College student riots in England.

[meresal]

Are we allowed to discuss this?

I have not researched it much, I just saw a tidbit on the Today show this morning. I feel horrible for those parents and kids that never expected to have to pay their children's or their own tuition at this rate.

IMO, reasons like this are why I don't mind paying for everything myself instead of relying on the gov for aide... if you plan to pay for it yourself, then you don't have to worry about surprises like this. (This is based on the fact that the information I received is that the government covers part of the tuition costs... I am double checking that info.)

Just a horrible unfortunate situation. I hope that this doesn't keep children from being able to receive a good education.

 

[Pandora II]

Are we allowed to discuss this?

I have not researched it much, I just saw a tidbit on the Today show this morning. I feel horrible for those parents and kids that never expected to have to pay their children's or their own tuition at this rate.

IMO, reasons like this are why I don't mind paying for everything myself instead of relying on the gov for aide... if you plan to pay for it yourself, then you don't have to worry about surprises like this. (This is based on the fact that the information I received is that the government covers part of the tuition costs... I am double checking that info.)

Just a horrible unfortunate situation. I hope that this doesn't keep children from being able to receive a good education.

The information you have is incorrect...

Basically they are putting annual university fees up to a maximum of £9k from £3k – you don’t pay upfront, the government loans you the money and once you start earning over £21k you start to pay it back at about £75 a month. After 25 years any outstanding debt is written off, if your income goes down you stop paying and the pay-back threshold rises every year in line with average earnings.

We have had this system for years, it is just going to cost a bit more than it has done - and maybe they will need to drink slightly less at University which would be no bad thing!

It won't cost students or their parents a penny upfront - the student pays back only when they are earning a salary that means they can easily afford the small monthly payment. It is a very fair system in my view. With nearly 40% of students going to university, the state can no longer afford to pay for all the costs - and why should someone on a very low income pay toward it rather than the cost being shared between the student and the state?

The riots are totally ridiculous and are mainly gangs of thugs looking for a fight rather than actual students - although some of them have got caught up in it. Half the ones interviewed don't even understand what they are protesting about.

 

[anchor31]

The same thing is happening in Quebec, Pandora. Tuition is barely 3000CAD a year and students are complaining, rioting, demonstrating... Give me a break. I worked hard and pinched my pennies, but had otherwise no trouble putting myself trough college and graduate debt-free. Evidently, the system cannot cover all the fees and our schools are rapidly deteriorating. The ones who are complaining are the ones who spend their loans on alcohol, clothes and cars, and it makes me furious. That kind of system doesn't teach students to be responsible and to work for what they earn.

 

[meresal]

Thanks for the clarification Pandora.

It seemed a bit too one sided to be what they were saying... Seems like a good system in a perfect world. However, given the economy, I can definitely understand why they are raising tuition, considering it is taking people much longer to get that earning level, in order to start paying back.

In my opinion, systems that give away money, even for a short period of time, are asking for people to take advantage, which given your responses, seems to be the case.
We have a system of student loans. However, no matter your job status, you are required to start paying as soon as you graduate. They also, only offer most of them to families that fall below a certian income level. A step that tries to ensure the funds will not be used as disposable income for alcohol and the like. If you spend it unwisely, you most likely don't have a classroom to attend or a bed to sleep on... as your family can't afford it either.

Maybe instead of making everyone pay more, they could just be a bit more selective in who they offer their funds to, and how much they give.

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks for the clarification Pandora.

It seemed a bit too one sided to be what they were saying... Seems like a good system in a perfect world. However, given the economy, I can definitely understand why they are raising tuition, considering it is taking people much longer to get that earning level, in order to start paying back.

In my opinion, systems that give away money, even for a short period of time, are asking for people to take advantage, which given your responses, seems to be the case.
We have a system of student loans. However, no matter your job status, you are required to start paying as soon as you graduate. They also, only offer most of them to families that fall below a certian income level. A step that tries to ensure the funds will not be used as disposable income for alcohol and the like. If you spend it unwisely, you most likely don't have a classroom to attend or a bed to sleep on... as your family can't afford it either.

Maybe instead of making everyone pay more, they could just be a bit more selective in who they offer their funds to, and how much they give.

The Universities are the ones that actually charge the fees, the government just offers students loans at low interest rates to pay the fees so they don't have to pay anything up front (you can if you want pay the whole lot in advance). The Universities have to charge the fees as the government has cut their funding except for sciences. So, it is actually nice that the state is offering to hand out the money rather than saying just apply for a loan from the bank etc. Also, only some courses will be £9k a year, many will still be £3k or £4k. £9k is the maximum allowable charge.

On top of tuition fees, you can also get government loans towards living expenses - although many students also have part-time jobs and/or parents will help out.

When I went to university there were no tuition fees and I was the last year where the government actually gave free maintenance grants if family income was under a certain amount - so if you came from a very poor family you didn't need to pay anything and the state subsidised your living expenses.

The thing was that in those days only around 15% of school leavers each year were going on to University and the population was lower and so this was affordable - now with a larger population and 40%+ of school leavers going to university it is just unaffordable especially in the current economic climate.

In some ways bringing in student tuition fees is a good thing - my first year I had 6 hours lectures a week, no tutorials and 1 essay a semester. I left the course as I felt I wasn't being taught, the tutors were only interested in their own research and since my lectures were all on Tuesday I had nothing else the rest of the week. If I had been paying £9k a year for that I would have been very unhappy. Now the lecturers have to do a lot more.

 

[Laughinggravy0]

I'm with you Pandora.

Interesting debate on the Today programme, recorded in the House of Lords. Patten asking could someone please explain why personal debt was so terrible and yet public debt was acceptable? And Paddy Ashdown arguing that if people accepted the idea of getting a mortgage for a property, then he couldn't see why people couldn't accept the concept of an intellectual mortgage for their education. And who'd have put them both on the same side of any debate? (Non Brits, these are two one time ministers in two different parties, who are now both in the House of Lords)

I did a degree from '84-'87 and then went back to a Masters at the same University 1999-2000 and good lord the difference! Post grads had to share a few course with the undergrads and they were pitiful. We'd be asked to prepare one chapter for the following week's class and when the lecturer checked to see if anyone had done the prep, only the three post grads could say yes. The 40 or so undergrads couldn't even be bothered to read a single chapter.

Actually that really p***** me off because I was paying and yes, that really did make a difference to my expectations and the demands I placed on myself and the lecturers - although I really felt for them since silk purses out of sows ears didn't come into it!

But I am interested to know if you are sure of your numbers, really? Because this is the data I'm missing and have wanted to know. Could you point me in the right direction for the info you put forward - I'd like to have the facts at my fingertips since I recently had an unpleasant conversation on this with a colleague who is now no longer speaking to me :
"Basically they are putting annual university fees up to a maximum of £9k from £3k – you don’t pay upfront, the government loans you the money and once you start earning over £21k you start to pay it back at about £75 a month. After 25 years any outstanding debt is written off, if your income goes down you stop paying and the pay-back threshold rises every year in line with average earnings."

Cheers

 

[Laughinggravy0]

Oh yes, and I'll grab the chance to say Good Lord but I love the ring on your avatar Pandora, been wanting to say that for an age

 

[Pandora II]

http://www.bis.gov.uk/news/topstories/2010/Dec/tuition-fees-student-finance

This gives most of the figures.

The repayment is 9% on income over £21k - if someone earns £25k a year then they will pay £30 a month; £30k - £67.50; £40k - £142.50. Your take home pay on £40k is £2,460 a month so £142.50 isn't that big an amount - plus I wouldn't be suprised if it isn't deducted before tax which makes it even less than that.

The interest rates can get steep but you are also paying back faster at higher levels.

Hope that helps! DH and I are very involved in politics - I worked for one of the main Party's until last year and was a Borough Councillor in London until May - so the arguments have been huge especially within our own Party. I always enjoy a good ding-dong with the Trots though...

Thanks for the comments on my ring - it's a tsavorite garnet and my e-ring. I'm still in love with the stone!

ETA: I love the Today programme - mornings are not the same without it - but managed to miss this mornings. I'm suprised at that from Paddy (but very pleased) as he's a bit of a lefty and I would have thought he was firmly in the no-fees camp. The LD's have made a complete tit of themselves over it all - promising x,y,z when you know you'll never be in power and most of your seats are in University towns is very easy. Being in opposition is a lot easier than being in power!

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

If you attend a state school in America, then your education is paid for partially by the state government, even if you do not have student loans or grants or scholarships. Our tuition bills do not represent the entire cost of our education.

 

[ChallyMixe]

In my way to school I saw some students having riots in the corner street, I was so afraid.