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Consultation for a diamond

fatfat116

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
36
Hello everyone. I posted a thread for advice in here before. And people in here told me maybe I can choose a diamond in G color with bigger cart. I am very appreciated and now I chose one although I think it is a little bit over my budget. Here it is :


I have questions. I looked many diamond online. And some of them can see the H&A very clearly. And some of them only have white H&A even if they are 3EX.

1) Could I see the black H&A (really H&A) with my naked eye or magnified of the diamond I chose? Cuz I can't see the H&A on the video but can see on the image.
2) Are the inclusions on my diamond are transparent or white?
3) Is the diamond BGM?
4) Is the comments on the cert (i.e. pinpoint are not shown, clouds are not shown) important?
5) Is it worth of the price? Could I get one in around 1.2 cart with the similar budget without downgrading? Maybe I think it is not reality.

Thank you very much.
 
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tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,968
1) Could I see the black H&A (really H&A) with my naked eye or magnified of the diamond I chose? Cuz I can't see the H&A on the video but can see on the image.
H&A is seen from the back of the stone not from the front. Your stone has an H&A image where you can see the hearts from the back
of the stone. To determine if a stone is H&A you need an H&A image of the stone. You can not "see" it with your eyes just by looking
at a video.

2) Are the inclusions on my diamond are transparent or white?
I* think the inclusion would not be visible but you need to ask Whiteflash.
3) Is the diamond BGM?
No, or it would have never made it as a Whiteflash stone.
4) Is the comments on the cert (i.e. pinpoint are not shown, clouds are not shown) important?
Yes, important as far as a comprehensive evaluation. Will the clouds/pinpoints affect what you see? Not likely at a VS2.
Ask Whiteflash for assurance.

5) Is it worth of the price? Could I get one in around 1.2 cart with the similar budget without downgrading? Maybe I think it is not reality.
You might be able to find a 1.2 in the same budget but you most likely will be downgrading on cut.
 

fatfat116

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
36
H&A is seen from the back of the stone not from the front. Your stone has an H&A image where you can see the hearts from the back
of the stone. To determine if a stone is H&A you need an H&A image of the stone. You can not "see" it with your eyes just by looking
at a video.


I* think the inclusion would not be visible but you need to ask Whiteflash.

No, or it would have never made it as a Whiteflash stone.

Yes, important as far as a comprehensive evaluation. Will the clouds/pinpoints affect what you see? Not likely at a VS2.
Ask Whiteflash for assurance.


You might be able to find a 1.2 in the same budget but you most likely will be downgrading on cut.

Thank you for your Patience. So it’s a nice diamond within the budget.

Besides, I looked at diamonds on blue nile. And some of them can see the arrows and some of them can’t. Even though they are 3EX. Here is am example.
Can I understand that if I can see the arrows on the front. Then the diamond has a better fire, etc.?
 

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tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,968
Just because you can see arrows does not mean it is an H&A. No, you can not correlate seeing black arrows on the front with more fire.
3EX has nothing to do with a stone being H&A. You can have 3EX with H&A or 3EX without H&A.

Do you know about the HCA tool?

Enter the info on a stone here and it will give you some details about the stone.


Yes, the Whiteflash stone is a nice stone.
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
2,425
you will probably not see those black arrows in real life. Those are artifacts of photography with a still stone in specific lighting conditions taken with a black camera to shows the contrast.

So, unless you have a similar setup (or hold your hand still in a lighted chamber with a black camera), you will not see the “black arrows” in real life viewing. You will, however, see the scintillation, brilliance and fire as the diamond in a ring is moving around.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,899
Sparkle or scintillation is the result of the diamond being facetted correctly to have the “light“ enter the diamond from the top, bounce around on the facets and exit back out the top which is what you see.
the rainbow colours you see are a result of the light source being “bent” to produce a rainbow. That’s around 40 degrees. That’s the whole purpose of facets, to create the 40 degree or so angle.
Having lots of facets (angle creating surfaces) means lots of sparkles. And that also why one facet can be “on” ie in position to reflect light or “off” not at the correct angle. So a well cut diamond with lots of facets has lots of opportunity for facets to be “on” and they change as you move the diamond.
a photo is just static image. Some facets will have to be off ie dark. Move it slightly, some of those dark ones will start reflecting, other will then turn dark.
When a diamond is cut poorly, the light doesn’t come back out the top so you can see it. It exits off at a different angle. You don’t have maximum amount of facets working correctly so the sparkle is less.
 

fatfat116

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
36
Just because you can see arrows does not mean it is an H&A. No, you can not correlate seeing black arrows on the front with more fire.
3EX has nothing to do with a stone being H&A. You can have 3EX with H&A or 3EX without H&A.

Do you know about the HCA tool?

Enter the info on a stone here and it will give you some details about the stone.


Yes, the Whiteflash stone is a nice stone.


you will probably not see those black arrows in real life. Those are artifacts of photography with a still stone in specific lighting conditions taken with a black camera to shows the contrast.

So, unless you have a similar setup (or hold your hand still in a lighted chamber with a black camera), you will not see the “black arrows” in real life viewing. You will, however, see the scintillation, brilliance and fire as the diamond in a ring is moving around.


WF is a much better option vs the ones from BN (based on pics alone)


Sparkle or scintillation is the result of the diamond being facetted correctly to have the “light“ enter the diamond from the top, bounce around on the facets and exit back out the top which is what you see.
the rainbow colours you see are a result of the light source being “bent” to produce a rainbow. That’s around 40 degrees. That’s the whole purpose of facets, to create the 40 degree or so angle.
Having lots of facets (angle creating surfaces) means lots of sparkles. And that also why one facet can be “on” ie in position to reflect light or “off” not at the correct angle. So a well cut diamond with lots of facets has lots of opportunity for facets to be “on” and they change as you move the diamond.
a photo is just static image. Some facets will have to be off ie dark. Move it slightly, some of those dark ones will start reflecting, other will then turn dark.
When a diamond is cut poorly, the light doesn’t come back out the top so you can see it. It exits off at a different angle. You don’t have maximum amount of facets working correctly so the sparkle is less.

Thank you all of you. Before, I used to choose the diamond that can see whole the arrows on the front cuz I think the data of the diamond should be better (i.e. the angle, then the sparkle). But seems I got it wrong? So I can choose the diamonds without seeing the arrows on the images, even if the 360 videos, that still can be perfect? Because when I browsed jamesllem.com, I can see the arrows on their H&A diamonds. Thank you.
 

fatfat116

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
36
H&A is seen from the back of the stone not from the front. Your stone has an H&A image where you can see the hearts from the back
of the stone. To determine if a stone is H&A you need an H&A image of the stone. You can not "see" it with your eyes just by looking
at a video.

I* think the inclusion would not be visible but you need to ask Whiteflash.

No, or it would have never made it as a Whiteflash stone.

Yes, important as far as a comprehensive evaluation. Will the clouds/pinpoints affect what you see? Not likely at a VS2.
Ask Whiteflash for assurance.

You might be able to find a 1.2 in the same budget but you most likely will be downgrading on cut.

After I consult with thr whiteflash. They told me the information below with an image.

The inclusions within this diamond are a combination of lighter and darker crystals, but very small and you’d need 10x magnification in order to see those. B1699BA9-76D5-46C6-B388-A5527D141AFE.jpeg

And I do see some pinpoints and clouds on the images. Is it a big matter of the black crystal? I found 1cart, G ,3EX, VS1-SI1 diamonds for a week but no one better than this. I am stilling finding. Thank you very much.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,703
After I consult with thr whiteflash. They told me the information below with an image.

The inclusions within this diamond are a combination of lighter and darker crystals, but very small and you’d need 10x magnification in order to see those. B1699BA9-76D5-46C6-B388-A5527D141AFE.jpeg

And I do see some pinpoints and clouds on the images. Is it a big matter of the black crystal? I found 1cart, G ,3EX, VS1-SI1 diamonds for a week but no one better than this. I am stilling finding. Thank you very much.

I would not worry about that at all. It is small and not visible to the naked eye.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,968
That inclusion is so small you would never be able to see it. It will not affect the light return. The diamond is really blown up (enlarged)
in the pictures. It is a nice stone...it is an H&A (you can see from the H&A image). It has the highest crown that usually falls in the ideal
range which in theory should produce more fire. You can see the fire from the Sparkle video. It's a beautiful stone in my opinion.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,501
H & A stands for Hearts and Arrows. You can only see arrows from viewing the crown of a diamond. You can only view the Hearts only through the pavilion. You don't need a H&A viewer to see Arrows. These are the same arrows you can see with an Ideal-Scope or ASET Scope and even just in normal lighting as shown by the pictures in the thread so long as the light and obstruction is set up for displaying Arrows.

A standard round brilliant cut diamond with a GIA3EX grade will display Arrows. The hearts may not be totally perfected but who will ever see them once the diamond is set? If it matters to you, then don't cut corners, but perfected hearts are not going to mean a whole lot once the diamond is being worn. It is up to the marketing strategy of each vendor to promote Hearts and Arrows or to use other cut quality features to describe the diamonds they offer for sale. Many diamonds with no mention of H&A will have good to excellent hearts images simply by virtue of being well cut. Maybe that's why Ideal-Scope and ASET Scope only use the crown view. They don't require Hearts.

When a GIA Lab Report mentions Clouds not shown or Pinpoints not shown, it can have meaning or virtually no meaning. You need to see the diamond to understand the extent of the inclusions and if they have a negative effect on transparency. Occasionally, they do create issues. Most times, they are not a big deal. You can't know if they are not plotted and the vendor can't describe them.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,644
You can reasonably assess milkiness with the rotating video. Compare WF diamonds with different clarity grades and characteristics and look at the sharpness of fire and light return. Blacks should appear black. Get familar with their lighting setup.
Then compare yours with a VVS diamond (without clouds, twinning wisps, graining and pin points) with the same color and weight.
 

fatfat116

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
36
I would not worry about that at all. It is small and not visible to the naked eye.


That inclusion is so small you would never be able to see it. It will not affect the light return. The diamond is really blown up (enlarged)
in the pictures. It is a nice stone...it is an H&A (you can see from the H&A image). It has the highest crown that usually falls in the ideal
range which in theory should produce more fire. You can see the fire from the Sparkle video. It's a beautiful stone in my opinion.


H & A stands for Hearts and Arrows. You can only see arrows from viewing the crown of a diamond. You can only view the Hearts only through the pavilion. You don't need a H&A viewer to see Arrows. These are the same arrows you can see with an Ideal-Scope or ASET Scope and even just in normal lighting as shown by the pictures in the thread so long as the light and obstruction is set up for displaying Arrows.

A standard round brilliant cut diamond with a GIA3EX grade will display Arrows. The hearts may not be totally perfected but who will ever see them once the diamond is set? If it matters to you, then don't cut corners, but perfected hearts are not going to mean a whole lot once the diamond is being worn. It is up to the marketing strategy of each vendor to promote Hearts and Arrows or to use other cut quality features to describe the diamonds they offer for sale. Many diamonds with no mention of H&A will have good to excellent hearts images simply by virtue of being well cut. Maybe that's why Ideal-Scope and ASET Scope only use the crown view. They don't require Hearts.

When a GIA Lab Report mentions Clouds not shown or Pinpoints not shown, it can have meaning or virtually no meaning. You need to see the diamond to understand the extent of the inclusions and if they have a negative effect on transparency. Occasionally, they do create issues. Most times, they are not a big deal. You can't know if they are not plotted and the vendor can't describe them.


You can reasonably assess milkiness with the rotating video. Compare WF diamonds with different clarity grades and characteristics and look at the sharpness of fire and light return. Blacks should appear black. Get familar with their lighting setup.
Then compare yours with a VVS diamond (without clouds, twinning wisps, graining and pin points) with the same color and weight.

Thank you all of you that help me a lot. How about the ring? should I place the ring in a special method to cover the inclusion? Thank you very much.
 

MsShnooks

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
168
I really really really doubt you’d ever see that inclusion with the naked eye. The whole diamond measures only a few MN across and that little spec in only a fraction of a mm.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,968
Thank you all of you that help me a lot. How about the ring? should I place the ring in a special method to cover the inclusion? Thank you very much.

I think the inclusion is so small that it is not necessary. Are you talking about covering it with a prong? You can ask but I think its so small
it wont really matter. Are you doing a 4 or 6 prong setting?
 

fatfat116

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
36
I really really really doubt you’d ever see that inclusion with the naked eye. The whole diamond measures only a few MN across and that little spec in only a fraction of a mm.


I think the inclusion is so small that it is not necessary. Are you talking about covering it with a prong? You can ask but I think its so small
it wont really matter. Are you doing a 4 or 6 prong setting?

I prefer 4 prons cuz it won’t cover the diamond too much?
 

Mlh

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
579
It looks like you purchased the 1.06 G. Says sold on the page. Congratulations...please show us photos when you get it!
 

fatfat116

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
36
It looks like you purchased the 1.06 G. Says sold on the page. Congratulations...please show us photos when you get it!

Thank you. I will. I am looking at the ring and I found one I love it. 57A20E04-0B8E-4765-AFAF-6A48A3D1860D.jpeg

I would like to have this ring upside down and change to 4 prongs at the uo, down, left and right if it’s okay
 
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