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Considering a warm colored diamond...K or L

CarFul

Rough_Rock
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I am considering purchasing a warm colored diamond. I have seen several K's in big box stores and the color does not bother me at all (in fact, one that had a strong fluorescent I could not even see the color.) I am shopping on JA, looking for an excellent cut, trying to get the most bang for my buck. (Max budget is $13,000).

I have never seen an L in person - thought I have stalked almost every picture here. My question is - how much of a difference will I see between a K and a L? When looking online, how do I tell if the diamond has a yellow hue or a brown hue? How, oh how, do I pick out the "best" warm color diamond?
 

missy

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What kind of diamonds are you considering? Modern cuts, old cuts? Round or another shape? And what is the cert? GIA or AGS or something else? All important factors to consider.

The best way to judge color is see it in person and see it in many different lighting and environment situations. Only then can you begin to know your color tolerance as we are all different that way. Some find G too yellow and some love M. It all depends on your personal preferences and tolerances.
 

princessk

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1F2FB70F-BF03-4CFC-B5CC-B3B73258F100.jpeg Here s my AGS L with strong blue fluorescence No regrets about going bigger but with a warmer colour- Honestly faces up very white I found it hard to imagine what stone would look like buying from JA I went to a wholesaler and was shocked at how some warmer colours look in reaL LIFE
 

WinkHPD

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RE:
When looking online, how do I tell if the diamond has a yellow hue or a brown hue?

Easy, since it is not shown on the grading reports, you just ask. None of our trusted retailers here will ever lie to you about the correct answer, lest they cease to be trusted.

Wink
 

kenny

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2 things:

1. Fluor comes in many hues so make sure you only consider diamonds with blue fluor.
Fluor of warm colors like yellow, orange, brown, or red will make the diamond look more warm, not less.

2. Since Fluor is only activated by UV light it doesn't help indoors because typical interior light has little or no UV content.
Sunlight is one of the few light sources that can make a diamond look less warm.
Even then any actual blue you see will likely be reflections of the blue sky.
 
Last edited:

Rockdiamond

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Hi Carful,
K-L-M lover here!
In terms of the difference between K and L:
As you go down the GIA color scale, the grades widen. IOW, L is a wider grade than K.
So if we compare a "low" L with a "high" K, we can see a few shades of difference.
However this point is moot if someone does not mind the tint- or actually even prefers it.

As my old friend Wink pointed out, any good seller should be able to identify any sort of tint in the stone. In general brown tinted K-L colors are far less common than those yellow tinged ones.

Fluorescence- this is indeed a wild card.
In rare cases, it dulls the entire stone.
In some cases, a Medium or Strong Blue stone will not show effects indoors- but there are indeed cases of MB or SB stones that show visible color improvement indoors compared to inert ( non fl) stones of the same color.

It's hard to ignore how much more diamond you can buy in an L compared to a G on a given budget.
 

CarFul

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I asked JA about a diamond I was considering. This one:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...l-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4287519

They said they could not tell me as that could only see the same pictures as what I see and not the actual diamond. I also asked why some diamonds were darker in the pictures while others were not and they said it could have been the lighting or setting. So this lead me to wonder how I could actually trust the images they are showing.




Easy, since it is not shown on the grading reports, you just ask. None of our trusted retailers here will ever lie to you about the correct answer, lest they cease to be trusted.

Wink[/QUOTE]


What kind of diamonds are you considering? Modern cuts, old cuts? Round or another shape? And what is the cert? GIA or AGS or something else? All important factors to consider.

The best way to judge color is see it in person and see it in many different lighting and environment situations. Only then can you begin to know your color tolerance as we are all different that way. Some find G too yellow and some love M. It all depends on your personal preferences and tolerances.

What kind of diamonds are you considering? Modern cuts, old cuts? Round or another shape? And what is the cert? GIA or AGS or something else? All important factors to consider.

The best way to judge color is see it in person and see it in many different lighting and environment situations. Only then can you begin to know your color tolerance as we are all different that way. Some find G too yellow and some love M. It all depends on your personal preferences and tolerances.
 

kenny

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They said they could not tell me as that could only see the same pictures as what I see and not the actual diamond. I also asked why some diamonds were darker in the pictures while others were not and they said it could have been the lighting or setting. So this lead me to wonder how I could actually trust the images they are showing.

I don't trust photography.
Trust grading reports from reputable labs like GIA and AGS for color and clarity grading.
Trust tools like the HCA and a properly-taken Idealscope and ASET pic for evaluation of cut that results in good or bad light performance.

I'm a photographer.
There are a zillion things that can change how things look in a pic.
Even if the photographer and vendor are honest and pursue "accurate and true" pics, they have no control over the the device or computer YOU are using, which can change how gems appear too.
 

diamondseeker2006

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You can tell whether a stone has yellow or brown undertone in the James Allen videos. Therefore, it's a good place to look for lower color stones. I'll post some examples for you in a few minutes. But that does not substitute for seeing a stone in your own environment, because photos are incredibly poor at showing diamond color.

Just be aware that unless you work in a big box store or another location with overhead halogen lighting, your diamond won't look the same other places as it did in the big box store. You will see the tint and it won't sparkle quite like it does under halogen. The diamond may look a little like champagne color especially at the L level. You definitely need to order one to look at in your home, car, etc. to see what your real color tolerance is, as Missy said above.
 

CarFul

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You can tell whether a stone has yellow or brown undertone in the James Allen videos. Therefore, it's a good place to look for lower color stones. I'll post some examples for you in a few minutes. But that does not substitute for seeing a stone in your own environment, because photos are incredibly poor at showing diamond color.

Just be aware that unless you work in a big box store or another location with overhead halogen lighting, your diamond won't look the same other places as it did in the big box store. You will see the tint and it won't sparkle quite like it does under halogen. The diamond may look a little like champagne color especially at the L level. You definitely need to order one to look at in your home, car, etc. to see what your real color tolerance is, as Missy said above.


Thank you for the info. I really like the idea of purchasing online due to the savings. I am just confused as to how to select the right diamond when purchasing online. I've been only looking at GIA diamonds and then putting them in the HCA calculator. What else should I do to evaluate the diamond?
 

diamondseeker2006

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I am using L-M color diamonds to show you undertone because it is just easier to find the examples. There are many colors in between these, but this gives you an idea of what you're looking at. I strongly recommend yellow undertone for K-L just because they'll generally be brighter stones than those with brown.

Here's a nice yellow undertone:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4243213

Another yellow that looks a little more champagne:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4592436

This has brown and yellow, and I dislike it the most of all:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...l-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1128851

This is a lovely brown undertone but you really need a very low color for this to work. I find higher color diamonds with brown undertone to look kind of dingy.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4577622
 

CarFul

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Oh WOW. I do see the difference. Thank you so much.

This is the diamond I have tentatively identified. How do you think this one will look in person?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...l-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4287519



I am using L-M color diamonds to show you undertone because it is just easier to find the examples. There are many colors in between these, but this gives you an idea of what you're looking at. I strongly recommend yellow undertone for K-L just because they'll generally be brighter stones than those with brown.

Here's a nice yellow undertone:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4243213

Another yellow that looks a little more champagne:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4592436

This has brown and yellow, and I dislike it the most of all:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...l-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1128851

This is a lovely brown undertone but you really need a very low color for this to work. I find higher color diamonds with brown undertone to look kind of dingy.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4577622
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Use these measurements (easier than the HCA, for me, anyway)...

table 54-58

depth 60-62.3

crown angle 34-35 (up to 35.5 can work with a 40.6 pav angle)

Pavilion angle 40.6-40.9

The reason to go with ideal cut measurements is that when a stone has great light return, you see less color face up than you would with some poorly cut stones.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Oh WOW. I do see the difference. Thank you so much.

This is the diamond I have tentatively identified. How do you think this one will look in person?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...l-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4287519

You are very welcome!

I think that one has potential! It's a little outside of the measurements I gave you, but some people really like the 60/60 dimensions (table and depth). It results in a stone with a little larger diameter, which is nice. I'd choose your top three stones and then ask for ASET images so we can see if there is leakage or anything negative regarding the cut.

Are you going to set the stone in a yellow gold setting (perhaps with white metal prongs)? I think lower color modern diamonds are going to work better with rose or yellow gold on the shank (band) so that the diamond doesn't look quite as tinted as it would with all white metal.
 

rockysalamander

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You might want to reach out to HighPerformanceDiamonds. A number of PS members have obtained eye-clean SI2 from them and that might allow you to retain your size goal with a higher color and a super-ideal with a superior trade-in policy. That can be useful if you find the color bothers you over time or you just want to increase the color, size, clarity or more than one of those.

From JA, here are a few more.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...l-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2775808
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...k-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4424233

What about an antique stone?
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-70ct-old-european-transitional-cut-diamond-ags-n-vs2/
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-16ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-m-vs2
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-15ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-si1
 

CarFul

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Thank you again for all your help!
I previously thought about setting it in white gold as my wedding band is white gold, 1 carat total weight with 9 diamonds, but now I am not so sure. If I went with yellow gold for the shank would I need to get my band reset?




Use these measurements (easier than the HCA, for me, anyway)...

table 54-58

depth 60-62.3

crown angle 34-35 (up to 35.5 can work with a 40.6 pav angle)

Pavilion angle 40.6-40.9

The reason to go with ideal cut measurements is that when a stone has great light return, you see less color face up than you would with some poorly cut stones.
 

diamondseeker2006

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I really love lower colors in antique stones much more than modern. But I also agree with @rockysalamander that it is well worth going with a superideal cut like CBI from High Performance Diamonds for lower colors. Perfect cut will really help the overall look of the stone. Video is not up yet, but Wink will be glad to tell you about undertone. These diamonds can also be upgraded giving you full value later if you want to get a larger or higher color stone.

Example:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7908
 

CarFul

Rough_Rock
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I really like that K. It looks like a great option. I have never heard of an antique store. Can they be trusted?


You might want to reach out to HighPerformanceDiamonds. A number of PS members have obtained eye-clean SI2 from them and that might allow you to retain your size goal with a higher color and a super-ideal with a superior trade-in policy. That can be useful if you find the color bothers you over time or you just want to increase the color, size, clarity or more than one of those.

From JA, here are a few more.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...l-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2775808
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...k-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4424233

What about an antique stone?
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-70ct-old-european-transitional-cut-diamond-ags-n-vs2/
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-16ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-m-vs2
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-15ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-si1
 

CarFul

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That diamond from HPI is BEAUTIFUL! When I look at the picture I do not see any color at all. When I do a search on HPI, L color diamonds do not even come up. Would it be worth contacting them to see if they sell? Or contacting them to see if they can find an eye clean SI2?

I really love lower colors in antique stones much more than modern. But I also agree with @rockysalamander that it is well worth going with a superideal cut like CBI from High Performance Diamonds for lower colors. Perfect cut will really help the overall look of the stone. Video is not up yet, but Wink will be glad to tell you about undertone. These diamonds can also be upgraded giving you full value later if you want to get a larger or higher color stone.

Example:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7908
 

diamondseeker2006

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That diamond from HPI is BEAUTIFUL! When I look at the picture I do not see any color at all. When I do a search on HPI, L color diamonds do not even come up. Would it be worth contacting them to see if they sell? Or contacting them to see if they can find an eye clean SI2?

Yes, it is beautiful! What is listed on High Performance Diamonds is what is available at this time. They have had a few diamonds in lower color than L, so they may again. Wink can tell you if any are being cut and expected soon, but other than that, you'd have to wait an indefinite time. Some may suggest having one custom cut, but I would find that rather risky because you probably wouldn't have a return option if you did that, and I think it would be wise to see the stone before committing to it. @cflutist has purchased around a Q color CBI stone, I believe, but she is setting it in a white diamond halo to provide contrast to the color. With K-L, I'd assume you want those to face up relatively ivory in color. You could absolutely buy that K stone I linked and watch the inventory for larger K-L's in the future and trade in your K (or even a higher color if you wanted). That's what I'd personally do unless he expects one or more in soon.
 

cflutist

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Actually, the way CBI Cut to Order works, is that they guarantee a certain carat weight, color, and clarity. If it comes in with a better weight, color, and/or clarity, you win and there is no addition to the price. If it comes in lower, they adjust the price, or you can have them cut you another one.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonds/diamonds-crafted-order
 

diamondseeker2006

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I really like that K. It looks like a great option. I have never heard of an antique store. Can they be trusted?

I just missed something you said above @CarFul. I said I liked lower colors in antique stones (diamonds). The diamond in my avatar picture is a newly cut Old European cut diamond (August Vintage Round or OEC) which is cut to have great light return, so it is kind of like a CBI but in an old style cut. The supply of these is small, and I checked and there aren't any in the size and color range you are looking for. @rockysalamander posted some actual antique diamonds from Love Affair Diamonds and Jewels by Grace, and many people have bought from them. People here can also help you with suggestions if you should ever have interest in old style cuts or actual antique stones.

Just for educational purposes and to further show you more about color, here are the larger August Vintage OECs in stock. You can see that there are 4 M color stones on this page, and look how different the colors are! One is quite white, two are more champagne, and one is brown with yellow.

https://www.augustvintageinc.com/collections/august-vintage-european-cut?page=5

While I am on that site, here are some August Vintage Cushion diamonds that are well cut diamonds based on an antique cushion diamond. You can see the variety of colors in these stones, as well.

https://www.augustvintageinc.com/collections/august-vintage-cushion?page=6

But what I will tell you is that it is very helpful to see low color diamonds in order to know if you love the stone or not. All of these well cut stones are going to be gorgeous in the videos and in good lighting. But you must see them in all lighting environments to determine your preferences. I will tell you that I own an O color AVR, and I have ordered stones to look at in G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O and Y-Z colors!!! Some I liked and some I did not! But great cut is important in any color.
 

rodentman

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My EightStar is a J and it faces up quite nicely. I have no issue with the color whatsoever.
 
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