Christmas proposal dreams over

[chocolatefudge]

Hi Ladies,

We it looks like my dreams of a proposal this Christmas are oficially over! We went out Christmas shopping yesterday, a day which started off really nicely but then I had to go and open my big mouth....
Can''t even remember how it started but I mentioned something about being sad that a proposal wouldn''t be coming by end of year (because of new house.) I asked why he hadn''t done it earlier in the year and he said, "I just aren''t bothered about getting married. I''m a man, I''m not going to be excited about a wedding am I?"
Earlier in the year he said the saem thing about ''not being bothered'' and I got really upset. He later said he''d just had a bad day at work and didn''t mean it.
Anyway yesterday when he said it, it made me cry, I couldn'' help it. The tears just came out by themselves! He got annoyed with me and said he''s always told me that he''s not really bothered. I was like, "What???" He''s never said that!!

Anyway, later on we sort of sorted things. He said he did want to and would soon and I just had to accept it becasue when I kept asking questions he got really annoyed again.

Anyway I think you can safely say that he probably isn''t really bothered and who knows if a proposal will ever come now. Why does getting married turn my lovely boyfriend into someone I don''t recognise?!?

And if he isn''t bothered about marriage does that mean he doesn''t love me enough??

I feel really down about it

 

[*Danielle*]

Some men just are not as worried about these things. Have you guys talked about marriage before? It doesn''t seem like he is on the same page as you right now.

Sorry sweetie!

 

[gwendolyn]

I''m sorry you feel disappointed again about this engagement stuff, chocolatefudge.

Is it possible that he''s not as ok with marriage as he (sometimes) says he is? Could he really be telling you he doesn''t want to get married when he says he ''isn''t bothered,'' but then takes it back when he sees how it upsets you, even though he really doesn''t feel ok about getting engaged? I am not necessarily saying he doesn''t want to marry YOU, but maybe he is against marriage, or at least against it for the foreseeable future?

I think, in your position, I might worry that the ''not bothered about marriage'' comments are what he really thinks, and I''d want to sit down at some point (probably when the holidays were well over) and have a real heart-to-heart where I''d ask to hear the brutal honesty about his thoughts of marriage, and not what he thinks I want to hear. I think there''s something significant behind the fact that he becomes someone you say you have difficulty recognizing when the topic of marriage arises, and (in my opinion) talking things through and knowing for sure is always better than speculating, even if the answers aren''t what you (''you'' in general, not you specifically) want to hear.

Now, I could be WAY off base, but from what you''ve said, that''s what comes to mind about what to do. The two of you have been together a very long time, and clearly you know a million times more about your situation than I do, so I hope my post does not offend you in any way.

Again, I''m so sorry you''re feeling this way honey. I hope you and your boyfriend can get on the same page soon.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/8/2008 1:02:08 PM
Author: gwendolyn
I''m sorry you feel disappointed again about this engagement stuff, chocolatefudge.

Is it possible that he''s not as ok with marriage as he (sometimes) says he is? Could he really be telling you he doesn''t want to get married when he says he ''isn''t bothered,'' but then takes it back when he sees how it upsets you, even though he really doesn''t feel ok about getting engaged? I am not necessarily saying he doesn''t want to marry YOU, but maybe he is against marriage, or at least against it for the foreseeable future?


I think, in your position, I might worry that the ''not bothered about marriage'' comments are what he really thinks, and I''d want to sit down at some point (probably when the holidays were well over) and have a real heart-to-heart where I''d ask to hear the brutal honesty about his thoughts of marriage, and not what he thinks I want to hear. I think there''s something significant behind the fact that he becomes someone you say you have difficulty recognizing when the topic of marriage arises, and (in my opinion) talking things through and knowing for sure is always better than speculating, even if the answers aren''t what you (''you'' in general, not you specifically) want to hear.


Now, I could be WAY off base, but from what you''ve said, that''s what comes to mind about what to do. The two of you have been together a very long time, and clearly you know a million times more about your situation than I do, so I hope my post does not offend you in any way.


Again, I''m so sorry you''re feeling this way honey. I hope you and your boyfriend can get on the same page soon.

I agree with Gwen. Honey, you need to sit YOURSELF down and think about how you feel about things before you can talk to him rationally about what is important to you. And if getting married is important to you and not him, maybe it''s time to move on...

 

[Bia]

Oh man sweetie...Im really sorry.

I don''t know your boyfriend, so I can''t tell you for sure, but it sounds like he is feeling a lot of pressure to propose and he might not be ready just yet. That''s why he''s getting defensive maybe? When my boyfriend gets defensive with me, its usually because he''s highly annoyed.

I really hope your proposal is coming soon, however, understand that if he''s not ready, no matter what you do, you can''t make him be so. He has to want it on his own--you wouldn''t want him to propose any other way would you? I hope that''s not sounding insensitive...I really do feel for all the LIW who are uncertain because I myself don''t know when my engagement is coming and its really hard sometimes.

Good luck sweets. We''re here for you, remember that

 

[CNYHopeful]

chocolatefudge,
I''m so sorry to hear this. We''re here for you.

Sometimes guys just don''t get it until they get it. Somehow their brains can suddenly develop overnight and they get the marriage bug, but until they get it, they can just be so difficult. Some guys are just so afraid of failing at marriage, that they think it''s easier or more comfortable to not get involved. If he''s anything like my BF, buying a house is his way of showing that he loves you and is committed to your future. Unfortunately, until he settles into that and can pat himself on the back, he is afraid of taking that next step.

Perhaps what he needs right now is for you to love him and be patient with him. Don''t be afraid to ask him why he is afraid of marriage and if he is just afraid of failing. Don''t hesitate to find out if he has any friends or a male role model who has succeeded in marriage. Some men don''t have those figures in their lives and so it makes it that much more difficult and overwhelming for them to imagine. But someday, he will hopefully soon!

 

[Lauren8211]

Sorry you''re hurting, CF. I know this can be such a stressful situation when you''re not on the same page.

Honestly, it just sounds like he''s not quite ready. Not that he''ll never be ready, just not right now. I know I get defensive when people bring up things that I''m not ready for.

You know him better than any of us, but like others have said, if bringing this up brings out a side of him you don''t like, maybe it''s not the right time for him.

You need to get real answers from him about how he feels about marriage, and when he potentially sees you two getting married, if at all. That''s the only way that you can make an educated decision.

Good luck, sweetie.

(((Hugs!)))

 

[chocolatefudge]

Thanks Ladies, all you replies have been spot on! Although I wish sooooo much that he was ready, I know that I will have to wait and stop my constant questioning. The longer it goes the harder it seems to get but Ive waited for a long time so i will continue to be (slightly more) patient.
Thanks again, everything is in perspective now! I wish it didn''t upset me so much as I know there are people out there with much bigger problems than not being proposed to!
I will continue to hang around on the board and take a more comfortable seat as it looks like I may be around for a while!

 

[sunnyd]

I don''t know about stopping the questioning. I mean does he ever want to sit down and have a serious conversation about marriage? Not a wedding, not a ring, but marriage. If he can''t even do that without getting annoyed then I would really question what''s going on here. Sorry darlin...

 

[Bia]

Date: 12/8/2008 3:13:34 PM
Author: sunnyd
I don't know about stopping the questioning. I mean does he ever want to sit down and have a serious conversation about marriage? Not a wedding, not a ring, but marriage. If he can't even do that without getting annoyed then I would really question what's going on here. Sorry darlin...

I have to agree here with sunnyd. I understand you don't want to rock the boat, esp if things are great in other areas of your relationship. However, keep in mind that this is your relationship too. If marriage is something you know you want in the near future, and he can't even discuss it with you without getting irritated, then something has to give. Everyone deserves to do things at their own pace, but when you've been with someone for a long time, communication should be the one thing you both do really well. If he can't communicate his feelings about marriage, truthfully and without being vague, then I would suggest you make him understand how that makes you feel. You can't wait forever (unless you, specifically, are willing to) so take comfort in knowing that most women wouldn't either.

I think discussing certain things after the holidays might be a good idea, but definitely don't put it off too long.
**Just out of curiosity, how long have you been together?

 

[chocolatefudge]

We will have been together for 8 years in April.

I will try and give him a couple more months time and then see where he''s up to. I keep hoping that by not bringing it up he might just propose, but it''s not happened so far. Every few months I seem to have a flare up where it all gets to me and I ask him when it''ll happen and then we argue for a few days until I back off again.

I really don''t want to push him into anything, I just wish that he wanted to do it!!

 

[Miscka]

Hi CF! Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I hope you don''t take this the wrong way, but I thought I would ask if you had ever re-read your old posts? I did this, esp around the time I was breaking up with my ex, and it made me realize how truly unhappy the situation had made me. I was going to post the topics you have started, but I don''t want to come across snarky. I am genuinely concerned for you. I know that sometimes we tend to talk here more if we need help/support, but please evaluate all that you have been through. Did he not tell you it would happen in 2008?

I am not explaining myself well here, I just hope you come to a happier place, wherever that may be

 

[sammyj]

hey chocolatefudge, I''m so sorry you''re feeling this way but I have to agree with everyone that you and your BF are NOT on the same page at all ;and after 8 years of being together you really need to step back and think about what YOU want. If marriage is something that is really important to you then you need to find out if your BF can meet YOUR needs. Add up all of the months where you have let things simmer and quieted down with the questioning....is it a lot? Are you willing to continue doing that for many more months? Like gwen said, I don''t think it''s a question of how much he loves you and wants to be with you, it may just be the concept of marriage in general. Good luck!

 

[trillionaire]

CF, I agree with the others who suggest that a conversation is in order. I would probably wait until the new year if he had suggested that a 2008 proposal was in the works, but certainly between now and your 8th anni, you definitely need to have a talk. My SO doesn''t like the engagement ring tradition, and complained feircely about how much money was expected, that it was one-sided, etc. The first few times he said this, I told him that I really loved that he was questioning the status quo and challenging norms and assumptions, and that I loved that about him, that he wasn''t a follower. That is true. (I also knew without a doubt that he would propose with a ring that would meet my need for that tradition

) However, over time, he continued with this complaint and tirade, and I did have to make it VERY clear that HE didn''t get excited about rings and engagements, but many, MANY men do. They come to this board, and twitter with excitement, showing off their rings and designs, planning perfect proposals, doing elaborate, thoughtful loving things for the women that they love. Men DO get excited about rings, about engagements, and yes, about weddings, too. Several of my gfs that didn''t want weddings were convince to have them by men who had always dreamed of their wedding days. I guess I am just saying that cloaking his lack of enthusiasm in "I''m a guy" is a cop out. He needs a better reason than that, and you deserve a better reason. He also should know and understand that it is difficult and painful for you to hear such things from him, and how it makes you feel. I told SO that I respect his right to feel annoyed with the cultural expectation of an e-ring, but I would prefer that he would save his animosity for his guys friends, and his excitement for me, if he could muster any.

And he has.

 

[mynewobsession]

Hi CF, I agree with the above posters that a good, long heart to heart with your BF is in order. Do you think there may be an underlying reason why he's putting the idea of marriage out of his head for the time being? It may be that he's just not ready; it may be something else entirely. For me, I was going crazy after 7 years of dating because although my BF expressed interest in marriage, he still would roll his eyes and get defensive when I brought up the prospect of getting engaged. It took me several months and many serious conversations later but he finally confessed that he was worried to start the huge endeavor of planning a wedding because he's still hoping to go back to school. He convinced himself that if we were to get engaged now, it would take over our lives and he'd never get the chance to finish his degree. Once I was clear on his concerns, we worked out a plan and compromised on a timeline that would work for both of us.

I know this is specific to my situation, but maybe there's something lurking in the back of his mind that's keeping him from proposing. Is he worried about finances? Is he in the process of trying to accomplish something at work?

In the end though, men are just different when it comes to wedding stuff. Like my BF put it a few weeks ago, "I'm a guy. This stuff just doesn't excite me like it does you. We don't fantasize about weddings since childhood."

ETA: That being said - I do agree with Trillionaire because now that we're on our way and have purchased my ring (although I don't have it yet) he IS getting excited and wants to be involved in EVERYTHING! Men can be silly sometimes...

Hang in there, girl!

 

[Dreamgirl]

Date: 12/8/2008 1:07:51 PM
Author: Bia
Oh man sweetie...Im really sorry.

I don't know your boyfriend, so I can't tell you for sure, but it sounds like he is feeling a lot of pressure to propose and he might not be ready just yet. That's why he's getting defensive maybe? When my boyfriend gets defensive with me, its usually because he's highly annoyed.

I really hope your proposal is coming soon, however, understand that if he's not ready, no matter what you do, you can't make him be so. He has to want it on his own--you wouldn't want him to propose any other way would you? I hope that's not sounding insensitive...I really do feel for all the LIW who are uncertain because I myself don't know when my engagement is coming and its really hard sometimes.

Good luck sweets. We're here for you, remember that

Ditto! And I am so guilty of bringing these things up to him and annoying him at no end. Then I end up in tears wondering if he really loves me or not. He does love me, he just isn't there yet. I'm not even there JUST yet but I at least like to talk about it and plan for the future...and sometimes, he just doesn't want to hear it!!! This is a great place to vent about these types of things. I have on a few occasions...

Much love to you! Keep your head up.

 

[mrscushion]

Date: 12/8/2008 3:30:12 PM
Author: Bia

Date: 12/8/2008 3:13:34 PM

Author: sunnyd

I don''t know about stopping the questioning. I mean does he ever want to sit down and have a serious conversation about marriage? Not a wedding, not a ring, but marriage. If he can''t even do that without getting annoyed then I would really question what''s going on here. Sorry darlin...

I have to agree here with sunnyd. I understand you don''t want to rock the boat, esp if things are great in other areas of your relationship. However, keep in mind that this is your relationship too. If marriage is something you know you want in the near future, and he can''t even discuss it with you without getting irritated, then something has to give. Everyone deserves to do things at their own pace, but when you''ve been with someone for a long time, communication should be the one thing you both do really well. If he can''t communicate his feelings about marriage, truthfully and without being vague, then I would suggest you make him understand how that makes you feel. You can''t wait forever (unless you, specifically, are willing to) so take comfort in knowing that most women wouldn''t either.

Hey chocolatefudge. I''m new here, but your post really struck a chord with me and I thought I''d say how sorry I am to hear how you''re feeling. It''s really, really hard to want to get engaged sooo badly and your SO is just not quite there yet. I really feel for you. My BF and I will have dated 8 years, too, come this February!!! So I definitely knows how it feels! I have been wanting to get engaged for a long time and I have gotten upset several times in the past, which in turn made him feel pressured and defensive. Then over the course of this past summer we sat down and had several very in-depth conversations about marriage itself and how we would envision our married life together. Somehow those talks took the conversation away from "the engagement" and "the ring" and "the date" to our relationship. And I don''t know what happened, but that reassured him and got him feeling much more positively about getting engaged. So judging from my own experience, which I realize may or may not apply to you, I agree with sunnyd and Bia that you shouldn''t stop talking. Talking is really important... maybe it''s not necessarily about a proposal, but about saying really honestly what both of your expectations are for the relationship. Anyway. That''s just my $0.02. I really am sorry about your disappointment. Take care of yourself!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I don't know you or your boyfriend so I am only going on what you posted....but, to me, it sounds like he's enjoying his free milk (so to speak) and has no interest in becoming the owner of a cow (again, so to speak).

As he's said, he cannot be bothered to marry you...and that's your answer...Of course you can continue to fret over him, and marriage, and a ring, or you can begin the healing the process of understanding your boyfriend may never want to marry you, or anyone for that matter. Marriage is not a "for sure" for anyone...marriage is just right for some people, and completely wrong for others. But, when you try to mesh someone who wants to be married with someone who doesn't, it's a mess.

 

[katica]

Aww I''m sorry to hear that honey. I don''t know your boyfriend but is it possible he''s just not ready to marry ANYONE? Although, I have to say that after 8 years, I understand your concern. How old are the two of you if u don''t mind me asking? How does he treat you in general? Does he talk about being with you long term, without marriage? I hope it works out for for you. At the same time, if marriage is important to you, you should not let this go. After 8 years he owes it to you to be honest with you. And you have to be strong, because if you''re not going to be happy being his girlfriend for much longer you might have to make some tough decisions.

 

[Winks_Elf]

I could not agree more with Sammyj! I''m sorry, but after EIGHT years??? The whole getting upset because you are pushing thing is such a lame man''s excuse (been there, done that). I don''t know how old you are, but the only thing worse than being kept on a string for eight years is being kept on a string for eight years and one day.

I would suggest you back off of the engagement thing with him, think about what it is you really want, and think about whether or not you see the two of you together ten years from now or is it that you''ve dated for so long that you really don''t want to step out of a comfort zone. What things would YOU like to accomplish? Is there anything that you''ve wanted to take a class on like dancing or art, etc? Perhaps if you start doing your own thing, the boyfriend''s reaction will be very telling. Have you actually sat down with him and had a serious conversation about getting married? It may be time for that if you haven''t.

 

[bee*]

Hi chocolatefudge, sorry to hear that you''re hurting. I agree with Mischka about reading back your old posts. It really doesn''t seem that he is interested in proposing. I know that you probably come here to vent but all your posts are about him putting off marriage, engagement and talking about it and you bought the house with him knowing this. I think this is time that you started putting yourself first and think about what you want. If he won''t even talk about this in a proper conversation with you, then there are issues. I wouldn''t sit back and not talk about it as it''s something that you really want and you guys have been together long enough and have a house together. I really wish that I could have a talk with him for you as you always come across so nice in your posts, that it would totally be his loss if he lost you!

 

[Miscka]

Date: 12/9/2008 12:29:17 PM
Author: Winks_Elf
the only thing worse than being kept on a string for eight years is being kept on a string for eight years and one day.

I love this.

 

[chocolatefudge]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all of your replies, I was really touched when I logged in and saw them all! I understand what some of you are saying about all of my past posts- when I re-read them it seems like I''m reading about someone else! My SO really is so lovely most of the time, but he''s like a different person when it come sto getting married. It''s so strange because I do believe that he wants to be with me forever, we just bought a house and we discuss having children- something that he is keen on. However, getting married just seems to lead to arguments, although we are both insistent that we will be married before we have children.

He does worry about money a lot and I''ve asked him if it''s the expense of a wedding that worried him but he says it isn''t! He confuses me so much!

From the outside looking in we appear to have a perfect relationship. There only thing we ever seem to argue about is getting married. The whole thing is making me tired, I am becoming obsessed with the idea! When I''m shopping and I see a couple together I check to see if she''s wearing an engagement ring, if someone mentions someone who has gotten engaged/ married I''m obsessed with how long they have been together. I know noone else matters but I''m driving myself crazy!!

The worst part of it all is wondering whether he''s not truly happy (although he says he is.) I had a dream that we broke up and he met someone else and they got engaged really quickly because he realised that she was ''the one'' and I never was.

I wish he''d never told me that it would happen this year. He had no intention of proposing and I''ve spent the whole year in a state of excitement wondering when it will happen

I don''t understand how he can lead me on like this if he really loves me, I couldn''t do it to him. If he wanted something so badly I wouldn''t promise it to him and take it away. And if I knew I was the only person to make it happen I would be honest with him about how I felt about it. This probably isn''t making sesne now.

Thank you again for the replies

 

[bee*]

Is there any way that you can write down how you''re feeling and have him read it. I did that before with D as I found that when we were trying to talk about something we''d row and I''d forget what I was trying to say to him and it just never came across in the right way. So I just wrote it down and left it for him to read. Then you can get your point across to him and he can see how you''re really feeling without either of you getting pissed off at each other.

 

[Erin]

Date: 12/9/2008 4:38:15 PM
I wish he''d never told me that it would happen this year. He had no intention of proposing and I''ve spent the whole year in a state of excitement wondering when it will happen

I don''t understand how he can lead me on like this if he really loves me, I couldn''t do it to him. If he wanted something so badly I wouldn''t promise it to him and take it away.

You''re right.
You''re right.
You''re right.

Listen carefully, men will always say exactly what they mean. They''re not quite as savvy at crafting statements that need read between the lines.
If you listen, you can usually hear the truth.

 

[Miscka]

Though I was with my ex only 2 years, I had grown weary of arguing about it too. We just wanted different things. I wanted to be with someone who was excited about marriage, and more importantly excited about marrying me. I knew that when/if he did propose it would be tainted with all that we had been through over the issue, and all my anxiety and questioning about our relationship. Recently he has been talking to me more again, and said "I told you to wait". Ummmm what??? I still think that I deserve to be with someone who REALLY REALLY wants to be with me, and that will never change. And I hope that one day he DOES find someone that he feels that way about, he deserves that too.

Anyway, I really hope that you can find a way to talk to your boyfriend about all of this. Your feelings are important and valid, and if he continues to brush you off you need to consider what that means. Starset is right, I think men sometimes dont know how to say what they mean when it might upset you, but they find a way. Eventually my ex said he wasnt sure "if/when" he would ever be ready. He had previously said many things about timelines, etc. that just werent true. The "when" I could handle, but the "if" was not ok.

Hugs to you!!! I really hope you get it all worked out for the best.

 

[LaraOnline]

I think it''s pathetic. Men need to have better manners. You''re already buying a house together. Yadda yadda.... everybody on PS already knows how I feel about this stuff!! Girl, I feel for you, hang in there and hopefully he''ll remember his manners soon. His mother should have brought him up better.

All the bet of the Christmas season to you, hey. Life is probably actually pretty sweet. Stay strong.

L.