Certificates

[youngnlove]

What''s the difference between the different certificates? Is GIA better than EGL? I was looking at a couple of different diamonds that were generally the same except for their certificate, and the GIA was more expensive. Also, I saw an EGL certificate for a round diamond, and it had the pavilion depth at 44%, the crown height at 14%, but the overall depth was 62%. Why is this number not 58%? It has a medium girdle....that wouldn''t account for 4% would it? Thanks!

 

[youngnlove]

Here's the exact numbers. The first is the one i'm looking at and it's about $700 less than the second one. Just wondering if it has anything to do with the EGL certificate. Also, notice the numbers for the depth vs. pavilion% + crown%. Thanks!

Diamond 1.....

Report:.........EGL
Shape:..........Round
Cut:............Ideal
Carat:..........0.75
Color:..........H
Clarity:........VS1
Depth:..........62.3
Table:..........58
Crown Angle:....33.5
Crown %:........14.1
Pavilion Angle:.41.5
Pavilion %:.....43.8
Girdle:.........Medium
Polish:.........Very Good
Symmetry:.......Excellent
Culet:..........None
Fluorescence:...No
Measurements:...5.88-5.80X3.64

Diamond 2.....

Report:.........GIA
Shape:..........Round Ideal Cut
Carat:..........0.75
Color:..........H
Clarity:........VS1
Depth:..........61.5
Table:..........58
Girdle:.........MD-STK
Polish:.........Very Good
Symmetry:.......Very Good
Culet:..........None
Fluorescence:...No
Measurements:...5.83-5.87X3.60

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/3/2005 6

7:29 PM
Author: youngnlove
Here''s the exact numbers. The first is the one i''m looking at and it''s about $700 less than the second one. Just wondering if it has anything to do with the EGL certificate. Also, notice the numbers for the depth vs. pavilion% + crown%. Thanks!

Diamond 1.....

Report:.........EGL
Shape:..........Round
Cut:............Ideal
Carat:..........0.75
Color:..........H
Clarity:........VS1
Depth:..........62.3
Table:..........58
Crown Angle:....33.5
Crown %:........14.1
Pavilion Angle:.41.5
Pavilion %:.....43.8
Girdle:.........Medium
Polish:.........Very Good
Symmetry:.......Excellent
Culet:..........None
Fluorescence:...No
Measurements:...5.88-5.80X3.64

Diamond 2.....

Report:.........GIA
Shape:..........Round Ideal Cut
Carat:..........0.75
Color:..........H
Clarity:........VS1
Depth:..........61.5
Table:..........58
Girdle:.........MD-STK
Polish:.........Very Good
Symmetry:.......Very Good
Culet:..........None
Fluorescence:...No
Measurements:...5.83-5.87X3.60

thee above 2 stone will not qualify to be an AGS ideal 0 cut.

 

[youngnlove]

"thee above 2 stone will not qualify to be an AGS ideal 0 cut.
Remember; it''s harder to find a "MIND CLEAN" stone then a eye clean stone.....AKA vtigger86"

what do you mean? are you saying that neither of those stones are really ideal cuts? or just the 2nd one? what would be your opinion on that first stone as far as what it could potentially be at the "eye" standard? thanks.

 

[chantheman]

With regard to the certificates, it is generally accepted that GIA certs will attach a premium if you will to stones they accompany. Many people feel that GIA and AGS certs are more reliable than the certs provided by EGL. I have never looked for EGL stones, but this unreliability can be minimized if you look for a stone with a cert provided by EGL USA. One small nicety provided by EGL certs are the crown and pavillion percentages.

Surely there are amazing stones in the marketplace accompanied by EGL certs, and if you are lucky enough to find one of these you should be able to get it for a solid price.

 

[youngnlove]

so what''re your thoughts on diamond 1 above? considering the EGL certification and the numbers listed there, what are you opinions?

 

[chantheman]

Well, keep in mind that I haven''t seen the stone.....

The Holloway cut advisor is a good screening tool that can be used to help you avoid buying poor performing stones.
Entering the values from your cert yields a score of 4.8. This translates into "good--only if price is your main criterion."
While the HCA cannot judge the visual performance of the actual stone, it does provide a good starting point.

EGL will have a different set of parameters it uses to grad a stone ideal. GIA and AGS Ideal parameters do not correspond in this case to the specs presented by your stone. It has already been said that GIA and AGS are considered to be more reliable labs.

This stone may still be a solid performer if you can assess its visual performance in a variety of lighting conditions.
Additionally, the minor facets of a diamond play a role in its visual performance.

Are there better performing stones out there.....most surely.

Would I buy this stone...........I would pass and keep on looking.

If you use the search feature of the PS home page you will be able to find many stones in the size range you are looking in. I would suggest you begin there.

 

[youngnlove]

thanks chan, i appreciate your input....i''ll check out this site''s search....thanks again!

 

[pqcollectibles]

EGL is reaching a bit with the Ideal label. If you just look at table and depth %, the EGL diamond is within AGS0 specs. But that's seemingly about all that meets Ideal criteria based on the HCA score.

The GIA stone is hiding a tad bit of weight in the girdle. A very well cut 0.75 carat will have a diameter very close to 6mm. I'd suspect an Ideal Scope image would show a bit of light leakage at the girdle. Also, GIA Ideals have Excellent Symmetry and Excellent Polish. If your posting is accurate in the labeling, someone is calling the diamond Ideal when it really isn't quite Ideal.

 

[youngnlove]

here''s the ideal scope for the EGL diamond above, from whiteflash.com.....

http://tinypic.com/1j6ulf

i''m not sure how to interpret a picture like this. any tips and/or comments about this one? thanks.

 

[asblackrock]

Hi youngnlove
I am only a novice, but it looks like a good idealscope image.
As I understand it, lots of red means good light return, lots of little bits of black means good scintillation (as opposed to heavy black arrows) and little bits of white at the edges (leakage) can actually improve the appearance.

 

[pqcollectibles]

If you will check the WF listing on that diamond, WF does not call it a Round Ideal Cut. WF is offering this diamond thru their Expert Selection as a Round Brilliant. Not Ideal.

I went to the Sarin report, and using the numbers there, the HCA score comes in at 4.2 instead of 4.8 from the Cert. The grading labs run Sarin on diamonds they Cert, and that becomes the official Sarin for the diamond. Some improvement in score, but still no where close to 2. The IS image is rather nice, tho, compared to what I might have expected from the HCA score. This diamond does exhibit some arrows patterns and the limited light leakage might contribute to improved contrast in the diamond. Being a bit deeper cut, this diamond might also lean toward a bit more firey performance than a similar, more shallow cut stone.

Another thing to consider, with this being a WF Expert Selection stone, this diamond was hand selected by Brian Gavin to be offered by WF. Brian has a very discerning eye and only selects diamonds with pleasing performance. Also, the pricing is quite attractive as well. Comparable diamonds currently being offered by PS Vendors range from $2450 to nearly $3K in price.

You might give WF a call and chat with them about this diamond. Get their impressions on the visual performance of the diamond. It would be interesting to hear what the folks at WF have to say.