Chubb Insurance Question

[gsquare]

I''ve read through a lot of the old posts about Chubb insurance and there seems to be agreement that they do not require replacement with "like kind" but will just pay you for the insured amount. Doesn''t that leave them open to fraudulant claims? Everybody knows how appraisals are inflated. For example say I buy this ring on ebay 5055324958. It costs $33,000. They provide me with an appraisal for $215,000. It just happens to fall into my dog''s dinner kibbel and it''s gone!!! (Not that I would EVER do this - in fact I have a very sad story about my dog and a diamond). It''s hard to believe I could just call Chubb and say "My dog ate my diamond" and they would send me the money. A bit of exaggeration but you get my point. The like kind replacement is sort of a sword dangling over your head to keep you honest. In this example they could surely replace this diamond with an even better one for far less than $215,000. I don''t understand how they can stay in business with that policy. Is there something I am missing or did I find a way to fund my retirement?

 

[jrob529]

I don't work for an insurance company but I'm assuming for a diamond appraised at over 200k, they'd appraise it themselves to ensure the diamond is truely worth 200k. And 200k is really not worth committing a felony.

 

[gsquare]

Date: 11/6/2006 9:45:07 AM
Author: jrob529
I don''t work for an insurance company but I''m assuming for a diamond appraised at over 200k, they''d appraise it themselves to ensure the diamond is truely worth 200k. And 200k is really not worth committing a felony.

My example was a little extreme. I wonder what the amount is above which they would require their own appraisal? As for the felony part people kill each other for a pair of tennis shoes or the last meatball.

 

[jrob529]

Date: 11/6/2006 9:58:19 AM
Author: gsquare

Date: 11/6/2006 9:45:07 AM
Author: jrob529
I don''t work for an insurance company but I''m assuming for a diamond appraised at over 200k, they''d appraise it themselves to ensure the diamond is truely worth 200k. And 200k is really not worth committing a felony.

My example was a little extreme. I wonder what the amount is above which they would require their own appraisal? As for the felony part people kill each other for a pair of tennis shoes or the last meatball.

Whether it''s a meatball, a pair of tennis shoes, or a million dollar diamond, I''d prefer staying out of jail.

With that being said, I''ve often wondered how insurance companies determine if someone has actually "lost" their jewelry. It probably goes on all the time and that''s why rates are higher than they should.

 

[mtrb]

I couldnt resist... I have a story to tell.. My brother who in his ultimate wisdom decided to play quarters a couple years ago at college...(which is played by bouncing a quarter across the table into a cup of beer..if you get it in, you drink it) swallowed the quarter when he had to drink what was in the cup. Well, he called the doctor and the doctor was not concerned at all... "what goes in(that size) will come out eventually" he said. So, I wonder if an insurance company would have you follow your dog around for a couple weeks..lol or they would replace it without fuss.

What I do know however, if the diamond did re-immerge(eeww)..that it would be property of the insurance company and you would have to send it to them.

 

[richie5120]

wow, nice ring op! are you thinking of getting it? Ring I''ve been reading on here to avoid ebay, would hate to hear someone purchased that ring and it was bogus.

 

[gsquare]

Date: 11/6/2006 10:30:05 AM
Author: mtrb

I couldnt resist... I have a story to tell.. My brother who in his ultimate wisdom decided to play quarters a couple years ago at college...(which is played by bouncing a quarter across the table into a cup of beer..if you get it in, you drink it) swallowed the quarter when he had to drink what was in the cup. Well, he called the doctor and the doctor was not concerned at all... ''what goes in(that size) will come out eventually'' he said. So, I wonder if an insurance company would have you follow your dog around for a couple weeks..lol or they would replace it without fuss.

What I do know however, if the diamond did re-immerge(eeww)..that it would be property of the insurance company and you would have to send it to them.

That brings up the very sad story of my dog and the diamond. We had a Cairn Terrier who was about four years old and we decided to get a puppy Cairn as a buddy for her. When the new dog arrived it was apparent that she had not been well taken care of. We bathed her and intoduced her to her new older sister. At first our older dog was standoffish but she grew to really like her. They would sometimes sleep curled up like a ying and yang sign. Anyway one day my wife took off her stud earrings and set them on the living room end table. It was about two feet high. She walked away and when she came back the younger dog was on the carpet playing with one of the earrings. The other earring could not be found. We called the vet and she told us to give her 5cc of hydrogen peroxide so she would vomit it back up. She did vomit but nothing came up. The next morning we took her in and she was X rayed. The stud showed up in the film. The vet thought it best to perform surgery since the object was sharp and pointed. When they opened here up they were able to carefully push the stud through her digestive tract with and pop it out through, lets say, her natural orfice. We were happy that she did not have to cut into or nick her intestinal tract because of course that would just invite peritonitis. That evening she become lethargic and seemed in pain. We took her back in and the vet watched over her during the night and decided it was necessary to open her back up. She found her pancrease red and enormously swollen. Apparently she had been suffering from an undiagnosed pancreatic problem and the stress of surgery pushed her over the edge. Unfortunately she died soon afterwards. It was just a horrible thing to happen to this little dog who finally had it made. The really depressing thing was that is was Valentines day and her 1st birthday. That was almost 12 years ago and it still is very upsetting.

 

[mtrb]

That is sad. As a dog lover, I feel for you.

If that happened to my dog, I would be devastated...

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 11/6/2006 9:13:30 AM
Author:gsquare
I''ve read through a lot of the old posts about Chubb insurance and there seems to be agreement that they do not require replacement with ''like kind'' but will just pay you for the insured amount. Doesn''t that leave them open to fraudulant claims? Everybody knows how appraisals are inflated. For example say I buy this ring on ebay 5055324958. It costs $33,000. They provide me with an appraisal for $215,000. It just happens to fall into my dog''s dinner kibbel and it''s gone!!! (Not that I would EVER do this - in fact I have a very sad story about my dog and a diamond). It''s hard to believe I could just call Chubb and say ''My dog ate my diamond'' and they would send me the money. A bit of exaggeration but you get my point. The like kind replacement is sort of a sword dangling over your head to keep you honest. In this example they could surely replace this diamond with an even better one for far less than $215,000. I don''t understand how they can stay in business with that policy. Is there something I am missing or did I find a way to fund my retirement?

Chubb''s basic mindset is "if you are willing to pay the premiums, they will pay the claim". Of course that leave them open for those would ethics are in the item found in every bathroom.

Insurance companies generally think that a minor claim (under 10-20K) is a "nuisance claim", and they just pay except in extraodinary occurences. If the claim is larger, then they generally will take some precautions and investigate, before paying the claim. You can bet if they pay a 6 figure claim they will do a bit of investigation paticularly if the claim is suspicious.
I won''t go into what "lights the red light at the claims dept", but I can tell you that most insurance companies do have their own investigative units to help curb fraud. They also hire good experts. I''ve been hired for several insurance company fraud cases, and people are amazed at just how much info we can come with. They don''t realize just how much will be spent, and how "deep" the invesitigative process is, once a claim is signaled out as being suspicious.

It is also interesting how people who THINK they can get away with this stuff, are amazed with the evidence gathered for trial.

Chubb does require a full blown appraisal document for items over $ 50K.

Rockdoc

I

 

[gsquare]

Date: 11/6/2006 10:50:00 AM
Author: richie5120
wow, nice ring op! are you thinking of getting it? Ring I''ve been reading on here to avoid ebay, would hate to hear someone purchased that ring and it was bogus.

No I am not thinking of buying it. I was just looking for the most extreme case of cost vs. appraisal and I found it on ebay. And I''m not thinking of trying to commit fraud either. I was just trying to point out why I though it was odd that Chubb would just pay out any insured value without having anything to protect themselves from inflated appraisals. It seemed like in some of the old posts that people wanted to get Chubb insurance despite their higher rates because they didn''t want to pay to get a detailed appraisal. I wondered how far you could push that premise. In my opinion the best way to buy insurance is to spend a bit to get a very detailed appraisal and insure the diamond for a reasonable amount that would satisfy you if it was lost or destroyed. Once again I''ll plug Rich Sherwood in Sarasota for my very detailed appraisal and GOG for all their paperwork to provide backup for the value of my AGS diamond. I decided to get my insurance through my home insurer Allstate. When I asked about replacement my agent said that since the documents were so detailed that they would not be able to replace the diamond and they woud just give me a check for the insured amount. An added benefit for me is that by having another policy with Allstate they are less likely to cancel my homeowners insurance. That''s becoming a big problem in Florida with all the hurricanes.

 

[diamondfan]

When I got my upgraded stone, USAA would not insure it. Chubb did, and TIffany''s dealt with them directly regarding paperwork. I wanted to make sure, since my size of stone is not so common, that I would get FULL replacement value at the time of any incident, since diamond prices were going up. I am not sure if I am guaranteed getting back what I paid, and if it costs more to replace it with a like stone, I also get that in addition...but I was very specific with my policy because I did not want a nasty shock G*d forbid something happen to my ring...

 

[gsquare]

Date: 11/6/2006 11:25:54 AM
Author: mtrb

That is sad. As a dog lover, I feel for you.

If that happened to my dog, I would be devastated...

Thank you. We were upset for a long time especially my wife because it was her 1/2 carat earring that caused it. Neither dog showed any interest in her jewelry or things on the end tables until then. We did get another dog about 6 months later. He will be 11 next month. The older dog passed away about 6 years ago. The younger dog Niles became sort of neurotic being by himself so we got another dog for company. So now we have Niles 11 and Little Buddy 6 who are Norwich Terriers. They are lots of fun. By the way I enjoyed the pictures of your dog on the link. I noticed the link is gone. What happened? I''m also thinking of restarting another thread of my dog vs. diamond story so that it isn''t hidden in this insurance discussion of which probably many are bored. I''d like to warn others to be careful with their jewelery around small children and pets.

 

[diamondfan]

Kids and dogs do tend to eat things. That is sad, but your wife could not have known that would happen and the pup might have gotten sick without the procedure. Are Norwiches the dog from the Wizard of Oz? I love my dog so much I cannot imagine something like that happening to her...but it was certainly no ones fault...

 

[gsquare]

Date: 11/7/2006 2:32:15 AM
Author: diamondfan
Kids and dogs do tend to eat things. That is sad, but your wife could not have known that would happen and the pup might have gotten sick without the procedure. Are Norwiches the dog from the Wizard of Oz? I love my dog so much I cannot imagine something like that happening to her...but it was certainly no ones fault...

Cairns are the dog from The Wizard of OZ. The two female dogs in the story were Cairns. The oldest one (who did not eat the diamond) was a black Cairn who looked just like Toto!!! We often went for vacation to Key West for Christmas since KW is very dog freindly. The guys down there just loved her. It must have been the Judy Garland connection. The dogs we have now are Norwichs. If you''ve ever seen the movie Best in Show the dog Gene Levey has, Winky, that wins the show looks exactly like our Buddy.

 

[diamondfan]

I really love dogs...I tend to gravitate toward larger dogs, but I love Westies for some reason. Growing up we had a mix of dogs, my FAVORITE was our little Papillon Sugar. We had some pure breds and some mutts and I loved them all...terriers are frisky and fun dogs...Now I have a dog, my kids finally wore me down, and I love her to pieces...

 

[Upside Down Man]

Date: 11/7/2006 2:04:59 AM
Author: gsquare

No I am not thinking of buying it. I was just looking for the most extreme case of cost vs. appraisal and I found it on ebay. And I'm not thinking of trying to commit fraud either. I was just trying to point out why I though it was odd that Chubb would just pay out any insured value without having anything to protect themselves from inflated appraisals. It seemed like in some of the old posts that people wanted to get Chubb insurance despite their higher rates because they didn't want to pay to get a detailed appraisal.

Hi gsquare. It sounds like you are talking about my old thread: Anyone have experience with Allstate?

My issue in that thread was not that I would pay for Chubb despite the higher rate because I didn't want to pay to get a detailed appraisal. It was that a detailed appraisal would cost $150-$200 more, and an increase to Chubb would only cost $60 more per year. It was more cost efficient to simply upgrade to Chubb, nevermind that I'm also upgrading to a superior policy. Although if Chubb had been $200 more per year, of course I would have simply paid to get the detailed appraisal.

Date: 11/7/2006 2:04:59 AM
Author: gsquare

I decided to get my insurance through my home insurer Allstate. When I asked about replacement my agent said that since the documents were so detailed that they would not be able to replace the diamond and they woud just give me a check for the insured amount.

That's really nice, but as you can see from my old thread, I'm now very skeptical about what an Allstate agent tells me over the phone. And frankly, what they tell you over the phone doesn't mean anything at all - it's the language in your policy that defines the scope of your coverage. It's not your agent who will replace your stone, it's the claims adjuster. What if the claims adjuster takes a different view of the replaceability of your ring? Then if you don't agree with him, you have to fight with him for who knows how long about the value of your claim. Or worse, you have to call on the legal process for assistance. Maybe you'll get a check right away, maybe you'll get a check eventually, maybe you won't get a check at all - who knows?

With the Chubb policy I was able to wash my hands at that whole scenario. And since upgrading to Chubb was more cost-efficient than getting a more detailed appraisal, it seemed like a no-brainer. I mean, in my area, we were talking about an extra FIVE DOLLARS PER MONTH. Not to steal from an old insurance commercial, but if I just dump the spare change out of my pocket at the end of every day, and add that up at the end of the month, I get well over $5 anyway.

 

[RockDoc]

I am not doing this to promote Chubb.


Go to www.ripoffreport.com In the search bar type Chubb Insurance. Nothing comes up.


Then try the search using Allstate Insurance, and there are 4 pages of multiple complaints.


It''s a great site to check on companies that sell products and services.

Rockdoc

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Can I tell y''all something really funny?! I just called a nearby agent who sells Chubb to get a price quote. She asked me why I wasn''t just using a rider on my homeowners. I told her I really had an excellent stone and that I did not trust the ins. comany to replace my stone. I had spent months looking for it and I''d want the same vendor to replace it if anything ever happened to it, and the Chubb policy would allow me to do that. Anyway, she then asked me how I knew I had an excellent quality stone, and she went on to say she is looking for a 2 ct. emerald cut diamond for Christmas. Well, you may as well know that we didn''t talk about insurance much from that point on! I sent her links which will likely result in her getting a much finer quality stone at a better price than she''d find in our area, and I know because I looked for MONTHS!!! So I cannot WAIT to see if she ends up buying a stone from a PS vendor!!!

Anyway, if I get a price quote, I''ll report the difference in price for my area between a homeowner''s rider and the Chubb just FYI.

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 11/7/2006 10:15:00 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Can I tell y''all something really funny?! I just called a nearby agent who sells Chubb to get a price quote. She asked me why I wasn''t just using a rider on my homeowners. I told her I really had an excellent stone and that I did not trust the ins. comany to replace my stone. I had spent months looking for it and I''d want the same vendor to replace it if anything ever happened to it, and the Chubb policy would allow me to do that. Anyway, she then asked me how I knew I had an excellent quality stone, and she went on to say she is looking for a 2 ct. emerald cut diamond for Christmas. Well, you may as well know that we didn''t talk about insurance much from that point on! I sent her links which will likely result in her getting a much finer quality stone at a better price than she''d find in our area, and I know because I looked for MONTHS!!! So I cannot WAIT to see if she ends up buying a stone from a PS vendor!!!

Anyway, if I get a price quote, I''ll report the difference in price for my area between a homeowner''s rider and the Chubb just FYI.

How very cool! Good job sharing your knowledge. I bet you''re starting to feel comfortable with your large stone too!

I would be interested to know what the diff betwn Chubb and your homeowners is if you get a quote.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, just got it! Keep in mind that this is the southeast, so insurance varies depending on where you are.
My ring is currently valued at $18,000 which is about halfway in between the purchase price and the insurance valuation provided by the diamond vendor. The jeweler who set the stone wrote the valuation for $18,000. Anyway, my homeowners rate is about $180 per year, and the Chubb quote is $207. For me, the price is definitely worth it, because I'd really want the same vendor to replace my stone if anything ever happened to it. Plus, if I wanted to change to other specs, it would just make it SO much easier. So if I ever decide on a permanent setting, I plan to switch to Chubb. It sounds like it is definitely worth it!

(Stone Hunter..I love looking at my diamond, but I am still a little self-conscious about the size on occasion. But I am working on getting over that!)

 

[elle]

Silly question : If the appraisal is replacement cost and the sales receipt is actual cost - what''s the "valuation" by the jeweller based on?

I''m curious cos I had to either insure my ring based on the value of the sales receipt or the appraisal (which was like 60% more) with Chubb. There was no middle ground.

And I second the bad rap for Allstate. Have learnt the hard way to get everything on paper from the insurance agent and to read every single clause - even if it''s 8 pages of legalese that will give you a migraine after. Our Allstate agent promised and assured us we were covered for jewellery esp. after we told him I had a collection and he specifically said they did not need a list even when I offered. Then when we had a break in - it turned out that our "coverage" was for a max of $500 after a $2500 deductible. Our fault for being negligent and naive but he wasn''t very nice - told us to get out of his office and that there was nothing else he could do for us when we went to see him about it the day after. Reporting him to Allstate did nothing at all - they offered a paltry 2k settlement on a 40K loss but that would mean our premiums would go up so we didn''t take it. Hard lesson learned.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just have a replacement valuation by two different people, so I went with the one I wanted!

They all have their own formula, apparently of what the retail value is. I didn''t have the desire to drastically overinsure (which I think a 60% increase is!), so I was lucky to have the extra ins. "appraisal" to use! Of course, when I change over to Chubb, and if I reset my stone, I may have to go back to the original vendor to get the valuation updated, and this would take me back to the choice of purchase price versus very inflated. And since I have been fortunate in the past with no losses, I may just choose to insure for the purchase price and eat the inflation costs myself if I ever did have a loss. Not sure yet.

 

[Upside Down Man]

Date: 11/7/2006 11:52:39 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I just have a replacement valuation by two different people, so I went with the one I wanted!

They all have their own formula, apparently of what the retail value is. I didn't have the desire to drastically overinsure (which I think a 60% increase is!), so I was lucky to have the extra ins. 'appraisal' to use! Of course, when I change over to Chubb, and if I reset my stone, I may have to go back to the original vendor to get the valuation updated, and this would take me back to the choice of purchase price versus very inflated. And since I have been fortunate in the past with no losses, I may just choose to insure for the purchase price and eat the inflation costs myself if I ever did have a loss. Not sure yet.

Ready for this? Chubb has a built-in protection device to guard against inflation. If you choose to replace your ring (rather than cash out), Chubb will allow you to replace it with like kind or quality for up to 150% of the insurance value (unless you live in New York State). That will be plenty to guard against inflation. So you actually don't have to eat any costs.

http://www.chubb.com/personal/masterpiece_adv_vac.jsp

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 11/7/2006 11:57:16 AM
Author: Upside Down Man

Date: 11/7/2006 11:52:39 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I just have a replacement valuation by two different people, so I went with the one I wanted!

They all have their own formula, apparently of what the retail value is. I didn''t have the desire to drastically overinsure (which I think a 60% increase is!), so I was lucky to have the extra ins. ''appraisal'' to use! Of course, when I change over to Chubb, and if I reset my stone, I may have to go back to the original vendor to get the valuation updated, and this would take me back to the choice of purchase price versus very inflated. And since I have been fortunate in the past with no losses, I may just choose to insure for the purchase price and eat the inflation costs myself if I ever did have a loss. Not sure yet.

Ready for this? Chubb has a built-in protection device to guard against inflation. If you choose to replace your ring (rather than cash out), Chubb will allow you to replace it with like kind or quality for up to 150% of the insurance value (unless you live in New York State). That will be plenty to guard against inflation. So you actually don''t have to eat any costs.

http://www.chubb.com/personal/masterpiece_adv_vac.jsp

Oh, I totally forgot about that! I guess it makes sense to just insure for actual cost then. I just emailed her back to ask the minimum value that can be insured because I want to see if I could put my future diamond studs on it, too.

 

[San Francisco]

It doesn''t make sense to me to buy expensive jewelry and then insure it with the insurance guy offering you the cheapest quote.

I had a personal articles policy with State Farm as a supplement to my home owner’s policy. It covered both my wife''s jewelry ($90k) and our fine art pieces ($40k) for something like $700 year. RockDoc convinced me that I would be better off insuring with Chubb and referred me to a Chubb agent.

Chubb indeed offered superior coverage for the jewelry but had an "earthquake exclusion" on the fine art, something not very attractive for someone living in San Francisco. Interestingly, State Farm has no such exclusion on their fine art coverage.

So the solution was that I kept the personal articles coverage on the fine art with State Farm but moved all the jewelry coverage to Chubb. Chubb gave me a quote of $1.80 per thousand or $1,600 to cover the jewelry. More than double State Farm''s premium, which might help explain how Chubb can offer the premium coverage they do for your premium pieces of jewelry.

San Francisco

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Actaully, it must depend on where you live. Because my two quotes on an $18,000 ring were $180 for homeowners and $207 for Chubb. So it was only maybe 15% higher...nowhere near double, but I don''t live in a major city either.

 

[San Francisco]

It is late in the day. I had a math error in the post I just submitted in this thread.

The Chubb rate in the previous post is $1.80 per $100 covered, thus my $90,000 jewelry coverage cost me $1,600 per year.

San Francisco

 

[San Francisco]

Date: 11/7/2006 6:23:10 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Actaully, it must depend on where you live. Because my two quotes on an $18,000 ring were $180 for homeowners and $207 for Chubb. So it was only maybe 15% higher...nowhere near double, but I don''t live in a major city either.

I have a number of jewelry articles being insured and thus the likelihood of losing one of them is greater than the likelihood of losing a single item that you may have insured. I believe the per $100 cost to insure a single ring is much lower than insuring a number of jewelry items totaling the same amoun of coverage.
San Francisco

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That could be. I''ll find out if I decide to move other items over to the Chubb policy.

By the way, did you ever find new diamond studs for your wife? That''s my current project!

 

[San Francisco]

Date: 11/7/2006 6:38:18 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
That could be. I''ll find out if I decide to move other items over to the Chubb policy.

By the way, did you ever find new diamond studs for your wife? That''s my current project!

The other key fact that affects insurance quotes is deductibles. My Chubb has a zero deductible.

No, I have not found the stud earrings I want yet. This is my first post in the forum in many months and I have not had any time to look for them. But they have moved up my priority list. I want 1.25 each, F, VSII, matching AGS ideal cuts.

San Francisco