Chatham sapphire from local jeweler or Africagems?

[ellebelle]

I'm looking to buy a 8x5 pear shape champagne sapphire for my e-ring. Well, boyfriend will be buying! We live near DTLA and found a jeweler who is an official vendor for Chatham. He was really nice and showed us a few natural options since he would have to place an order to get the Chathams. He's actually going to a gem show next week and will look for options for us. When he returns, he'll have natural and Chatham options for us to look through. While we wait, I've also looked for online vendors. I found options at Fire and Brilliance and Africagems. Fire and Brilliance had a higher mark up but the prices at AfricaGems are very tempting. Both had a 30 day return window.

My question is, would it be better to get the stone through a jeweler who order a few stones for us to pick from or order from an online vendor like Africagems? Is it reasonable to expect the jeweler to price match what we found online?

 

[Bron357]

Chatham’s Gems are synthetics ie man made. Despite their flash marketing they are no different in principle to the $10 synthetic sapphires on eBay.
Don’t get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing a synthetic over a natural especially if you have a specific colour, shape and size in mind, but they basically have no secondhand value.
If you were to decide at a later date to upsize, upgrade or change your engagement ring, a ring set with a synthetic gem is basically worth a bit more than the gold melt value.
A synthetic sapphire is corundum so it wears as well as the natural type but you don’t want to go spending a lot of money on buying a synthetic, Chatham’s is just a brand and while they market themselves as something special, at the end of the day, a synthetic sapphire is just a synthetic sapphire.

 

[ellebelle]

From my understanding, the really cheap ones are flame fusion but Chatham are flux-grown and internal identical to natural sapphires. Is that not right? I've doing a lot of research but I'm new to all this. Also the jeweler I met with mentioned that Chatham stones have less inclusions that mined? Is that true?
I have a very specific color I'm looking for, a light peach color, and I know I don't want to pay the going rate for a natural padparadscha. I've seen a few pads in my budget and they were quite small and not well cut. The way I see it, going synthetic I can get the color I want in a much bigger, much better cut stone and its internal the same. Is there a down side that I'm missing?
I have no interest in secondhand value and I don't plan to ever upgrade it.

 

[MollyMalone]

Hi, @ellebelle
Just a friendly FYI: ask the moderator to move this thread** to the Fabulous Fashion Jewelry forum
https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/fabulous-fashion-jewelry.95/
The Colored Gemstones forum is for discussion of natural gemstones & RockyTalky is intended for questions-information about natural diamonds only -- see the Community home page re the topics of the various forums:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/

But "anything goes" in the Fabulous Fashion Jewelry forum that was launched this past September, so that's why you'll see posts about moissanite, CZs, etc. This thread might particularly interest you:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-well-cut-lab-created-gemstones.239538/

** Hit the Report Concern button at the bottom of your first post here & a text box will open up where you can type in your request.

 

[Anne111]

Synthetic is synthetic. Not a gem IMHO.

 

[chrono]

If the material is the same, it’s still a gem (made of the same mineral). The only difference is knowing one is man made whilst the other is nature made and should be priced accordingly.

 

[rockysalamander]

The challenge with synthetic sapphire will be that they don't come in a pale peach rough. The most valuable earth-mined pad are a deep orangy peach pink. So, that is the color they make. See below for full chart, but this is a typical color for a lab-grown pad sapphire.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/600106...arch_query=peach lab grown&ref=sr_gallery-1-5

Chatham is the only vendor I know of with a pale peach lab-created, though I certainly don't know them all, but I think you are correct to look at them. I would not, however, buy anything until you have aligned a maker of the setting (or find a stock one). If its stock, the stone has to fit exactly. If its custom, I don't see how you'll get the stone and setting you want in your $1500 budget. There is no "standard" measurements for a "stock" pear. So, if you find a stock setting you like, you need to find something that fits that maker's measurements.

But, the setting you like with the graduated halo stones would need to be 100% custom and all the inspiration pics you've posted have HUGE stones. The specific one you like is from Kristin Coffin and it is $4200 with moissanite (that likely only add about $200 of the cost, 10x7 mm pear). Fire&Brilliance, a good vendor, has a Chatham pear 10*7 mm for $965. So, that drops your setting budget to $535. So, I think you really need to think hard about your priorities and examine your budget. Maybe getting a quote from David Klass based on a Chatham stone will give you a clearer idea of the likely cost and if you want to save more before acting.

F&B Pear: https://fireandbrilliance.com/produ...champagne-sapphire-gems?variant=8126602936417

A true pale peach is actually fairly easy to acquire in earth-mined and the price is really about size and the quality of the cut. In your budget, I would recommend reaching out to Rogerio. He has precision cut stones in a range of prices and his settings are quite affordable. In particular, this seems to have some elements of the setting you liked. WIth the two modifications you noted (a few larger melee in the halo) and eliminate the pave on the shank -- he may be able to make this in the budget. Just be clear about the size of the stone you want and can afford.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/593314...ga_search_query=pear&ref=shop_items_search_17

Synthetic General Color Range

 

[rockysalamander]

You could also see if Joseph Schubach has any peachy pink options.
http://blog.schubachstore.com/blog/2011/03/19/peachy-pink-cushion-cut-moissanite/

 

[MissyBeaucoup]

Rogerio has some beautiful designs for bridal pinks. Definitely look there. Pretty things! Congratulations to both of you! <3

May I share my experience? I bought a lab made gemstone ring as one of my earliest ventures into collecting. I learned from it. I learned that huge is not my friend, since I have small fingers and am fussy about the weight swinging around. I also found this fake stone to be really lifeless and uniform. I hate it now and it is close to worthless and I am donating it to the animal shelter thrift store. I would much rather have a less expensive, well cut stone that has a microscopic world of inclusions inside. As you learn more, I really think you’ll appreciate a real gemstone more, even if it’s something other than a sapphire. Just my two cents.

 

[daneshpastry]

From my understanding, the really cheap ones are flame fusion but Chatham are flux-grown and internal identical to natural sapphires. Is that not right? I've doing a lot of research but I'm new to all this. Also the jeweler I met with mentioned that Chatham stones have less inclusions that mined? Is that true?
I have a very specific color I'm looking for, a light peach color, and I know I don't want to pay the going rate for a natural padparadscha. I've seen a few pads in my budget and they were quite small and not well cut. The way I see it, going synthetic I can get the color I want in a much bigger, much better cut stone and its internal the same. Is there a down side that I'm missing?
I have no interest in secondhand value and I don't plan to ever upgrade it.

Chatham gemstones absolutely are NOT the same as what's sold on eBay (et al.)

The misunderstanding many have is that Chatham produces "synthetic" stones. Depending on how you define synthetic, that is both right and wrong. Chatham stones are grown in a lab, and are produced from the same materials as their mined-counterparts, but at an expedited pace. A synthetic, to me, is either glass, CZ, or the like, and they shouldn't be grouped in with these inferior stones.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing a Chatham stone, so don't fall into the hype that they're "not the real thing." As far as who to buy it from - you'll probably get a better deal buying the stone and providing it to your jeweler, but it's worth finding out what the jeweler charges before you do that. Some will up the price of the setting to offset the loss of purchasing the stone on your behalf.

You are correct that Chatham stones will have fewer inclusions for the price. Best of luck with your project!

 

[prs]

I think Africa Gems do a lot of wholesale business and the prices posted on their website are full retail so they are not seen to be undercutting their retail customers. If you find something you like on their site you might be better off having your setter source it for you.

 

[1001smiles]

Stuller carries Chatham stones and your local jeweler should be able to order it:
https://www.stuller.com/search/results/?query=chatham+sapphire+champagne

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

My question is, would it be better to get the stone through a jeweler who order a few stones for us to pick from or order from an online vendor like Africagems? Africagems option requires you pay up front and get a refund if you return the stone. The jeweler allows you to view without paying. Due to that I would review the jeweler's stones first and if they were lacking I would then turn to Africagems.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Not all lab created sapphire are the same. The most often used process is call Flame Fusion. This is also the least expensive method. Another method used that produces better results is the Hydrothermal method. In blue sapphires, and other colors similar to blue, the flame fusion produces a rod that is split, the issue is most all the color is at the outside edge, with the center almost colorless. When cutting you need to be very mindful of where you place the color. Too close to the outside is over colored and produces a dark stone, too far away and the saturation is low as is the tone. With the Hydrothermal method, the color is consistent throughout the piece.

I took a picture to try to show this. The Flame fusion is on the right. It's hard to see from the photo, but the piece on the left has consistent color and tone.

There is also a huge difference in price. The hydrothermal piece cost me actually 56 times the price per carat of the flame fusion.

 

[ellebelle]

But, the setting you like with the graduated halo stones would need to be 100% custom and all the inspiration pics you've posted have HUGE stones. The specific one you like is from Kristin Coffin and it is $4200 with moissanite (that likely only add about $200 of the cost, 10x7 mm pear). Fire&Brilliance, a good vendor, has a Chatham pear 10*7 mm for $965. So, that drops your setting budget to $535. So, I think you really need to think hard about your priorities and examine your budget. Maybe getting a quote from David Klass based on a Chatham stone will give you a clearer idea of the likely cost and if you want to save more before acting.

I'm actually looking more in 8x5 size range. I have size 5 fingers and I'm under 5ft tall so I typically wear smaller dainty jewelry. I found the same Chatham stones on Africagems for a much lower price which would leave about 1200 for the setting.
I haven't found anything on the cut of Chatham stones varying from stone to stone. So is it safe to assume the quality of cut and color would be the same from any vendor? If its the same quality of stones, I obviously don't want to pay more just for mark up.
Also I'm meeting with Amy from DK's studio tomorrow that will give me a better idea what is within range.
And thank you for all the links and info

Africagems option requires you pay up front and get a refund if you return the stone. The jeweler allows you to view without paying. Due to that I would review the jeweler's stones first and if they were lacking I would then turn to Africagems.

Yes it would be most convenient to have the jeweler pay the upfront cost to view multiple stones. We will most likely pick the stone this way as long as the mark up isnt too bad.

Thank you everyone else for all the advice and vendors to check out.

 

[rockysalamander]

I'm pretty confident that the stones sold at AfricaGems are actually cut by Chatham. So, they should look identical to any other Chatham peach stone you see. That said, I have found Chatham to be a bit inconsistent in cutting. Some are good and some are meh. So, if you buy locally, ask them to bring a few in to determine which you like best. If you do get a ring from David Klass, he may be able to acquire Chatham stones directly. He has a good eye for cut.

 

[ellebelle]

I'm pretty confident that the stones sold at AfricaGems are actually cut by Chatham. So, they should look identical to any other Chatham peach stone you see. That said, I have found Chatham to be a bit inconsistent in cutting. Some are good and some are meh. So, if you buy locally, ask them to bring a few in to determine which you like best. If you do get a ring from David Klass, he may be able to acquire Chatham stones directly. He has a good eye for cut.

We met with Amy from DK yesturday and though she wasnt able to get the stones for us, she was super helpful with the setting and I'm so excited to see what they came up with! We decided to bite the bullet and order 4 chatham stones online. There was a memorial day sale and seemed like it would be better than the jewelers prices. The site has great return policy so we have 30 days to choose and return the rest for full refund. I was even thinking of bringing them in david because I'd like to see how the colors look against a rose gold setting. And if he could inspect the cut that would be even better. Is it ok to ask for that?

 

[Irving]

Not all lab created sapphire are the same. The most often used process is call Flame Fusion. This is also the least expensive method. Another method used that produces better results is the Hydrothermal method. In blue sapphires, and other colors similar to blue, the flame fusion produces a rod that is split, the issue is most all the color is at the outside edge, with the center almost colorless. When cutting you need to be very mindful of where you place the color. Too close to the outside is over colored and produces a dark stone, too far away and the saturation is low as is the tone. With the Hydrothermal method, the color is consistent throughout the piece.

I took a picture to try to show this. The Flame fusion is on the right. It's hard to see from the photo, but the piece on the left has consistent color and tone.

There is also a huge difference in price. The hydrothermal piece cost me actually 56 times the price per carat of the flame fusion.

So are the Chatham gems the hydrothermal method or the flame fusion or ???

Thanks!

 

[lindam1503]

So are the Chatham gems the hydrothermal method or the flame fusion or ???

Thanks!

I would love to know the answer to this question too, and thank you SO much for the explanation. I had seen the word "hydrothermal" before, but had no idea what it meant!

 

[swaye2010]

My jeweler is in downtown LA and brought back a selection of natural sapphires from the trade show in Vegas last month. He knows I am always looking so he sends me things he knows I am interested in. These are rounds and I am not sure what shape you are set on but he does have some peach sapphires that are not pad’s.
https://imgur.com/a/VsYn1ei