color 'improvement' by fluorescence

[scepture]

longtime lurker, infrequent poster

My FF's friend just got engaged and I had a chance to look at her ring and may have fallen for the fluorescence bug. I have seen a decent amount of very strong/strong fluorescence rings in the SMTB forum, but this one looked quite different. The ring was an 1.25 'I' vg cut rb (I know without the exact specs that doesn't mean much, but it looked good IRL). In any case, I had never really considered fluorescence because from the pictures I saw, I didn't care for the rather noticeable blue tint that the stronger fluorescence created in the diamond color. The ring I was looking at was a 'medium' fluorescence, but had no noticeable 'blue tint' at all, and made the diamond appear as if it was more of an 'E' than an 'I' that it was.

So the question, and some may roll their eyes, but does the fluorescence always create a 'blue' hue in the diamond? Or is it possible that with a slight/medium fluorescence it can be a 'cheaper' way of upgrading the color without having to pay the price for such.

I tried looking for GOG videos but only found one on an AVR with strong fluorescence (in which the diamond didn't appear to have any noticeable fluorescence to me at all, so either the video wasn't a good representation or my eye is severely amateur). Is there any resource (picture comparison, video) that anyone knows of that shows the difference - side by side preferably - of the progression of fluorescence? I tried looking through several (hundred probably) threads but couldn't seem to find anything.

TIA!

 

[Lorelei]

longtime lurker, infrequent poster

My FF's friend just got engaged and I had a chance to look at her ring and may have fallen for the fluorescence bug. I have seen a decent amount of very strong/strong fluorescence rings in the SMTB forum, but this one looked quite different. The ring was an 1.25 'I' vg cut rb (I know without the exact specs that doesn't mean much, but it looked good IRL). In any case, I had never really considered fluorescence because from the pictures I saw, I didn't care for the rather noticeable blue tint that the stronger fluorescence created in the diamond color. The ring I was looking at was a 'medium' fluorescence, but had no noticeable 'blue tint' at all, and made the diamond appear as if it was more of an 'E' than an 'I' that it was.

So the question, and some may roll their eyes, but does the fluorescence always create a 'blue' hue in the diamond? Or is it possible that with a slight/medium fluorescence it can be a 'cheaper' way of upgrading the color without having to pay the price for such.

I tried looking for GOG videos but only found one on an AVR with strong fluorescence (in which the diamond didn't appear to have any noticeable fluorescence to me at all, so either the video wasn't a good representation or my eye is severely amateur). Is there any resource (picture comparison, video) that anyone knows of that shows the difference - side by side preferably - of the progression of fluorescence? I tried looking through several (hundred probably) threads but couldn't seem to find anything.

TIA!

Hi Scepture,

Here is an excellent tutorial on blue fluorescence which you should find helpful. It should answer your questions and it has photos for comparison.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

As the tutorial explains, medium and above blue fluorescence can assist a diamond in facing up a little whiter than its actual colour grade in some lighting. I also find fluorescence can make a diamond look a little more 'plugged in' in some cases and I always get excited about stones which feature it. So it can be a consideration if you find a stone of G H I or J colour etc which has medium or strong blue as some believe it can have a beneficial effect.

As to any blue tones, this might be noticeable particularly with strong blue or very strong blue in sunlight or in nightclubs etc, I find this effect fascinating but it is a matter of taste.

One thing to watch, in rare cases strong or very strong blue fluorescence can make a diamond look cloudy in some lighting conditions such as bright sunlight, so if you find a diamond with this feature, ask a trusted vendor or appraiser to check the stone for any negative effects for you.

 

[Lula]

I own a 1 carat diamond, I color, ideal cut, with strong blue fluorescence. It is blue in direct sunlight, but it's hard to determine what part of the blue color is attributable to the fluoro and what is due to the stone reflecting the blue sky. That said, this video, https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/video-of-my-bgd-blue-rb-t154798.html just posted of a stone with SB fluoro in the sunlight, demonstrates very nicely what these stones can look like in the sunlight. They do indeed look "plugged in" as Lorelei describes! I think it's beautiful, but fluoro is a personal preference.

Just a note about the color enhancement property of fluoro: It is true that in some lighting conditions, the fluoro will have a whitening effect on the color of the stone, most noticeable under office lighting. However, an I color stone is not an E color stone for a reason, and you will find that in many other lighting conditions the stone looks like its grade -- I color, which is in the lower end of near colorless.

I have become more color sensitive over time (drat!) and I could see the ever-so-slight tint of the I color in some -- not many, but some --- lighting conditions. This may or may not bother you or your fiance, so my suggestion is you buy a stone with fluoro because you enjoy the beauty of this phenomenon not solely because of the whitening effects. Just my .02!

 

[scepture]

HA! I cannot believe, after spending probably 100 hours on this site, that I failed to notice the fluorescence PAGE! Sorry for the waste of time, thanks for the info though!

 

[yssie]

Blue fluoro is caused by complexes of three nitrogens (and one empty void) randomly substituting for four carbons in the diamond crystal lattice. The more the number of substitutions, the stronger the effects of fluorescence in that stone. Since the substitutions are random they'll be universally dispersed through the stone - not deliberately concentrated in any one part of the stone.

Visible fluoro itself is the result of long-wave UV rays exciting electrons, which then emit photons (visible blue wavelengths) as they de-excite back to ground state. The initial excitation requires long-wave UV - present in sunlight but not office light, for instance, so the effects of fluorescence will not be visible under office lights. The more the number of nitrogen complexes present, the more the number of these excitable electrons, the more the concentration of visible blue wavelengths in any given area of the stone as they return to the lower energy state - and since the nitrogen complexes are distributed throughout the stone the visible blue wavelengths are emitted uniformly from all parts of the stone.

Yellow-tinted diamonds are tinted because the diamond material is absorbing the blue wavelengths of incident white light, so when rays are refracted out of the stone un-dispersed they are missing those absorbed blue wavelengths. Fluorescence has the effect of "adding" some transient blue emissions, so that when you look at the body of the diamond you "see" these outputs combine to "white". A different coloured stone with blue fluor would obviously not look white in sunlight

 

[Lorelei]

HA! I cannot believe, after spending probably 100 hours on this site, that I failed to notice the fluorescence PAGE! Sorry for the waste of time, thanks for the info though!

You are NOT wasting my time or anyone else's! There is so much info here it can take a long time to find everything so no need to apologize!

 

[yssie]

not sure if you were looking for more info scepture but I found the article I was looking for a couple of days ago that goes into some detail:

Short_info_page
Article

Apparently as of mid-'09 GIA has started including an insert on fluoro with it's dossiers for all stones with med+, which I was interested to learn!

 

[denverappraiser]

Longtime lurker. Frequent poster.

Most 'normal' lighting has a negligible UV component. Incandescent, fluorescent, LED and halogen are all near zero with the bulbs you typically encounter in home, office and business lighting. Even clouded and shaded sunlight and sunlight filtered through typical window glass are quite low. Direct sunlight is the only environment that most people get into with significant UV unless you count the disco and the tanning salon.

Usually this issue applies to concern about 'overblues', where the strong fluorescence causes a milky appearance in UV rich lighting but it applies equally to where you're looking for the fluro to mask the body color of the stone. No UV in the light source means no UV reacton from the stone and there will be no 'improvement' as a result.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I'm a lover of fluorescent in pretty much all the colorless and near colorless colors-

In an I or J color it can be magic- however not in all cases.
In some stones the color change is very apparent- in even the slightest UV exposure- and other cases it's harder to notice.
I find that it's rare that people are in zero UV environments- especially during the day.
Sometimes even a small bit of sunlight can do the trick.

But it's really a stone by stone basis. Yssie has given a great scientific explanation- beyond my level of understanding.
I mean, I can understand what yssie wrote- but I use my experience rather than physics.
There are different types of fluorescence- which , to me- explains why some medium Blue stones have a significant color change effect, and others have minimal change.

 

[yssie]

Longtime lurker. Frequent poster.
unless you count the disco and the tanning salon.

a perilous discount, Mr. Beatty

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just acquired a pair of August Vintage OEC's and one is an I color and the other J with strong blue flourescence. Honestly, I can't tell the stones apart! The flouro must be a positive for the J color because I consider myself color sensitive! I have not seen a hint of the blue, however, so I don't think it is easy to see without a black light! I think flouro is a bonus because it is interesting, can have a positive effect on some colors, and it often makes the stone cost less! Sounds like win-win to me!

 

[shiny29]

Any ideas on why I cannot watch the video that lula posted? I click on the link and it says I am not authorized to view the forum.

 

[slg47]

shiny, that link doesn't work for me either.

 

[Lula]

Any ideas on why I cannot watch the video that lula posted? I click on the link and it says I am not authorized to view the forum.

Hmm, wonder if it's because the video was linked to a photo bucket or you tube account. The mods remove those. I think that diamond and setting came from BGD; check the BGD website, maybe, to see if it's there? http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/