Colored Diamonds

[dwross928]

I have been seeing a lot of colored or irradiated diamonds showing up lately. Can anyone who can speak from authority tell me why someone would take a diamond and then irradiate it. also what is the deal with black diamonds...they just look like a piece of coal. Also champagne colored diamonds which are coming out of Australian mines are they just inferior diamonds or are they good diamonds just a different color.

Thanks really appreciate it.

 

[valeria101]

On 12/24/2003 8:38:20 PM dwross928 wrote:


[...] why someone would take a diamond and then irradiate it. also what is the deal with black diamonds...they just look like a piece of coal. Also champagne colored diamonds which are coming out of Australian mines are they just inferior diamonds or are they good diamonds just a different color.


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All three questions really are about color: iradiation is applied to change colors with little commercial value into... you have seen what. Those shades, I hope, will never be meant to mimic anything real. Hope this answers the question "why irradiate them", I have no idea why these are bought though.


Quite a few would agree that black diamonds are not really worth the trouble cutting them. For quite a while, leading manufactureres would shun them There has always been room for black gems in jewelry design: perhaps onix is the most popular, but things like jet have had their day too. During the past couple of years (if not less) black diamonds made serious inroads into high-end designer jewelry in combination with white and champagne colors (the last Dior and Channel collections for ex.). However all this is about mele blacks: large stones are not as often seen, despite the fact that even among the largest famous diamond, there are at least two blacks I can think of. Why the hype? Well, to start with, these do not look like a lump of coal at all: the lustre of diamond is all there, only black! Large stones are rare. Pieces with even texture which alow a good polish are even harder to come by. Sometimes black diamonds are iradiated (and/or heated?) to improve their cut-ability. If you like black gems (some do), then, of course, black diamonds are very attractive indeed. mrketing got black diamond back in the game, althrough there are other black gems capable to compete with their lustre and hardness: black spinel comes close, but there is NO market for it yet; black sapphire--yeah, but is rarely cut when true black, and the same goes as for spinel.




Champagne? This is still a color issue. These brownish tones occur in all rough, but in Australia they prevail. Brown diamonds come in all clarity grades and are diamonds in every other way... (not "inferior"). White diamonds sometimes have brown rather than yellow undertones. Light champagne colors sell at prices simmilar to lower whites (J-K) and are quite attractive for whoever likes the idea of "cape colors" (such as myself). However, how many brown gems fetch top prices? Brown sapphires almost never get even cut and sold (and there is plenty of them). Brown is simply not a traditional 'gem' color, and this is why champagne diamonds are priced so low. A 10ct C6 champagne cushion cut, was a site to behold (sold in Madrid under my bewildered eyes). Also, the deep shades of these already hamper brilliance (too much light absorbtion to start with) so the appearence of champagne diamonds does not correspond to the "diamond immage" much. I have yet to see any attempt to cut champagne diamonds for light return though... Color is the only curse of brown diamonds: even an overtone of a more acceptabe shade (such as pink, as detailed on the preciousmetals.com site), orange ot yellow rises their prices alot.




Hope this answers your Q a bit...

 

[strmrdr]

This is just my opinion and im going to take some heat but oh well...
Mostly its about applying fancy names to diamonds that in the past would have been smashed up for industrial diamond cutting use and finding suckers to buy em.

 

[valeria101]

here comes some heat...

I would call it "rescuing some beautiful gems from crushing (does this apply to champagne?)" when fashion did them least justice.

Oh well, I defintely subscribe to this "sucker" category. If diamonds are also used fro oil drilling, does this make them ugly!? Oh well, I don't mind that some "industrial rough" gets sold for higher prices: what jewelry buyer would go to buy industrial rough bulk to find a brown diamond if he/she so whishes? No that someone has done the search (and charged accordingly), there is more choice. Why not...

 

[strmrdr]

maybe sucker is too strong a word but its honestly how I feel about it.
To each their own, everyone has different taste in cars, planes trains and diamonds.
champagne is a fancy name for brownish correct?
Then yes they have mostly been used for industrial use and I think that is where they should be or at best priced accordingly.

val,
I know you disagree and that’s kewl if I don’t want them that means more for you right? :}

 

[valeria101]

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On 12/25/2003 2:08:42 AM strmrdr wrote:



val,
I know you disagree and that’s kewl if I don’t want them that means more for you right? :}


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Sure! And cheaper too

 

[The Joker]

"Mostly its about applying fancy names to diamonds that in the past would have been smashed up for industrial diamond cutting use and finding suckers to buy em."

strmdr--- I used to think you were smarter than that.

You need to check out the Smithsonian in NYC and also DC. The Fancy Colored Diamonds that are on display in both places might make you change your mind about Brown diamonds. The "DeYoung Red Diamond" is a Brown diamond that I am glad no one smashed up for industrial usage.

Joker....

 

[strmrdr]

Joker,
It has nothing to with being smart or not so smart.
Diamonds at their best are a "fools" market in some ways.

note: im not calling anyone a fool im just making a point.

Diamonds are 99% marketing and 1% about looks.
Consumers never get a fair shake in the deal.

Take the resale market in relation to other precious materials.
Lets take Gold the real thing not the sorta Gold used in jewelry.
I buy 1oz of Gold at spot + commission I can turn around 35 days from now and sell it for spot - commission.
The markup over spot is usually at most a couple percent so the spot price doesn't have to rise much to make my money back.
Silver works the same way.

Lets compare this to diamonds:
I buy a 400 diamond.
35 days from now I decide to sell it how much is it worth?
Well if the jeweler has a buy back program at most I would get 75% of that, if they don't I would be lucky to get 50% on ebay or 15% in a pawn shop.
Why?
I cant charge for the marketing on a used diamond the marketing charge has already been paid by me and used to keep the used diamond prices down.

Now you take diamonds that at best are a foolish investment for a consumer and add that to a marketing driven fad driving the price of non-traditional diamonds up and the return on investment picture gets even bleaker when the fad passes.

Honestly Iv seen way to many fads come and go some funny some sad to buy into them.
Im the type that I wore the same winter coat that I had in high school up until a couple years ago and im in my 30s.
I ignored the faddy (is that a word?) coats of the time and bought a high quality coat designed to be worn for a long time by working men.
It lasted me 14-15 years and cost less than the trendy coats of the day that were trash in less than a year.
You may consider that not being smart but I consider it getting value for my money that I work hard for.

 

[valeria101]

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On 12/27/2003 1:07:37 PM Furthermore wrote:



As for blacks - boart. Black diamonds are definitely NOT rare nor valuable - some are even ground up for industrial abrasives, which tells you how rare and expensive they are. There`s always a mug somewhere who`ll buy one, though. ))))))) I do keep hearing that there are two types of black diamonds , one of which is worth more than the other - can anyone shed light on that ???----------------

"MUG"! Thanks, Furthermore!

Regardless, I am still undeterred in my sympathy for black diamonds, as long as their price reflects the price of the industrial-type rough plus cutting...

Well, since I did do a bit of shopping for a nicely cut black "BOART" (some wild goose chase, btw) I've been told a few things about these. I am not sure this is what you mean by "type of blacks", but here it goes.
Of course there are the dark gray diamonds: these are transparent or very translucent at least for the deepest grays, get the same clarity grades as the whites and go for prices similar to the light yellows, as far as I have seen. However, I was shown deep gray shades as "black". As for the true, opaque back it seems that a rather small percentage of that cheap rough is cutable and would take a decent polish (without a lot of chipping). The best are monocrystals with evenly distributed coloring (black) inclusions as opposed to polycrystalline boart "bullets". The Russian black rough is reputed to be more stable (for cutting) than the African due to the different nature of its inclusions: the African rough carries carbon inclusions and the Russian is laced with hematite and other dark iron derivates.

Also, it seems that only some types are improved by heat and/or irradiation (again the Russian type gets lucky) and this may make a difference, I expect. The "cooking" seems to be an Indian staple - and thus the rather nice looks of the cheap black cuts coming from there. No way to get a decent size tough...

This is about all I know.

 

[valeria101]

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On 12/28/2003 3:54:59 PM Furthermore wrote:



[...]I think you`d shudder to see what DeBeers Industrials throw in the crusher. [...] The few that DO get cut ...... sorry, I`m under penance not to use the word 'mug' today....... ))))----------------

Some would shudder

, some would "sabotage" the operation to rescue the stuff

This, coming from someone who also admires beach pebbles set in 18k. Well, as you have said yourself Furthermore, it does not matter how great the rough is, but whether it sells for a profit, right ? Oh, well, I am probably too embittered here. Sorry folks!

 

[The Joker]

Furthermore:
Yes, Brown diamonds and Yellow diamonds occur just about equally in nature, and Yellow diamonds are more popular then Brown. The old "supply and demand" takes over, and Fancy Yellow diamonds end up costing more than Fancy Brown Diamonds. (Now, I hope that we are both talking gem quality stones, not the frozen spit that we have seen advertised on E-bay once-in-a-while).

I also hope that you're not saying that a diamond as unique as the "Golden Jubilee" should have been ground up into material for diamond coated drill bits.

If anyone reading this, wants to sent "The Joker" all those ugly Brown diamonds; he will smash them up and personally drop them off at the diamond tool supply shop in Elyria, Ohio. You can even include the included Black diamonds. I don't mind, I won't even charge for the use of my trailer.

Joker....

 

[dmpineapple]

The browns are becoming quite popular...I personally don't see the attraction.

 

[dmpineapple]

On black diamonds... Most black diamonds today are man made. They are replicated under high pressure in million dollar machines, called "presses". They are primarily for industrial use, such as drilling for oil. Until 1954, no one person could pull off the diamond making trick. 20 chemists at General Electric were invited to join the fascinating challenge of making diamonds, but only one scientist accepted the offer, My dad, H. Tracy Hall. He had dabbled with the diamond-making problem at the University of Utah where he studied the effects of strong electric fields on carbon crystallization. He jumped at the chance to participate in the expanded GE venture. Project "superpressure" was carried out in secrecy. Only a few people were supposed to know the purpose of the giant press and the intense pace of the high-pressure researchers at GE. On December 16, 1954, he performed an expiriment with a 400 ton hydraulic press that conducted an estimated 100,000 atmospheres at 1600 degrees celcius for thirty eight minutes, and here's what he described in his journal that day; "I broke open a sample cell after removing it from the belt. It cleaved near the tantalum disk. Instantly, my hands began to tremble. My heart beat wildly. My knees weakened and no longer gave support. Indescribable emotion overcame me and I had to find a place to sit down! My eyes had caught the flashing light from dozens of triangular faces of octahedral crystals that were stuck to the tantalum and I knew that diamonds had finally been made by man". Visit Novadiamond.com for more information about my dad, and these diamonds. Black diamonds ARE cool!

 

[dmpineapple]

Black diamonds look like onyx when they're polished. They're nothing great to look at that's for sure.

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/30/2004 4:50:33 PM dmpineapple wrote:


[...] one scientist accepted the offer, My dad, H. Tracy Hall. He had dabbled with the diamond-making problem at the University of Utah where he studied the effects of strong electric fields on carbon crystallization. Visit Novadiamond.com for more information about my dad, and these diamonds. ----------------

Not sure this is great Q, but I'm still curious... Is there any good source discussing the types of diamond crystals obtained in artificial conditions? I have been asked wether Lonsdaleite has been obtained during diamon making, and have yet to find any comment on this, non-gemologist as I am. Any 0.2 greately appreciated !

 

[mogok]

Well AnA, for what I know: Most of the synthetic diamonds (except for the vapor deposition CVD diamnds that are type IIa)are type Ib: It means that the nitrogen atoms are at complete random in the structure. These type Ib diamonds are really rare in nature as around 98% of all natural diamonds are type Ia (whith its subcathegories: IaA, IaB, IaAB )
The fact is that for instance is very difficult to grow synthetic diamonds using HPHT process without nitrogen.

Now when you HPHT a synthethic Ib diamond it seems that this diamond can become type Ia, In this case the color of the diamond usualy goes down in the same way as when you HPHT a type IIa diamond... This is the inverse of what happen for HPHT in type Ia and IIb where the color increase and then fancy color diamonds can be created.

Ha yes one more thing: an other kind of synthetic diamonds that are not Ib it is the blue synthetic diamond created by HPHT that are in fact hybrids of Ib and IIb (as they dont have found yet the way to grow synthetic diamonds with only Boron and no nitrogen)