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Carat/color vs fluorescence

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Mkl91, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. Mkl91
    Rough_Rock

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  2. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Dancing Fire » Aug 11, 2019
    Not too crazy about the 1.63ct. Any I-scope, H&A and ASET pics on 1.66ct ? faint or none fluorescence doesn't effect the diamond's performance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  3. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Aug 11, 2019
    Pass on the G. You have minor leakage under the table as evidenced on the ASET. You can also see inconsistencies in the hearts image.

    The F is promising -- 57 table, 61.6 depth, 35 crown, 40.8 pavilion and 75 LGF. I'd agree with @Dancing Fire that I'd like to see an ASET, idealscope and/or H&A image. While the specs of this stone fall within recommended parameters I've seen quite a few 35/40.8 combos with leaky ASET's. I've also seen some great ones. Hence the reason you should make a request to Yadav for the advanced images.

    On a separate note, both stones have IF clarity. Is this a cultural preference? You are likely paying a hefty premium on a quality that doesn't highly impact real life viewing. Remember clarity is graded using a 10x scope, so an eye clean SI1 or even a VS2 offers a good bang for the buck without sacrificing beauty.

    In regards to fluorescence, you should read up on it. The short version is it gets a bad rep by uneducated people so stones do trade for less money when they have fluor. The higher the color the less desirable fluor is. That said, we are normally talking strong to very strong levels. Faint levels aren't much of a concern IMO and helps you get a better deal. More savvy buyers know that even stones with higher levels are normally safe to purchase. You just want to make sure they dont get a cloudy or milky appearance -- again, more of a concern with the higher levels of fluor.
     
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  4. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 11, 2019
    Definitely no on the G. The other one has potential, but having IS/ASET would help a lot. And agree that IF is huge overkill on clarity unless there are cultural preferences at play. You won't see any benefit from clarity above VS1/VS2 (and you can often find lovely eye clean SI1 stones), so I would definitely be thinking about that if I were you. Faint fluor is no problem. Only a small percentage of stones are negatively affected by fluor, and only if it's "very strong".
     
    


    


  5. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 11, 2019
    With your budget, I'd want the best possible cut from the best companies. If you can move away from IF, you'll open up much better options. Whiteflash and high performance diamonds both have $1 upgrade policies, great benches for settings, and amazing customer service. Yadav is a drop shipper, so they won't own any of their stones in house.

    Any of these are a much better choice IMHO.
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10562

    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10667

    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10619

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4123879.htm
     
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  6. acted
    Rough_Rock

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    by acted » Aug 11, 2019
    I think am the only one against moving to bellow vvs1. Stay where you at or just move down to vvs1 and no lower than that.

    Good luck!
     
  7. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Dancing Fire » Aug 11, 2019
    Why?? :confused:
     
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  8. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 11, 2019
    Do you have any reason for telling OP this?
     
  9. acted
    Rough_Rock

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    by acted » Aug 11, 2019
    Because I like both mind and eye clean stone :)
     
  10. acted
    Rough_Rock

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    by acted » Aug 11, 2019
    The cleaner the better especially is for diamonds in this big, in my opinion.
     
    


    


  11. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 11, 2019
    Except that anything over Vs2/VS1 is literally an invisible difference. So it's not "cleaner" in any discernable way.
     
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  12. Swirl68
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Swirl68 » Aug 11, 2019
    Do you think you would be ok with the fact you had an IF clarity stone and then it was only a G in color? If I had an IF stone in that size, I think I would probably dwell on the fact that it was not a D or E in color. Even an IF in F color would probably eat at me a little. (Not as much as the G would though.) IF and VVS1 clarity just kind of seems like it needs near perfection in color as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  13. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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  14. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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  15. acted
    Rough_Rock

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    by acted » Aug 11, 2019
    I have E, F, G, H all in vvs1 (in range .90, 1.01, 3.30, 1.50 and 5.50ct). I Ilke them all not counting the I/IF 3ct yet.

    The only three I wear together are 1.50 earrings, 5.50ct ring, and Rolex platinum diamond watch.

    The rest E,F,G are rings for daily wear, one at the time. I was never before wear 2 rings on both hands not even with my diamond bangle.
    So different colors don’t make my eyes sore lol.
    I can tolerate to I of GIA though.
     
    


    


  16. acted
    Rough_Rock

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  17. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Aug 12, 2019
    That's fine. However, this thread isn't about your personal preferences or feelings. It is about Op, and we are trying to educate him about the trade offs in terms of budget. IF clarity provides zero actual percievable benefits, and comes at a massive cost premium. I largely feel the same about D vs E/F color for *most* people who aren't extremely color sensitive.


    Dcolor and IF clarity aren't necessary for 99% of the population bc so many people cannot see the difference between D/IF vs G/vs2 or eye clean SI1. that's just a fact. If his GF needs IF clarity for cultural reasons then that's totally fine, but it would be pretty silly of us not to point out to him that he can get a better stone for his $$ if he drops down in clarity.

    Edit. At least D vs other colors are visible to *some* people. VS and IF are literally invisible differences unless you have a microscope.
     
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  18. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Aug 12, 2019
    You hit the nail on the head -- MIND clean.

    There is a difference. An eye clean stone will have no inclusions visible to the naked eye. A mind clean stone has the added bonus of being eye clean, plus a squeaky clean clarity plot that gives a sense of security to some individuals.

    I might add there is no industry standard definition of eye clean. However, several vendors such as WF and HPD/CBI define eye clean as no inclusions visible to a person with 20/20 vision in good lighting, looking as close as 10" at the top of the diamond.

    However, it is in the buyer's interest to confirm the policy with the specific vendor they are working with to ensure everyone is on the same page. Also, if a buyer has higher visual acuity than the average Joe, he/she may wish to modify the definition so it better fits their unique needs. Doing this may increase the minimum acceptable clarity grade, which ultimately may affect available options and have a net increase on price.

    All this is important to understand, because diamonds are a zero sum game. What does that mean? It's simple, there are 5 C's to buying diamonds -- yes 5 -- as we have to consider cost/budget. When your cost/budget is fixed then you will need to adjust the other 4 C's up/down to find an acceptable contender.

    If you don't have eagle eyes, cultural requirements, or suffer from mind clean issues then keeping clarity as low as possible to achieve eye clean status is a smart way to stretch your dollar, as it will allow you to get better color and/or a bigger diamond.

    The above in mind, I would respectfully disagree that VVS+ clarity is "needed" unless the OP indicates otherwise. I'd suggest a very clean SI1 or VS2 personally.


    Key words -- IN YOUR OPINION.

    While this stone is a decent size at 1.6ct, it is not abnormally large. However, there is some truth that larger stones benefit from higher clarity. With a smaller stone you can get away with worse clarity as there is less diamond and opportunity to see imperfections.

    That said, you can resolve this issue by careful vetting of a quality SI1 or VS2 stone, and have absolutely zero problems. I'm sure a few unicorn eye clean SI2's exist as well.


    For the most part I agree with you. Then I am reminded of @Wink's story of the customer that walked in and from afar said he could see inclusions in a VS+ stone. As I best recall, the story went that Wink had to get his scope to confirm what the guy said. A true set of eagle eyes.

    Sorry Wink if I messed up any details -- I'm going off memory here.

    Regardless, that is a pretty rare situation. Still there might be a few cases where there could be a discernible difference to an eagle eyes buyer.


    Not shabby, but a 54 table and 34.5/40.8 or 35/40.6 with some 75 LGF's might make it a little better. :P2:lol-2:

    Seriously, a gorgeous stone. :love:


    Come on squeaky cheeks, we know you are a playa!

    Reminds of Mix A Lot song I converted to diamond lingo.... :mrgreen2::lol-2::P2

    My Quirky Lyrics:
    The Westerners say Asians are whack
    Size isn't all it's cracked up to be, so trust me 1-point-2 <pause> carats is plenty phat
    I buy D's & E's, not F's and G's
    Add VS1+ clarity and I snatch'm up faster than happy meals
    GIA Triple X certification, I own the motherf*ckin' label
    And I promise you, I got the papers on the table
    And I'm buyin' just like that
    No super ideal premiums so my pocket stays fat
    A lot of Westerner clowns tried to convince me otherwise but they didn't
    Huh, cause this Asian culture wasn't bullsh*ttin'​

    The Original Lyrics (fast forward to 2:44):


    Yeah, H&A stones are horrible. I wouldn't buy them either. Oh wait, already did -- and my wife loves it and all the compliments she gets practically every time we go somewhere. :P2

    Seriously, do some reading and you will learn that while it's possible to find a great GIA triple X, there are more bad ones than good ones.

    Super ideal vendors focus on the top 1% of diamonds. There is a premium associated, but I believe you do get something special with it. But then again I'm also the guy that would pay extra to run the 1320 in 9.x seconds vs 10 seconds. Simply stated, I value performance.

    The above said, those are my preferences. It doesn't work for everyone and that's cool too. I will continue to help people find super ideals or GIA stones that is as great as possible, rather it's D or K or SI1 or IF. It's just necessary to understand the premiums associated with your desires and if you are okay with spending your money that way.


    Phhhssshhh....speak for yourself....D & E is practically like black & white to me. ;)2:whistle:
     
  19. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Aug 13, 2019
    I think I speak for everyone when I say that it would be lovely to see your collection :))
     
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  20. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Dancing Fire » Aug 13, 2019
    Not my kind of stone either, but if you must have a D IF stone may as well buy a super ideal cut. ;)) Look at it this way a 1ct D IF stone back in the early 80's was like $60K?? and probably not as well cut.
     
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