shape
carat
color
clarity
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PriceScope Upgrade Completed
    For issues, questions and comments click the link below
    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pricescope-upgraded-comments-and-issues.229551/

    Dismiss Notice

Certification and antique stones...necessary??

Discussion in 'Antique and Vintage Jewelry' started by Heartly, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Heartly
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    by Heartly » Jan 13, 2012
    Hi PS! I'm brand new here and a diamond novice. I had a meeting with Adam at OWD the other day where he showed me many wonderful stones, I loved most of them. When it comes to diamonds, I am finding I am not particularly discerning. I love colors from D-P (obviously dependent on the stone, but I've seen many in the spectrum I love), eye clean is fine by me, and I am absolutely loving antique old mine and cushions. I am looking to purchase a stone to set, and besides being able to insure it, I am really not worried about it's value to anyone else. I just want a gorgeous stone!

    So, the question: some of these amazing stones I saw were uncertified. I have read as much as I can on here (let me know if I missed a major discussion on this), but I'm wondering, for my purposes, does it really need to be certified?? What's the bottom line advantage? I know people say 'you don't really know what you're getting,' but if I love the look of what I'm getting...does it matter? I feel like I must be missing something, so definitely enlighten me!! Thank you!
     
  2. stci
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,514
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    by stci » Jan 13, 2012
    Hello!

    If you don't think to resale your ring some day, it's really not important to have a certificate. But if you want to insure it, you will need a certification from a jeweler. No need to go to GIA or whatever, just a jeweler. Just my 2 cents...
     
  3. SparklyOEC
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,373
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    by SparklyOEC » Jan 13, 2012
    Ditto Staci. It really isn't necessary to have a certificate with an antique diamond, but many vendors are doing that (ID Jewelery, JBEG and some at OWD). I personally like the idea of having a certificate with the diamond, but that's my personal preference for identification of color, clarity, measurements and so on for my insurance company. EGL is not as strict with their grading as say, GIA. If you're comfortable not having a certificate, you will need an appraisal. HTH.
     
  4. Heartly
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    by Heartly » Jan 14, 2012
    Thanks for the info!! I've never insured any jewelry, so obviously I will have to look more into that (as Staci mentioned). But yeah, I can't imagine reselling, but also, I'm not looking at something wildly expensive (relative, I know) with a lot to lose, either. I'm glad to know it isn't a completely outrageous idea though...makes the reality of owning my own seem closer!
     
  5. yennyfire
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,395
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    by yennyfire » Jan 14, 2012
    Heaven forbid, the stone is ever lost, having a cert. will make it much easier to deal with the insurance company. An appraisal can be totally inflated, so my guess is that the insurance company would offer you the least amount possible, since you can't prove to them with certainty what your stone is. JMHO....
     
  6. stci
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,514
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    by stci » Jan 15, 2012
    But a certificate never mention price for the ring! If the ring is lost, a certificate only is not the best. An appraisal can be inflated, it's true but at least they gave a price for the remplacement of the jewel.
     
  7. yennyfire
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,395
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    by yennyfire » Jan 16, 2012
    When my ering was lost, the appraisal was totally disregarded. The insurance co. gave me what an equal stone (i.e. cut/color/clarity/carat weight) would cost in the marketplace. I'm not saying an appraisal is a bad thing, but insurance company's know that they can be inflated and they do their own research/have their own experts. As a matter of fact, we'd been paying our premiums based on the appraisal value, but that's not what the company gave me, nor would they refund the difference in the premium we'd been paying for years versus the premium we should have been paying based on their assessment of the value of my ring.

    So, when we insured my new ring, I specifically asked Ari to give me a realistic appraisal so that I wouldn't be paying sky high premiums that are useless in the event that the stone is ever lost. This is just my own opinion/experience of course. :))
     
  8. Heartly
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    by Heartly » Jan 17, 2012
    Thanks for the info everyone! So, if we look at the insurance issue separately, it seems like there isn't a huge need for me to have a certified stone if I love it and am happy (and comfortable) buying an uncertified stone.

    From an insurance perspective, it looks like I will have to dig deep and research how to approach this, what factors will be needed (whether cert from a jeweler or an appraisal), and what the insurance will cover in the event of a loss. This will be the sticky part, but I'm glad to know it's still an option.

    Thanks again!
     
  9. mrsjacob
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    125
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    by mrsjacob » Jan 17, 2012
    Sorry if any of this has already been said, or is not so relevant. I just wanted to share my experience.

    I have an heirloom diamond with no certification. My MIL gave it to us with a really old appraisal, and no cert. I called our insurance company to ask what they recommended. They said a certification was not necessary, but I needed to update the appraisal (and update every 5 years).

    I sent them the new appraisal, and they advised me that a research team would review it and approve or deny it. They accepted it, insured it, and that was that.

    Now, I have no experience with the disadvantages of not having a certification, but it does seem like it would be best to have one....but if I ever lose their family diamond, I won't be worried too much about the insurance pay-out. I'll be a dead woman. lol :lol:
     
  10. Heartly
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    by Heartly » Jan 17, 2012
    MrsJacob, that's basically what I've been trying to figure out. "...It does seem like it would be best to have one..." Everyone seems to be on the same page about that, I just can't quite figure out why (for my purposes).
     
  11. sphenequeen
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    by sphenequeen » Jan 19, 2012
    If you want to have peace of mind that you are getting what you paid for, then have them send the stone to EGL - the process is relatively quick and affordable. You will most likely have to pay for this out of your pocket and only once you commit to purchasing the piece. If the diamond is not certed, it should be priced accordingly (i.e you will pay a premium for GIA certed stones).

    Good Luck!
     
  12. Heartly
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    by Heartly » Jan 20, 2012
    Thanks sphenequeen! This may be a stupid question, but the EGL will just give me their ratings or stats on the stone, correct? It wouldn't give an idea of price...
     
  13. SparklyOEC
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,373
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    by SparklyOEC » Jan 22, 2012
    In most cases, you're correct. I have seen some EGL's with a value on them, but I'd rather have an expert appraiser. With an old stone, I would highly recommend Dave Atlas, he's fantastic to work with and he's fair. He's Old Miner here on the boards. Also be aware that EGL isn't as stringent with their grading of diamonds regarding color and clarity. In my case, the EGL stated K VS1, but Dave found it to be L VS2 (which wasn't unexpected on my part because I've been researching old cut diamonds for a couple of years and I also knew EGL was rather loose on their grading). May I also suggest you inquire about the girdle? In my case, I had a bruted, very thin to thin girdle (as many old stones are). The concern with a girdle like this is that if you set it in, lets say 4 prongs, the diamond could chip, so most people would recommend a bezel setting.
     
  14. sphenequeen
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    by sphenequeen » Jan 27, 2012
    If you request a full EGL report, they usually come with an appraisal of the stone that offers a (rather inflated) value of the stone. This could be good for insurance purposes in case you end up paying high retail to replace the piece if it is ever lost.
     

Share This Page