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Choosing between 2 emerald cuts...

WuggaWugga

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
6
Hi all,

I've been looking for emerald cuts and so far have narrowed my search down to 2 (time constraints now, will be proposing during upcoming trip). Which would you personally choose and why? Retailer is pushing the 1.2 (even though it's less money) which makes me curious...her size is 4.75...
#1:
Weight: 1.2 carat
Color: F
Clarity: IF
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluor: Faint
Table %: 65
Depth %: 67
Girdle: ST to VT
Price: $6700

#2:
Weight: 1.5 carat
Color: G
Clarity: VS1
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluor: None
Table %: 66
Depth %: 67
Girdle: ST
Price $9500

Thanks!!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
You have no idea what you are doing. Do not buy either. Someone will be along in a while to explain why you are lost to you. Please hold on to your money till then
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,657
You need pictures and aset images to be able to evaluate fancy cut stones (Emerald cuts). We can not tell you anything from
the numbers. Please post pictures/aset images or put the stones on holds and post links to the stones. Request aset images if
you have not already done so. Emeralds are tricky so dont buy one without help.
 

WuggaWugga

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
6
For the 1.2, I am told an ASET is not available because it is located outside the diamond district??
t does have an extra facet, but according to JA advisor it's small and in a corner and would not affect light return. He thinks the lower price vs. same-sized options with similar specs is due to the faint fluorescence, for which many people rule out stones completely.
It is 411645 on JA.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Post pictures and links.

Numbers tell us nothing about ECs.

Faceting and performance are all that matter.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Have you posted here to get help narrowing them down? Because honestly, there are people here who are far more selective and knowledgeable than a phone sales associate. I don't think the 1.20 is going to be a good choice. I'd surely try hard to go to VS1 and get a larger stone, but seeing that cut is most important, it is good to look at all high clarity stones.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.20-carat-f-color-if-clarity-sku-411645

What is your max budget for the stone, first of all? Then maybe we can help you find a few good options and you can see which ones they can get ASETs for.
 

WuggaWugga

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
6
I've done some research over the past couple of days and am now probably at the point where I know just enough to get me in trouble, which is why I'm posting here now! :)
My budget for the stone is $9500 or so US$, or about $12,500 CAN. Adding on the ring itself (probably 14K-18K with 2 small baguettes perpendicular to center stone) and 12% tax, I'm looking at a total of about $16,000 CAD max. Preferably come in below that if I can find a great-value ring for less.
I am in Canada but could possibly purchase in the US as that is where gf lives. That adds a lot more options, which is possibly not a good thing, as I only have about 3.5 weeks to get this thing completely finished!
So I guess my general dilemma is do I go 1.2-1.3 or so (IF or VVS1), or do I go up to a 1.5 and sacrifice some clarity/color (although I know VS1, G is probably the low-end for EC)? What would you prefer receiving? I know she would be happy with almost stone 1.0+ as long it's emerald cut in her desired setting, which puts me under max budget. But I would like to spend a bit more to get something with more presence (and flash too) on her admittedly small finger, ergo the 1.2 to 1.5 range.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
VS1 is not a sacrifice, it is totally clean. G should be fine. Emerald cuts are on the deep side so they face up small. I'd 1000 times rather have a 1.5 G VS1 than a 1.2 F VVS1!

Are you talking about white gold? If so, I am going to recommend platinum. If yellow gold, then a platinum head and 18k yellow gold for the shank. But let's find the diamond first and we can help you with the setting!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
You aren't asking the right questions even. And you aren't listening to us. We are having two different conversations. So just please STOP. Flush all the information in your brain OUT. Just delete it all. And let us help you.

I have a headache and am trying not to be brusque.

Emerald cuts are nothing like rounds. You don't pick stats. You don't say: Should I go for a VVS or a VS.

No. No. No.

Pay attention. And put on your thinking cap.

Read this:


The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. With fancies "cut" refers to the faceting pattern and the light performance of the stone. NOT anything that can be found on a lab report. So do NOT go looking at the table and depth in a fancy. In fancies you set 'floors', no ceilings. What does that mean? For an EC, for example you set the following floors: You want eyeclean VS2 or better. You want H color or better. And you do not want a very thin girdle. You may want to add dimensions (NOT WEIGHT) that you want to hit. THAT IS YOUR FLOOR. Your only ceiling from there is your budget. So after you set your floor what do you do?

SO your next step is to look at vendors that have images and ASETs available and even videos and start looking at stones. There really is no other way to determine if you have a good fancy is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and where your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds.

But even an ASET is not, ideally, in and of itself enough to make a selection of a fancy. You want still images. And you want a video.

Why? Well a still is like a nice close up of someone's face. You want to see the stone over all, in terms of shape, the crown and the pattern of the facets and the overall "look" of the stone. A nice video can substitute for that of course. But not all vendors have really good videos. And the more images you get of a stone, the better, honestly.

The video shows you how and where the stone is playing with the available light. It will show you how the stone lights up and dances, and since it's never still on your hand it's important to see the stone in motion if you can. That said with step cuts you have to be very careful of videos were the stone is lying on it's side (like the JA videos). Those are deceptive with step cuts and are NEVER enough to make a decision of selection for a step cut (whereas they can be for cushions, for example), you absolutely need an ASET in combination with of of those videos. If you can't get one for that stone, either have the stone called in for a vendor that will get you one like IDJ, GOG, or BGD, or WF or move on.

And the ASET, well, that's explained above.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
diamondseeker2006|1472084637|4069714 said:
VS1 is not a sacrifice, it is totally clean. G should be fine. Emerald cuts are on the deep side so they face up small. I'd 1000 times rather have a 1.5 G VS1 than a 1.2 F VVS1!

Depends on the performance and dimensions of each. I would rather have a well cut, well performing 1 carat at H VS2 than a flat, dead 1.5 carat at D IF.

Emeralds are nothing like rounds. You can't buy them like they are.

You go for the best performing stone in your budget.
 

shaggy1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
146
Emerald cuts are one of the trickiest cuts to buy. I would really recommend that you take the advice of the very intelligent prosumers on this board. You need to find the best light return for your budget.

Is there a reason why you are rushing this?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198

WuggaWugga

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
6
We're going to Italy and going to the same spot where we first met.
She figured out a proposal was upcoming and we talked about what she might like generally.
Turns out she wants a fancy EC with baguettes on the side, to be a little different. Like she is :)
So what I thought I could easily turn around within a month is now becoming a lot more challenging. Brick and mortar places around here have essentially no ECs to look at, although I'm heading out now to try a couple more. A couple of them can bring a stone or 2 in from NY or wherever, but they're trying the old leave-a-deposit gambit.
If I buy online, then I can't see the stone and from what I'm learning on here is, have to try really hard to get ASETs etc. Which could eat up some time...but I want to do this right
 

shaggy1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
146
Gypsy said:
Best stones for budget:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/E140-414371760 If this stone is eyeclean, this is the best stone in terms of balance of performance and budget.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/E153-05Z32Z604 This is your other choice. It will be 100% eyeclean and is a lovely stone. The only issue is that it pushes your budget to the max.


Setting: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/rings/view/4W-5R
Wow. Awesome choices.

I like the setting a lot, too.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Gypsy|1472085607|4069724 said:
diamondseeker2006|1472084637|4069714 said:
VS1 is not a sacrifice, it is totally clean. G should be fine. Emerald cuts are on the deep side so they face up small. I'd 1000 times rather have a 1.5 G VS1 than a 1.2 F VVS1!

Depends on the performance and dimensions of each. I would rather have a well cut, well performing 1 carat at H VS2 than a flat, dead 1.5 carat at D IF.

Emeralds are nothing like rounds. You can't buy them like they are.

You go for the best performing stone in your budget.
:lol: You should definitely know with me, of all people, that I was referring to two equally well cut stones! He might not have, though!

Sooo, to be very clear, what I meant was if 3 fabulous, beautifully cut, well performing emerald cut stones are identified, I would choose a larger one that was G VS1 over a smaller one that was D IF when we are talking about the 1 to 1.5 ct range.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
diamondseeker2006|1472099927|4069823 said:
Gypsy|1472085607|4069724 said:
diamondseeker2006|1472084637|4069714 said:
VS1 is not a sacrifice, it is totally clean. G should be fine. Emerald cuts are on the deep side so they face up small. I'd 1000 times rather have a 1.5 G VS1 than a 1.2 F VVS1!

Depends on the performance and dimensions of each. I would rather have a well cut, well performing 1 carat at H VS2 than a flat, dead 1.5 carat at D IF.

Emeralds are nothing like rounds. You can't buy them like they are.

You go for the best performing stone in your budget.
:lol: You should definitely know with me, of all people, that I was referring to two equally well cut stones! He might not have, though!

Sooo, to be very clear, what I meant was if 3 fabulous, beautifully cut, well performing emerald cut stones are identified, I would choose a larger one that was G VS1 over a smaller one that was D IF when we are talking about the 1 to 1.5 ct range.
Believe me I was only clarifying for him.
:lol:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Okay!!! :bigsmile:

Listen, look at the stones Gypsy has recommended. You are going to do better choosing one that Gypsy has linked and get on with this ring process so you can get it done in time.

If possible, I'd go with the 1.53 G VVS diamond that she listed.

I'd only do platinum for the setting, though, which takes that setting up to $3900. I think that setting is way too high considering BG has a related setting at $2k. Not exactly the same, but I don't like the price on the ED setting.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/three-stone/emerald-and-baguette-platinum-5449p/?build=ring

Gypsy, DK might be able to do it for him in time? I really prefer a basket for the center stone in that style.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I do too. The price on the BE setting for me is ridiculous. But since he said he is pressed for time, I didn't want to make it a two step process.

I think BGD will take too long. But I agree there are much nicer baskets out there.

The best way to get it QUICK might be to see if IDJ can call the stone in and have it set by them. It would be one stop shopping, IDJ has great benches and makes the custom process, from what I can see, easy.

IDJ has been doing a good job with step cuts recently. So if that doesn't work they may be able to, quickly, find a great stone for him.

It might be a good fit.
 

WuggaWugga

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
6
Well, here's an update. I have decided to rule out ordering from the US, as the exchange rate is really crap right now, and then there's the customs delays etc. There is no way I can order to my gf's house. But thanks to all who looked at US options for me. The only real Canadian online option seems to be Blue Nile and I don't like what they have.
However I have found a broker in town who has sent me a couple of possibilities:
1) 1.51, F, VVS2, Ex/Ex/None, 63% T, 67% D, 1.28 ratio. They would do the setting too for a pretty fair price. The ASET is attached. The image doesn't look 100% straight, could that throw the colors off a bit? As is, is this ASET any better than mediocre?
2) 1.5, G, VVS2, Ex/Ex/None, 64% T, 69% D, 1.33 ratio. About $1.5K less than the first one. ASET also attached. Mediocre? Poor?

Appreciate any thoughts, I'm hoping to find one to purchase before weekend...

fsd_assetscope_1235285871_emerald_1.jpg

emerald_38.jpg
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
The F doesn't look photographed right. Yes, it is not accurate as a result. Have them retake it.

I'm not loving the second one. It's not terrible though.
 

WuggaWugga

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
6
Ok, here are 2 more:
1) is 1.52, G, VVS2, Ex/Ex/None, T% 63, D% 67.3, 1.37 ratio
2) is 1.5, F, VVS1, Ex/VG/None, T% 64, D% 67.6, 1.42 ratio

Thoughts on these 2 much appreciated!!!

grey_background.jpg

asset_scope.jpg

fsd_real_2227987841_emerald_1.jpg

fsd_assetscope_2227987841_emerald_1.jpg
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
The G just posted with the deep corners has promise. Might be tilted as well in the photo though.
 
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