgraded to a diamond. Even though we got a "pretty good" moissanite, in person there was always a slight greenish tint, especially when held next to friends colorless diamonds. In photographs the green showed up even more!! Also... after 3 years of wear when I viewed it under a loop I started seeing tiny little chips and dings on it which would not happen to the same extent with a diamond. Most experts can tell without the use of a tester by using a loop and some light.

Below you can see the green I am talking about. If yours looks white, and you bought it as a diamond, then it probably is a real diamond and and this jeweler got you worried for nothing. I would definitely take it somewhere else to have it looked at and tested again.

moissanite_amyjokerette.jpg
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/20/2009 10:54:29 AM
Author: JasonFaber
It''s very easy to find out what the stone is...


CZ/Moissanite = are almost always perfect color (D) and it is extremely rare to have any inclusions (IF)


If you can see any inclusions inside the diamond and/or are able to distinguish the color of the diamond and it is below ''D'' in color you should be fine.
careful there, there is lightly colored CZ on the market(H-I) and Moissanite has a distinct color in larger sizes.
It is possible for CZ to have gas bubble like inclusions.
There have also been cases of inclusions being lasered into CZ
 

amyjokerette

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Date: 4/20/2009 11:58:59 AM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 4/20/2009 10:54:29 AM

careful there, there is lightly colored CZ on the market(H-I) and Moissanite has a distinct color in larger sizes.

It is possible for CZ to have gas bubble like inclusions.

There have also been cases of inclusions being lasered into CZ
strmrdr: Would they laser inclusions into CZ''s to make them pass as real diamonds!!?? oh my goodness!
 

strmrdr

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Date: 4/20/2009 12:22:20 PM
Author: amyjokerette
Date: 4/20/2009 11:58:59 AM

Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/20/2009 10:54:29 AM


careful there, there is lightly colored CZ on the market(H-I) and Moissanite has a distinct color in larger sizes.


It is possible for CZ to have gas bubble like inclusions.


There have also been cases of inclusions being lasered into CZ

strmrdr: Would they laser inclusions into CZ''s to make them pass as real diamonds!!?? oh my goodness!
yes it has been done to fool the CZ dont have inclusions crowd.
 

gammongirl

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Thanks for the feedback. This certainly has been an education. We''re definitely going to have it appraised independently. Any idea how much that should cost?

To answer some of your questions: It''s listed as "G" color on the certificate. I''ve never really noticed a green tint, but also haven''t noticed a warm tint either. When looking at photographs I can make out some green, but I never noticed this before, and in some pictures I also see blue and some red. I''ll attach a few picture to see what you think. And, the setting is platinum.

100_0811.jpg
 

Gypsy

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Most of the tint in your pics looks like it''s coming from the countertops or your clothing, or the room. Take it to an INDEPENDANT appraiser.
 

Wink

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Date: 4/20/2009 12:25:51 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/20/2009 12:22:20 PM
Author: amyjokerette

Date: 4/20/2009 11:58:59 AM

Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/20/2009 10:54:29 AM


careful there, there is lightly colored CZ on the market(H-I) and Moissanite has a distinct color in larger sizes.


It is possible for CZ to have gas bubble like inclusions.


There have also been cases of inclusions being lasered into CZ

strmrdr: Would they laser inclusions into CZ''s to make them pass as real diamonds!!?? oh my goodness!
yes it has been done to fool the CZ dont have inclusions crowd.
Which is sad as some CZ''s do have inclusions. The ones that I have seen are usually very small white inclusions that were NOT put there intentionally.

Also, there are now CZ''s on the market that have various degrees of faint yellow coloring in them. G-H, J-K are popular colors for CZ fans who do not wish to use the D colors. As Storm and others have commented, most moissanite will have coloration that would put them in the I-J color range and below and that color is most often a greenish type color that many find objectionable. (Myself included, it is not a color I expect or want to see in a diamond or in a stone b eing used to simulate a diamond.)

Wink
 

Ellen

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Date: 4/21/2009 1:21:28 AM
Author: gammongirl
Thanks for the feedback. This certainly has been an education. We're definitely going to have it appraised independently. Any idea how much that should cost?

To answer some of your questions: It's listed as 'G' color on the certificate. I've never really noticed a green tint, but also haven't noticed a warm tint either. When looking at photographs I can make out some green, but I never noticed this before, and in some pictures I also see blue and some red. I'll attach a few picture to see what you think. And, the setting is platinum.
It will vary a bit from region to region, appraiser to appraiser, but on average about 100-150.

And I agree that your counter is probably adding to the tint of the diamond.

Do let us know how it goes. I hope it turns out well.
 

gammongirl

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Again, thank you for all of the feedback. Unfortunately, we''re not going to be able to get it to the appraiser until early next week. I will definitely post the outcome once we hear!

Since patience is not my best quality, I''m hoping people will help keep me from staring at the ring and going loopy until next week by checking out some additional pictures of the ring for me- this is simply to entertain my fantasy that one of my photos will either CLEARLY show green tint or CLEARLY show that warm yellow tone mentioned earlier. If not, just enjoy the pictures of the ring whatever the stone turns out to be and we''ll get the real answer next week. I also plan to read up on how to take a quality photo of the ring. Until then, I''m posting a photo that does not have the green and tan countertop in the background.

One more thing, what would be a reasonable price to pay for this appraisal? Thanks!

IMG_5050.jpg
 

gammongirl

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the next two seem greenish to me - but I''m not sure how to tell if it''s just reflecting other things in the room, or if the flash has something to do with it...

100_0788.jpg
 
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