Can you help me compare these two antique cushions??? ERD and GOG

[laine]

Date: 5/21/2010 8:34:25 AM
Author: ccb0x45
Since this thread got pretty long and hectic I might as well let people know my final decision.

It came down to my GF deciding, she saw the ERD cushion in person and absolutely fell in love with it and it was over. So we went with that(which I am happy about because it was cheaper for me

Also Mark sent me the ASSET right after I formally requested it, although it looks different from the GOG ones(on a black background for one).

Congrats on choosing a diamond! Any chance you could share the ASET with us? I'm just curious about the differences...

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Congrats! I can''t wait to see the finished ring

 

[missydebby]

You know, you guys were definitely choosing between 2 absolute winners. I was in the same position and it was so hard, that I ended up getting a non AVC antique chunky cushion for my ring and a couple of AVC''s for earrings. I''m almost of the opinion that they should just be two different category of cut, just like Old Mine Cuts are the earliest version of Round Brilliant. (loose analogy)

Congrats on your purchase and I''m so glad you found a diamond she loves, for a great price, from a wonderful vendor. Winner x 3

Now just make sure to post pictures of the ring and hand shots so we can all drool in unison...

 

[vbnet]

Date: 5/21/2010 8:34:25 AM
Author: ccb0x45
Since this thread got pretty long and hectic I might as well let people know my final decision.

It came down to my GF deciding, she saw the ERD cushion in person and absolutely fell in love with it and it was over. So we went with that(which I am happy about because it was cheaper for me

Also Mark sent me the ASSET right after I formally requested it, although it looks different from the GOG ones(on a black background for one).

Thanks to mark for finding something in the size she wanted while saving me some money, and my gf REALLY appreciated getting to see it in person as well.

If the stone really has all the problems mentioned by ChunkyCushion earlier, I sure couldn't see them in person, and after watching the GOG videos around 20 times and then seeing that one in person, neither I nor my GF could tell the difference between the cuts at all(and this is after looking at TONS of cushions from other jewelers in person which were blown away by this one). So maybe there is a big difference in light return, but for us the bigger size and our eyes not being good enough to tell the difference won out.

CCB, not sure if you are still reading after all this but HIP HIP Hooray! Glad you found something that looks great, your GF loves, you spent less $$. Very much the route I took and am ECSTATIC about it. Allows for more $$ for the setting, wedding honeymoon whatever. Congrats and enjoy it every day! As it is, you probably found a much nicer stone than if you walked into any of the jewelers on your block (unless you live in NY) and that's the way I looked at it. The ERD stone looks great. Happy happy day!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/16/2010 11:56:04 PM
Author: CharmyPoo

Date: 5/16/2010 11:29:57 PM

Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 5/16/2010 11:44:27 AM

Author: CharmyPoo

So Bill .. what do you say about sharing your ASETs for educational purposes?

oh my charmy, that''s a little personal now, doncha think?

Not in my opinion - it wasn''t meant to be an attack in any shape or form. Many of us share photos of our diamonds, aset, idealscope and other specs here - some even share the price they paid. I guess I don''t see this as anything different - many of us will be interested in seeing it. I have no doubt that Bill has a gorgeous diamond. We have seen a photo of it and even know the specs from his other thread. I find this to be helpful for other buyers looking for a cushion diamond. If we are able to identify sources that can potentially produce cushions that rival an AVC .. it opens a lot more doors for the consumers and I will be very happy to broaden my recommendations.


Bill - if I am crossing the line .. I apologize. I just didn''t see a problem with sharing ASET. I will be very happy to share my ASET again. My AVC is more shallow than the other AVC and others might want to see what happens when an AVC is more shallow and the need for a thinner girdle. I would also be happy to share an ASET of my stone from Mark but unfortunately the stone was already set when I took it and I wasn''t able to get a proper ASET done.

Sorry - lost this thread... Charmy I was being funny about the aset thing... you know... assets? a man''s assets? It was funny in my head but apparently lost in type lol

 

[Cehrabehra]

CCL - I was not referring to fire but whatever. You are so argumentative it makes it difficult to enjoy the cushion threads these days. But you''re right about avoiding buyers remorse and information and in person visuals would help with that.

I no longer have any sort of buyers remorse. When I first saw the avc I was blown away that jon had manifested ideas that we used to kick around years ago - but the avc doesn''t manifest them in a way that I had originally envisioned so after the initial wow wore off I still felt a bit like I was back at the drawing board. IF I could get my stone to be what I envisioned I would probably do it, but the AVC as gorgeous as it is, isn''t that. I have not played with an AVC in person, but I have played with well cut diamonds of other shapes and there is a quality that I enjoy that I can not quantify and here in china can''t even begin to capture. But in a nutshell, the light that leaks out the sides creates a glow in the stone that you can see from the side (I''m not talking a 30* tilt) and brings colors from the sides and brings it to the top. I fully understand that this is not preferred by most and in my stone''s current setting all it pulls from the sides is grey metal and that''s unattractive and boring and I have no glow. All serious flaws for the setting it is in. But before it was set I was in love with it and I''ve gone back over my pictures and I still love it. I took it to tiffanys and all sorts of stores and it competed very well to my eyes. I don''t need it to be conventional or a racecar, nor do I think everyone needs that or wants that. I do want to reset it in something that allows it to glow the way it did in the little temp holder thingy.

I am uninterested in debating this with you further so if you think I''m full of crap I can just accept that and we can move on. The only diamonds I have to play with are poorly cut 1/4 carat rounds in my ears. That''s not going to give me much to work with.

 

[Cehrabehra]

congrats CCB! It''s all about the falling in love

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 5/21/2010 11:32:58 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Sorry - lost this thread... Charmy I was being funny about the aset thing... you know... assets? a man''s assets? It was funny in my head but apparently lost in type lol

Hehehhe... now I get it. It reminds me of the .. when is it too big thread

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/21/2010 10:47:26 AM
Author: missydebby
You know, you guys were definitely choosing between 2 absolute winners. I was in the same position and it was so hard, that I ended up getting a non AVC antique chunky cushion for my ring and a couple of AVC''s for earrings. I''m almost of the opinion that they should just be two different category of cut, just like Old Mine Cuts are the earliest version of Round Brilliant. (loose analogy)


Congrats on your purchase and I''m so glad you found a diamond she loves, for a great price, from a wonderful vendor. Winner x 3

Now just make sure to post pictures of the ring and hand shots so we can all drool in unison...

They definitely should both fall under cushion. Jon has a niche in that cushion market no doubt... but there are other cuts of cushion that are lovely as well. There''s this one cut, cannot recall the pattern off hand, that I like a lot. it''s modern and still chunky. I think CCL''s wife picked that type but I cannot recall... bargainhunter has one. Anyway - there''s no need to break up the cushion family and there''s no reason why different cuts cannot cohabitate. Just like some people don''t like hearts and arrows, not everyone is going to like even a hotly well performing stone like the avc. I still believe it is amazing and I''m thrilled he did this and I hope he continues to pursue some other ideas as well

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/21/2010 11:52:20 AM
Author: CharmyPoo

Date: 5/21/2010 11:32:58 AM

Author: Cehrabehra


Sorry - lost this thread... Charmy I was being funny about the aset thing... you know... assets? a man''s assets? It was funny in my head but apparently lost in type lol

Hehehhe... now I get it. It reminds me of the .. when is it too big thread

 

[ccb0x45]

I don't mind sharing the ASET if it helps with educational purposes.

I have attached it, have at it.

Thanks for all the help/support... Without it I probably would have gone to the mall, spent 5k more on something uglier and smaller. Now my GF got the exact diamond she liked however now its up to me to get this ring replicated somehow, so a whole new challenge... ugh!

 

[Cehrabehra]

it''s really beautiful - she''s a heck of a lucky girl

btw I love settings with several graduated side stones... I think they do a great job of popping the main stone

 

[pixley]

Beautiful stone and happy beginning! You may want to call Single Stone in LA - they have done some incredible antique repro settings for many happy PSrs: http://www.singlestone.com/

 

[ccb0x45]

Thanks for the tip on the settings, anymore would be appreciated as well!

Hopefully the ASET looks reasonable, like I said its very hard for me to actually read the ASET an feel like I know what I am talking about.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 5/21/2010 8:34:25 AM
Author: ccb0x45
Since this thread got pretty long and hectic I might as well let people know my final decision.

It came down to my GF deciding, she saw the ERD cushion in person and absolutely fell in love with it and it was over. So we went with that(which I am happy about because it was cheaper for me

Also Mark sent me the ASSET right after I formally requested it, although it looks different from the GOG ones(on a black background for one).

Thanks to mark for finding something in the size she wanted while saving me some money, and my gf REALLY appreciated getting to see it in person as well.

If the stone really has all the problems mentioned by ChunkyCushion earlier, I sure couldn''t see them in person, and after watching the GOG videos around 20 times and then seeing that one in person, neither I nor my GF could tell the difference between the cuts at all(and this is after looking at TONS of cushions from other jewelers in person which were blown away by this one). So maybe there is a big difference in light return, but for us the bigger size and our eyes not being good enough to tell the difference won out.

I am glad you made your choice and got to just use your eyes to compare! How lucky. I would love to see both types of diamonds in person.

As a more general note, the highlighted are of course important psychological reasons why technical aspects of light return can go out the window. We are motivated perceivers of course. I personally am a cut nut for rounds and love color less stones, but if presented with a choice between a smaller AGS0 G color and a larger GIA EX that was slighly steep deep and J color, if I was picking just with my eyes, I suspect I know which of the two I would pick!

I know with my head that there *are * perceptible differences in optical performance, given two stones with identical specs and different cut quality I can easily discern the difference. But it all goes out the window when I see $$ in my pocket and more spread. Spread and $$ win out over incremental differences in optics sometimes.... most of the time?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 5/21/2010 10:02:40 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 5/21/2010 8:34:25 AM
Author: ccb0x45
Since this thread got pretty long and hectic I might as well let people know my final decision.

It came down to my GF deciding, she saw the ERD cushion in person and absolutely fell in love with it and it was over. So we went with that(which I am happy about because it was cheaper for me

Also Mark sent me the ASSET right after I formally requested it, although it looks different from the GOG ones(on a black background for one).

Thanks to mark for finding something in the size she wanted while saving me some money, and my gf REALLY appreciated getting to see it in person as well.

If the stone really has all the problems mentioned by ChunkyCushion earlier, I sure couldn''t see them in person, and after watching the GOG videos around 20 times and then seeing that one in person, neither I nor my GF could tell the difference between the cuts at all(and this is after looking at TONS of cushions from other jewelers in person which were blown away by this one). So maybe there is a big difference in light return, but for us the bigger size and our eyes not being good enough to tell the difference won out.

CCB,

Congratulations on your purchase, I look forward to seeing the finished ring in a show me the bling thread.
I would have preferred your GF had seen a comparison of both candidates in person before making a choice, but she sounds very happy and that is ultimately what is most important.


Good-Luck,
CCL

As, I did not notice that... in person versus on video is of course another big psychological influence, like size or money. And of course, in person veruss a video is also a technical difference in viewing conditions, and a large one to boot.

Mark is a smart cookie in a lot of ways

"Let me send it to you to see rather than sending you this ASET..."

 

[Dreamer_D]

What sort of budget are you considering for the setting? Single stone is a great option but on the pricier side. I think that Brian Gavin Diamonds could do something like that for you, engraving and all. I also like Greek Lake Jewelry Works for this style www.gljw.com

 

[ccb0x45]

Cool, I will look at those options...
as for price I would *like* to keep it under 3k if possible, but im willing to spend more if thats what it takes to get it right.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 5/21/2010 2:08:23 PM
Author: ccb0x45
Cool, I will look at those options...
as for price I would *like* to keep it under 3k if possible, but im willing to spend more if thats what it takes to get it right.

That is a generoud budget for the style you like, I think you can easily consider BGD, single stone, and Green Lakes. Green Lakes will actually hand make your ring and they do awesome antique styles and have great reviews here so they would be near the top of my list.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I think Singlestone is probably more expensive than the other two.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/21/2010 12:09:37 PM
Author: ccb0x45
Thanks for the tip on the settings, anymore would be appreciated as well!



Hopefully the ASET looks reasonable, like I said its very hard for me to actually read the ASET an feel like I know what I am talking about.

Yes, the aset is reasonable. It is going to have amazing scintillation. If the aset was all red it would look like a flashlight. The 12,3,6,9 mains on an AVC are more red but there is a bit more leakage in the corners (that he attempted to tweak into more genuine contrast but it wasn''t popular as it made the 4 large mains of the 8 smaller). You have a few points of strong leakage around the crown and some moderate leakage under the table, but you also have a lot of red in your crown and most of what isn''t red is green and I think you''re going to be happy with that - it has a different look than the avc for better and for worse. Just my thoughts Whatever you fear is lost in the performance of those 4 mains under the table will be made up for in style and pattern - in my opinion

 

[CharmyPoo]

Once you have made the decision and purchased the diamond, don''t over analyze it .. it will just give yourself headaches and doubts that are needed.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 5/21/2010 9:59:50 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
Once you have made the decision and purchased the diamond, don''t over analyze it .. it will just give yourself headaches and doubts that are needed.

Typo - meant to say NOT NEEDED.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 5/21/2010 11:47:04 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
CCL - I was not referring to fire but whatever. You are so argumentative it makes it difficult to enjoy the cushion threads these days.

I have already recognized your experience and years of helpful pioneering posts about cushions in my first post on here but this is 2010 and we need to move beyond a lot of the dated information from the past. The intention of my posts is to further education and correction misconceptions and not to needlessly argue with a long time poster.

I don''t know how with a white light input source you get colored light from a colorless diamond without dispersion. Unless you are talking about shining colored light at a diamond or fluorescence, please explain how you get those pastel colors without them being a product of dispersion.

I no longer have any sort of buyers remorse. When I first saw the avc I was blown away that jon had manifested ideas that we used to kick around years ago - but the avc doesn''t manifest them in a way that I had originally envisioned so after the initial wow wore off I still felt a bit like I was back at the drawing board. IF I could get my stone to be what I envisioned I would probably do it, but the AVC as gorgeous as it is, isn''t that.

I have not played with an AVC in person, but I have played with well cut diamonds of other shapes and there is a quality that I enjoy that I can not quantify and here in china can''t even begin to capture. But in a nutshell, the light that leaks out the sides creates a glow in the stone that you can see from the side (I''m not talking a 30* tilt) and brings colors from the sides and brings it to the top.

You have made many comments about AVCs and yet you have not viewed one in person. I am sure you are aware that none of what is posted online (as thorough as Rhino is) can substitute for viewing in person. I think you should reconsider making such comments in future because many of them are misleading/uneducated or simply false.


, but I have played with well cut diamonds of other shapes and there is a quality that I enjoy that I can not quantify and here in china can''t even begin to capture. But in a nutshell, the light that leaks out the sides creates a glow in the stone that you can see from the side (I''m not talking a 30* tilt) and brings colors from the sides and brings it to the top.

If that is colored light, you are still talking about dispersion, just you are viewing your diamond from the side rather than the crown (which is an unusual viewing angle to most people). Even so you cannot correlate the observations you have made in your stone "glowing fom the side" to the faceup crown view ASET image, that is not how the ASET is interpreted nor is it that simple.

I fully understand that this is not preferred by most and in my stone''s current setting all it pulls from the sides is grey metal and that''s unattractive and boring and I have no glow.

The problems with your diamond are that there are too many areas which do not return light to the viewer or only return low angle light to the viewer. In the setting the lowest angles are blocked.

All serious flaws for the setting it is in. But before it was set I was in love with it and I''ve gone back over my pictures and I still love it. I took it to tiffanys and all sorts of stores and it competed very well to my eyes. I don''t need it to be conventional or a racecar, nor do I think everyone needs that or wants that. I do want to reset it in something that allows it to glow the way it did in the little temp holder thingy.

I am uninterested in debating this with you further so if you think I''m full of crap I can just accept that and we can move on. The only diamonds I have to play with are poorly cut 1/4 carat rounds in my ears. That''s not going to give me much to work with.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 5/21/2010 11:55:24 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 5/21/2010 10:47:26 AM
Author: missydebby
You know, you guys were definitely choosing between 2 absolute winners. I was in the same position and it was so hard, that I ended up getting a non AVC antique chunky cushion for my ring and a couple of AVC's for earrings. I'm almost of the opinion that they should just be two different category of cut, just like Old Mine Cuts are the earliest version of Round Brilliant. (loose analogy)


Congrats on your purchase and I'm so glad you found a diamond she loves, for a great price, from a wonderful vendor. Winner x 3

Now just make sure to post pictures of the ring and hand shots so we can all drool in unison...

They definitely should both fall under cushion. Jon has a niche in that cushion market no doubt... but there are other cuts of cushion that are lovely as well. There's this one cut, cannot recall the pattern off hand, that I like a lot. it's modern and still chunky. I think CCL's wife picked that type but I cannot recall... bargainhunter has one. Anyway - there's no need to break up the cushion family and there's no reason why different cuts cannot cohabitate. Just like some people don't like hearts and arrows, not everyone is going to like even a hotly well performing stone like the avc. I still believe it is amazing and I'm thrilled he did this and I hope he continues to pursue some other ideas as well

I agree and my article which should be published on Pricescope shortly will explain the GIA and AGS naming conventions in detail.

 

[vbnet]

O M G

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 5/21/2010 9:07:43 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 5/21/2010 12:09:37 PM
Author: ccb0x45
Thanks for the tip on the settings, anymore would be appreciated as well!



Hopefully the ASET looks reasonable, like I said its very hard for me to actually read the ASET an feel like I know what I am talking about.

Yes, the aset is reasonable. It is going to have amazing scintillation.

The AGS does NOT use ASET maps to display the property of scintillation they use scintillation maps. Their research also indiciates that often the areas of strongest scintillation are those that are likely best at returning light to the viewer (ASET RED).

You should not confuse areas of contrast (leakage or obstruction) or potentially smaller virtual facets as seen in an ASETand draw the conclusion that this stone will necessarily having more scintillation events. That is just theoretically and practically wrong on many levels.


If the aset was all red it would look like a flashlight. The 12,3,6,9 mains on an AVC are more red but there is a bit more leakage in the corners (that he attempted to tweak into more genuine contrast but it wasn't popular as it made the 4 large mains of the 8 smaller).

Wrong! The ASET cannot tell you if facets are out of phase from one another. That is probably the worst statement you have made in this thread.
In fact the 1,3,5,7 pavillion mains in an AVC ARE out of phase with the 3,6,9,12 mains and regardless of whether the entire area under the table is completely RED they definitely will not all be in one phase or look like a flashlight.

You have a few points of strong leakage around the crown and some moderate leakage under the table, but you also have a lot of red in your crown and most of what isn't red is green and I think you're going to be happy with that - it has a different look than the avc for better and for worse. Just my thoughts Whatever you fear is lost in the performance of those 4 mains under the table will be made up for in style and pattern - in my opinion

Cehrah,

The ASET image is a tool than can be used to measure the diamond properties of brightness and contrast and to a limited extent virtual facet size. It is quite a stretch to apply other properties like scintillation or imply that facets that gather light from the same angular range are always in phase with one another. The figure below highlights this, the colored areas where scintillation is occuring as a light source is moved with respect to the round brilliant diamond occur most frequently in areas that correspond to the most intense light return to the viewer(ASET red).

 

[missydebby]

Date: 5/22/2010 1:14:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 5/21/2010 11:55:24 AM

Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 5/21/2010 10:47:26 AM

Author: missydebby

You know, you guys were definitely choosing between 2 absolute winners. I was in the same position and it was so hard, that I ended up getting a non AVC antique chunky cushion for my ring and a couple of AVC''s for earrings. I''m almost of the opinion that they should just be two different category of cut, just like Old Mine Cuts are the earliest version of Round Brilliant. (loose analogy)



Congrats on your purchase and I''m so glad you found a diamond she loves, for a great price, from a wonderful vendor. Winner x 3

Now just make sure to post pictures of the ring and hand shots so we can all drool in unison...

They definitely should both fall under cushion. Jon has a niche in that cushion market no doubt... but there are other cuts of cushion that are lovely as well. There''s this one cut, cannot recall the pattern off hand, that I like a lot. it''s modern and still chunky. I think CCL''s wife picked that type but I cannot recall... bargainhunter has one. Anyway - there''s no need to break up the cushion family and there''s no reason why different cuts cannot cohabitate. Just like some people don''t like hearts and arrows, not everyone is going to like even a hotly well performing stone like the avc. I still believe it is amazing and I''m thrilled he did this and I hope he continues to pursue some other ideas as well

I agree and my article which should be published on Pricescope shortly will explain the GIA and AGS naming conventions in detail.

I hears ya, CCL. Your technical expertise is outstanding and a great resource that you kindly share. Your passion is well earned.

But you know what it''s like to me?

It''s like someone asking me what I think about rock music. I answer "what type of rock? There''s old greats like the Beatles, there''s some guys who updated that sound in the 90''s called Oasis, there''s soft rock like Crosby, Steels, Nash and Young, and there''s some more harder modern stuff like Nirvana." Then they ask me who''s the best. You could answer that based on a lot of different criteria, some very technical the way a music critic might. But it also might be wise to first have them check out a sample of each from You Tube, to get a sense of what appeals to their individual taste.

I know what you''re thinking... stupid analogy cause there''s no Beatles Asets!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 5/22/2010 3:03:15 PM
Author: missydebby

Date: 5/22/2010 1:14:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 5/21/2010 11:55:24 AM

Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 5/21/2010 10:47:26 AM

Author: missydebby

You know, you guys were definitely choosing between 2 absolute winners. I was in the same position and it was so hard, that I ended up getting a non AVC antique chunky cushion for my ring and a couple of AVC's for earrings. I'm almost of the opinion that they should just be two different category of cut, just like Old Mine Cuts are the earliest version of Round Brilliant. (loose analogy)



Congrats on your purchase and I'm so glad you found a diamond she loves, for a great price, from a wonderful vendor. Winner x 3

Now just make sure to post pictures of the ring and hand shots so we can all drool in unison...

They definitely should both fall under cushion. Jon has a niche in that cushion market no doubt... but there are other cuts of cushion that are lovely as well. There's this one cut, cannot recall the pattern off hand, that I like a lot. it's modern and still chunky. I think CCL's wife picked that type but I cannot recall... bargainhunter has one. Anyway - there's no need to break up the cushion family and there's no reason why different cuts cannot cohabitate. Just like some people don't like hearts and arrows, not everyone is going to like even a hotly well performing stone like the avc. I still believe it is amazing and I'm thrilled he did this and I hope he continues to pursue some other ideas as well

I agree and my article which should be published on Pricescope shortly will explain the GIA and AGS naming conventions in detail.

I hears ya, CCL. Your technical expertise is outstanding and a great resource that you kindly share. Your passion is well earned.

But you know what it's like to me?

It's like someone asking me what I think about rock music. I answer 'what type of rock? There's old greats like the Beatles, there's some guys who updated that sound in the 90's called Oasis, there's soft rock like Crosby, Steels, Nash and Young, and there's some more harder modern stuff like Nirvana.' Then they ask me who's the best. You could answer that based on a lot of different criteria, some very technical the way a music critic might. But it also might be wise to first have them check out a sample of each from You Tube, to get a sense of what appeals to their individual taste.

I know what you're thinking... stupid analogy cause there's no Beatles Asets!

MissyDebby,

When someone says that a vintage 8 main has equivalent light performance (not the subjective equivalent beauty) to an AVC, or that a branded stone with very strict strict standards is the same as a generic I shake my head

.

Those who make such comments:

a) have never seen an AVC

or

b) have lmited understanding of the tools and metrics developed by the AGS (like ASET or forward and reverse ray tracing) or how a diamond's appearance changes in various lighting conditions

or

c) are really trying to validate thier own purchase decisions and convince themself they made the best decision by influencing others to follow the same path.

2) There are several PS vendors who sell "Super Ideal" branded round diamonds and several that sell branded Princess cuts. From personal experience I know this is often an uphill battle for them to justify the premium that must be charged for such stones over the generic ones which can be cut more cheaply and with higher yield. The PS community is one of the few places where there are enough experienced posters who have seen real life comparisons and understand the real visual differences that justify the premium.

So when someone offers their uneducated opinion and hasn't made this comparison themself or tries to blur the line in terms of light performance between a branded cushion like AVC and generic I take exception to this and correct them.

Light performance is one factor (the most important in my opinion) to judging a diamond's beauty, it is not the only one. It really doesn't matter if you line up 100 people who have bought from Bluenile, Leon or ERD and they all give their opinion in a thread about why their cushion's perform just as well (self validation), it still doesn't change the fact that the objective reflector technology is telling us quite another story and this does translate to real world appearance differences.

I have long argued making an informed decision should often involve comparing branded and unbranded diamonds in person or at least under multiple lighting conditions in video, the real question should be is the probable premium appropriate(PPA) for all consumers?

(In this thread it clearly wasn't but I have to wonder if the debate over the light performance differences influenced the OP's decision?)

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 5/23/2010 10:24:33 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 5/22/2010 3:03:15 PM
Author: missydebby

Date: 5/22/2010 1:14:32 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 5/21/2010 11:55:24 AM

Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 5/21/2010 10:47:26 AM

Author: missydebby

You know, you guys were definitely choosing between 2 absolute winners. I was in the same position and it was so hard, that I ended up getting a non AVC antique chunky cushion for my ring and a couple of AVC''s for earrings. I''m almost of the opinion that they should just be two different category of cut, just like Old Mine Cuts are the earliest version of Round Brilliant. (loose analogy)



Congrats on your purchase and I''m so glad you found a diamond she loves, for a great price, from a wonderful vendor. Winner x 3

Now just make sure to post pictures of the ring and hand shots so we can all drool in unison...

They definitely should both fall under cushion. Jon has a niche in that cushion market no doubt... but there are other cuts of cushion that are lovely as well. There''s this one cut, cannot recall the pattern off hand, that I like a lot. it''s modern and still chunky. I think CCL''s wife picked that type but I cannot recall... bargainhunter has one. Anyway - there''s no need to break up the cushion family and there''s no reason why different cuts cannot cohabitate. Just like some people don''t like hearts and arrows, not everyone is going to like even a hotly well performing stone like the avc. I still believe it is amazing and I''m thrilled he did this and I hope he continues to pursue some other ideas as well

I agree and my article which should be published on Pricescope shortly will explain the GIA and AGS naming conventions in detail.

I hears ya, CCL. Your technical expertise is outstanding and a great resource that you kindly share. Your passion is well earned.

But you know what it''s like to me?

It''s like someone asking me what I think about rock music. I answer ''what type of rock? There''s old greats like the Beatles, there''s some guys who updated that sound in the 90''s called Oasis, there''s soft rock like Crosby, Steels, Nash and Young, and there''s some more harder modern stuff like Nirvana.'' Then they ask me who''s the best. You could answer that based on a lot of different criteria, some very technical the way a music critic might. But it also might be wise to first have them check out a sample of each from You Tube, to get a sense of what appeals to their individual taste.

I know what you''re thinking... stupid analogy cause there''s no Beatles Asets!

MissyDebby,

When someone says that a vintage 8 main has equivalent light performance (not the subjective equivalent beauty) to an AVC, or that a branded stone with very strict strict standards is the same as a generic I shake my head

.

Those who make such comments:

a) have never seen an AVC

or

b) have lmited understanding of the tools and metrics developed by the AGS (like ASET or forward and reverse ray tracing) or how a diamond''s appearance changes in various lighting conditions

or

c) are really trying to validate thier own purchase decisions and convince themself they made the best decision by influencing others to follow the same path.

2) There are several PS vendors who sell ''Super Ideal'' branded round diamonds and several that sell branded Princess cuts. From personal experience I know this is often an uphill battle for them to justify the premium that must be charged for such stones over the generic ones which can be cut more cheaply and with higher yield. The PS community is one of the few places where there are enough experienced posters who have seen real life comparisons and understand the real visual differences that justify the premium.

So when someone offers their uneducated opinion and hasn''t made this comparison themself or tries to blur the line betwen in terms of light performance between a branded cushion like AVC and generic I take exception to this and correct them.

Light performance is one factor (the most important in my opinion) to judging a diamond''s beauty, it is not the only one. It really doesn''t matter if you line up 100 people who have bought from Bluenile, Leon or ERD and they all give their opinion in a thread about why their cushion''s perform just as well (self validation), it still doesn''t change the fact that the objective reflector technology is telling us quite another story and this does translate to real world appearance differences.

I have long argued making an informed decision should often involves comparing branded and unbranded diamonds in person or at least under multiple lighting conditions in video, the real question should be is the probable premium appropriate(PPA) for all consumers?

(In this thread it clearly wasn''t but I have to wonder if the debate over the light performance differences influenced the OP''s decision?)

I''m one of those people that owns both in rounds. Super ideals, and a few GIA excellent. There comes a point where the visual difference becomes blurred, and the human eye can''t really detect what the tools are saying is the "better" diamond. I know this from my experience with rounds, so can''t always justify the difference in price. Is it possible that the same applies to cushions? Even though the ASET image may be better, the observer may not see it in person. It could just be a different flavor so to speak.