Corundum Heating? Affect on value? Resale?

[psproot12]

I am seeing some insanely low prices on rubies and sapphire online, even some that claim to be "unheated/untreated" for only a few hundred per carat! With good clarity! Of course I know 90% of these will be b.s. but I'd love to know about

1.What treatments are considered acceptable, if any.
2.Different types of heating/other treatments.
3. Affect of treatments on price.
4.% that I can get back if I HAD to resell these.
5. I've heard AGL is better for colored stones, is this true?

 

[minousbijoux]

Why don't you start here:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

 

[psproot12]

Thanks, looks really helpful

 

[minousbijoux]

You are quite welcome. Also, you probably noticed that there is another thread currently asking the exact same question, and I know there was one a few months back as well. If you do a search here for terms like "heated vs. unheated sapphires" or "value of heat treated" and various others, you are likely to find it and old one that had more data and some of our Trade members weighing in.

 

[psproot12]

Thanks, I read through it and a few other threads as well. I am now much more educated on the topic!

 

[chrono]

Because there are different "levels" of heat, you need to understand whether it has been diffused, flux healed or more. Whether it is acceptable is your personal tolerance but in general, "low" heat only is accepted by the trade. By "low" heat, I mean just heated without added fillers, minerals and flux healing. The below has links and explanation to more than you ever want to know.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/[/URL]

Pricing depends on the level and type of treatment. The more highly treated it is, the lower the value. Of course, an untreated stone with poor colour also has low value so regardless of treatment, colour is still a very important factor. Gem resale is generally dismal unless you have an extraordinary stone (large size, top colour and untreated). Depending on your location, AGL is very highly regarded in the world. GIA, SSEF and Gubelin are also very highly respected labs.

 

[psproot12]

Thanks for the advice! And I know resale value even for great gems is rarely above 50%, I just meant if I quickly needed to liquidate assets would I be able to get anything for a heat only gem.

 

[minousbijoux]

I imagine you'd be able to sell it but there are no guarantees and it depends upon a lot of factors including the quality of the stone. You also likely would need to be patient. The real problem with folks like us wanting to sell is that there is no real venue for selling stones other than ebay and places like FB where people get to know and trust each other.

 

[psproot12]

True, and Ebay generally sells way below the market because there are so many listing on there. Some of those deals 10% are amazing 90% are crap, heated, lead filled, oiled crap.

 

[chrono]

Thanks for the advice! And I know resale value even for great gems is rarely above 50%, I just meant if I quickly needed to liquidate assets would I be able to get anything for a heat only gem.

It depends on 2 things:
1. Quality of the sapphire
2. Whether you happen to have someone looking for that exact sapphire at that time because trying to get the best price means being patient until the right buyer comes along (who thinks it is worth the asking price).

 

[SB621]

Thanks for the advice! And I know resale value even for great gems is rarely above 50%, I just meant if I quickly needed to liquidate assets would I be able to get anything for a heat only gem.

This is more of a rant vs. answering your question but diamonds and colored stones are hardly ever a good item to be considered an investment. If you need to liqudate by HAPPY if you get 50% off the bat. Most are not so lucky and it can take long periods of time to sell.

 

[psproot12]

Thanks for the advice! And I know resale value even for great gems is rarely above 50%, I just meant if I quickly needed to liquidate assets would I be able to get anything for a heat only gem.

This is more of a rant vs. answering your question but diamonds and colored stones are hardly ever a good item to be considered an investment. If you need to liqudate by HAPPY if you get 50% off the bat. Most are not so lucky and it can take long periods of time to sell.

I know, I didn't expect to get 50%, I meant that 50% would be a price you can "rarely" expect for "great" gems. Also, thanks Chrono for the tip, I get know that patients is key.

 

[GemAgents1]

If you go back 10+ years the consumer was not as aware as we are today and most dealers would just tell you assume heat. The reason is because most of the rough coming out of mines in Thailand and Madagascar for example, would basically heat the rough just as it was coming out. Some finer goods didn't necessarily need heat and would be put aside but the full on heated or unheated distinction was not cared for as much. Today the market is quite different and its almost as if there are two separate markets and two separate price lists for heated and unheated. The only thing that I can compare it to is the stock market. Look at heated stones as penny stocks, if you buy a fine stone like you would a fine penny stock, you would be able to sell and potentially profit from the stone. An unheated is like shares of google, high price, low percent gain but it equals a large sum. The trick is buying a stone that is clean, great color, excellent cut, and for reselling purposes, a desired shape. There is no guarantee that you will sell it and when, but its a much more secure bet this way. Also you need to pay a good price, which means not too high, but don't expect to spend $100 a carat and call it a good investment. when you do find that stone I suggest you post it here and see what everyone says.

This is all of course in reference to blue sapphire, fancy colored sapphire is a whole different story.

 

[psproot12]

If you go back 10+ years the consumer was not as aware as we are today and most dealers would just tell you assume heat. The reason is because most of the rough coming out of mines in Thailand and Madagascar for example, would basically heat the rough just as it was coming out. Some finer goods didn't necessarily need heat and would be put aside but the full on heated or unheated distinction was not cared for as much. Today the market is quite different and its almost as if there are two separate markets and two separate price lists for heated and unheated. The only thing that I can compare it to is the stock market. Look at heated stones as penny stocks, if you buy a fine stone like you would a fine penny stock, you would be able to sell and potentially profit from the stone. An unheated is like shares of google, high price, low percent gain but it equals a large sum. The trick is buying a stone that is clean, great color, excellent cut, and for reselling purposes, a desired shape. There is no guarantee that you will sell it and when, but its a much more secure bet this way. Also you need to pay a good price, which means not too high, but don't expect to spend $100 a carat and call it a good investment. when you do find that stone I suggest you post it here and see what everyone says.

This is all of course in reference to blue sapphire, fancy colored sapphire is a whole different story.

Speaking of, I'm thinking about picking up this stone:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-Certified-1-07-Ct-Natural-Greenish-Blue-Sapphire-Gemstone-Oval-Shape-/140973374775?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item20d2aafd37

Seems like a bargain to me, the only issue I'm having is this massive chip-like inclusion, a tiny bit of windowing, and the crap certificate, but at under $50/ct it doesn't seem like too much of a risk right? I don't actually intend on profiting from reselling it, I just wanted to know if it would have ANY resale value. I want it just as a piece. Anyways, do you happen to have any thoughts on the stone?

 

[chrono]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-Certified-1-07-Ct-Natural-Greenish-Blue-Sapphire-Gemstone-Oval-Shape-/140973374775?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item20d2aafd37

Seems like a bargain to me, the only issue I'm having is this massive chip-like inclusion, a tiny bit of windowing, and the crap certificate, but at under $50/ct it doesn't seem like too much of a risk right? I don't actually intend on profiting from reselling it, I just wanted to know if it would have ANY resale value. I want it just as a piece. Anyways, do you happen to have any thoughts on the stone?

Buy it ONLY if you love it. You are going to have a very difficult time trying to sell it. It shows colour zoning, obvious inclusion right on the table, and it will look blackish under most lighting conditions. It isn't going to sell for anything over $20.

 

[psproot12]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-Certified-1-07-Ct-Natural-Greenish-Blue-Sapphire-Gemstone-Oval-Shape-/140973374775?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item20d2aafd37

Seems like a bargain to me, the only issue I'm having is this massive chip-like inclusion, a tiny bit of windowing, and the crap certificate, but at under $50/ct it doesn't seem like too much of a risk right? I don't actually intend on profiting from reselling it, I just wanted to know if it would have ANY resale value. I want it just as a piece. Anyways, do you happen to have any thoughts on the stone?

Buy it ONLY if you love it. You are going to have a very difficult time trying to sell it. It shows colour zoning, obvious inclusion right on the table, and it will look blackish under most lighting conditions. It isn't going to sell for anything over $20.

No, as I mentioned I have no intention of any resale value. I was just curious as to the possible resale values I could expect. When I initially saw this I glimpsed at it for maybe 10 seconds and got very excited (I am extremely impulsive). Looking at the listing again I actually watched the video and came to realize it was not a "color change" sapphire but rather a color zoned sapphire Thanks to PS and Chrono or I may have ended up buying that junk!