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Can we believe and trust our government?

siamese3

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I just can't stop thinking about truth and facts, and how little they seem to mean to the current administration. As I watch Russia and Assad make statements regarding the gassing in Syria that are labeled by our government as untrue (fake news?) how are we supposed to trust our president and his administration to tell us the truth, when he has show such blatant disregard for getting facts straight? The labor dept. and the commerce dept. released numbers this morning and the first thing that ran through my head is how can I trust that these are real? It's all very troubling to me. I just don't get how it is okay. It's not about a learning curve. I get so depressed thinking about how low our standards have become. Even though people seem to be somewhat relieved that DJT is becoming more "centrist" in some of his policies, he obviously has horrible judgement, evidenced by the people he chose to surround himself with throughout his campaign and in as his administration began.

p.s. I was not saying in the above that I believe Russia or Assad.
 

Tekate

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I just can't stop thinking about truth and facts, and how little they seem to mean to the current administration. As I watch Russia and Assad make statements regarding the gassing in Syria that are labeled by our government as untrue (fake news?) how are we supposed to trust our president and his administration to tell us the truth, when he has show such blatant disregard for getting facts straight? The labor dept. and the commerce dept. released numbers this morning and the first thing that ran through my head is how can I trust that these are real? It's all very troubling to me. I just don't get how it is okay. It's not about a learning curve. I get so depressed thinking about how low our standards have become. Even though people seem to be somewhat relieved that DJT is becoming more "centrist" in some of his policies, he obviously has horrible judgement, evidenced by the people he chose to surround himself with throughout his campaign and in as his administration began.

p.s. I was not saying in the above that I believe Russia or Assad.


Oh, I agree with all you say. What we are 100 days into this administration and we drop bombs at the drop of a hat. This guy isn't honest and never has been.. I heard Spicer say that some of the ideas the Prezi Cheeto is espousing are views he's had for 30 - 40 years! WHAAAT.. that isn't what he campaigned on... he's a liar. and a cheater (and I don't mean wives which he did too but that doesn't seem to count today)... If he got rid of Bannon that would be a good start to cleaning house. I doubt he will tho. Sad time to be an American that believes in peace through prosperity and peace above all. :(

Peace to you.
 

redwood66

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No unfortunately we can't trust most of them (before and now) to be good stewards of all the $$$$ we send them.
 

missy

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Not at all.
 

kenny

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Frankly I keep a heathy skepticism, regardless of who's in office.
At least Cheeto is honest about his lying.

The rich are granted political power by collusion with the 1%.
We pawns have always been controlled by the 1% saying/doing whatever keeps them in power.

I believe in democracy.
We just don't have it.
 

ruby59

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And you believe Obama always spoke the truth.

Problem with Obama that while at the time everyone thought he was perfect, all the ways he mismanaged finally came out to haunt the American people.
 

monarch64

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And you believe Obama always spoke the truth.

Problem with Obama that while at the time everyone thought he was perfect, all the ways he mismanaged finally came out to haunt the American people.

You might want to rephrase that sweeping generalization. I never thought he was perfect and did not vote for him either election. He either lied or misspoke about "free" healthcare for everyone. He is a great orator and I do believe him to be a good person, but he was also another slick politician and you can't trust any of them no matter the party. Wait, scratch that. You can trust Pence to be a horrible person and same with Trump.
 

siamese3

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And you believe Obama always spoke the truth.

Problem with Obama that while at the time everyone thought he was perfect, all the ways he mismanaged finally came out to haunt the American people.
Who are you addressing Ruby? I don't believe that I have ever said that Obama was perfect or that he always "spoke the truth". I don't believe that I have ever agreed with any politician 100%. I just think that DJT and his administration not "being straight" (and I am being kind here) with the American public has been taken to a new level. I specifically do not care for how unimportant knowledge, facts and preparation are with Trump. I am always wondering what your SPECIFIC examples of how Obama mismanaged the country are.
 

siamese3

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Now the White House has announced it won't release records of it's visitor's. I thought that Trump said that he was going to have the most transparent presidency ever!
 

ruby59

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[QUOTE="monarch64, post: 4151832, member: 15196"]You might want to rephrase that sweeping generalization. I never thought he was perfect and did not vote for him either election. He either lied or misspoke about "free" healthcare for everyone. He is a great orator and I do believe him to be a good person, but he was also another slick politician and you can't trust any of them no matter the party. Wait, scratch that. You can trust Pence to be a horrible person and same with Trump.[/QUOTE]

Are you prepared to rephrase yours about Trump?

And you do realize I am speaking to everyone on this thread, not particularly at you. From our conversations I know you are more moderate than the rest.

I was right with you up until your last sentence. You cannot fully trust any one of the them. But none of whom you mentioned is a "horrible" person just because you do not share their beliefs and ideology.
 

ruby59

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Who are you addressing Ruby? I don't believe that I have ever said that Obama was perfect or that he always "spoke the truth". I don't believe that I have ever agreed with any politician 100%. I just think that DJT and his administration not "being straight" (and I am being kind here) with the American public has been taken to a new level. I specifically do not care for how unimportant knowledge, facts and preparation are with Trump. I am always wondering what your SPECIFIC examples of how Obama mismanaged the country are.

I just can't stop thinking about truth and facts, and how little they seem to mean to the current administration.

I am addressing the above statement by the OP.
 

ruby59

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Who are you addressing Ruby? I don't believe that I have ever said that Obama was perfect or that he always "spoke the truth". I don't believe that I have ever agreed with any politician 100%. I just think that DJT and his administration not "being straight" (and I am being kind here) with the American public has been taken to a new level. I specifically do not care for how unimportant knowledge, facts and preparation are with Trump. I am always wondering what your SPECIFIC examples of how Obama mismanaged the country are.

Healthcare. He lied about those who were happy with their healthcare would be left alone.

Relations with Israel, Russia, China and how weak he was perceived by his own generals. And how he stabbed Israel in the back by sticking his nose in their elections. And I read about how embarrassing his encounter was when he went to China. Look at how that has changed with Trump.

Believing all chemical weapons were destroyed in Syria. Drawing red lines and then backing off.

Not standing behind the police to do their jobs in a reasonable manner.

And the latest with that drug lord who was finally captured in Mexico. Apparently Obama got into an embarrassing deal there.

The economy, jobs.

Changing the rules mere weeks before his Presidency was set to end to change how classified information was shared. All you think Trump is in trouble. Try Rice and Obama if he knew about it.

His total indecisiveness and weakness.
 

siamese3

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I just can't stop thinking about truth and facts, and how little they seem to mean to the current administration.

I am addressing the above statement by the OP.
Why do you think that I think Obama ALWAYS spoke the truth? Thanks for listing your complaints with Obama and his presidency.
 

ruby59

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Did you ever pose the same question about Obama's administration?
 

siamese3

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Did you ever pose the same question about Obama's administration?
Actually, to be fair, I have never really been that engaged in politics, as I feel that inherently, politics is, just by nature, not all the honest. I am more engaged now because I while watching the election (which I always do) I became fascinated by what was happening. Fascinated and horrified. For many reasons. I am by nature, a very realistic person. No one is honest all of the time, all of us make mistakes but I do expect the person who is elected president of the USA will embody certain qualities. Leadership qualities, like not calling people names, not bullying people, not out & out constantly distorting the facts, taking responsibility, giving others credit, treating human beings with respect, apologizing when necessary, being the bigger person, and I do not believe the DJT has exhibited any of the qualities.
 

ruby59

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but I do expect the person who is elected president of the USA will embody certain qualities. Leadership qualities, like not calling people names, not bullying people, not out & out constantly distorting the facts, taking responsibility, giving others credit, treating human beings with respect, apologizing when necessary, being the bigger person, and I do not believe the DJT has exhibited any of the qualities.

________________________________________________________________________


Not calling people names is a two way street. Yes he did it as a citizen but the only ones I see who continue to doi t here ad nauseam is the same group of whining posters.

Giving others credit, he praises his military all the time and he stands behind his staff giving them the benefit of the doubt until they lose his trust.

I agree he does embellish a bit with the facts.

As far as apologizing and being the bigger person - whom do you feel he deserves to give an apology to?
 

siamese3

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What frustrates me about you Ruby, is that it seems like you like to label liberal posters as "whiners" but I assume that you think you are not "whining"? I find your turn of phrase regarding "his" military interesting, as he says that too, and the military is "our" military. Yes, he is the commander in chief, but of "our" military and he works for the American people. When he loses faith in his staff, after it seems he needs a scapegoat for failure, he then says, he barely knows them. I think he should have apologized for insulting the Kahns. I think he should have apologized for the things he said about Ted Cruz's wife and father, for accusing Obama of a federal crime without providing any proof, etc. etc...... I have to go fry my meatballs now.
 

monarch64

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[QUOTE="monarch64, post: 4151832, member: 15196"]You might want to rephrase that sweeping generalization. I never thought he was perfect and did not vote for him either election. He either lied or misspoke about "free" healthcare for everyone. He is a great orator and I do believe him to be a good person, but he was also another slick politician and you can't trust any of them no matter the party. Wait, scratch that. You can trust Pence to be a horrible person and same with Trump.

Are you prepared to rephrase yours about Trump?

And you do realize I am speaking to everyone on this thread, not particularly at you. From our conversations I know you are more moderate than the rest.

I was right with you up until your last sentence. You cannot fully trust any one of the them. But none of whom you mentioned is a "horrible" person just because you do not share their beliefs and ideology.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I will rephrase. How is this: You can trust Pence to be anti-women's rights and anti-human rights, and same with Trump. (In my book, that makes them both horrible people. I stand by my opinion.) If their beliefs and ideologies were based on facts and actually intended for the good of people and not meant to intentionally oppress, maybe I could get behind them. But they aren't and I can't. Peace.
 

lovedogs

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No we can't, because we have a dellusional narcissist in office who has no real "opinions " or "values", just flip flops based on what he sees on TV, how he feels, and which direction the wind blows. Oh, and whatever will make him the most $$. I have never mistrusted presidents in the past (and honestly have never been too engaged in politics because I realized nothing is perfect but trusted that the system was working well enough and that checks and balances would prevail against idiocy). But that has all changed thanks to our sexual assaulter in Chief.
 

siamese3

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No we can't, because we have a dellusional narcissist in office who has no real "opinions " or "values", just flip flops based on what he sees on TV, how he feels, and which direction the wind blows. Oh, and whatever will make him the most $$. I have never mistrusted presidents in the past (and honestly have never been too engaged in politics because I realized nothing is perfect but trusted that the system was working well enough and that checks and balances would prevail against idiocy). But that has all changed thanks to our sexual assaulter in Chief.
At least I try to take comfort in that I have realized that living in democratic republic takes work and involvement. I guess it was easy for me to take for granted that I could just go about my life and trust that whoever we elected to office would be, for the most part, doing their jobs. Nope. Guess it is time that the American public reminds the government that they work for us. That they are accountable to us. We need to know who we are voting for, what they stand for, and then constantly hold them accountable. My DH is a huge history buff and we watched this series on the history channels about all of the presidents and we had some not so great ones and weirdly enough, that kind of made me feel better. Kind of. Right now though, worried about tomorrow.
 

monarch64

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Lovedogs, I totally agree. And I also was not previously super involved in politics--on a state and local level, yes, but nationally I was the same--I trusted the system. Now we have this egomaniacal person who is so obviously in love with wealth and the trappings of it, and has promised the working class American people a pipe dream and is now ready to make sure their children get killed in wars. Awesome. Way to go, America.

The Russia issue really does worry me. My company has been around for 30 years and never experienced servers or hosted sites being down...until this past summer. Now we've been hacked 3 times all by Russian bots. What in the actual fvck?! From what I understand it is an industry-wide problem, not just some here, some there. But hey let's focus on bombing the shit out of some Afghanistan tunnels where ISIS might be hiding. We all know how well mole removal methods work. (Hint: they just move somewhere else or deeper underground.) EYEROLL.
 

siamese3

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upload_2017-4-14_19-22-14.png
 

Dancing Fire

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Healthcare. He lied about those who were happy with their healthcare would be left alone.

Relations with Israel, Russia, China and how weak he was perceived by his own generals. And how he stabbed Israel in the back by sticking his nose in their elections. And I read about how embarrassing his encounter was when he went to China. Look at how that has changed with Trump.

Believing all chemical weapons were destroyed in Syria. Drawing red lines and then backing off.

Not standing behind the police to do their jobs in a reasonable manner.

And the latest with that drug lord who was finally captured in Mexico. Apparently Obama got into an embarrassing deal there.

The economy, jobs.

Changing the rules mere weeks before his Presidency was set to end to change how classified information was shared. All you think Trump is in trouble. Try Rice and Obama if he knew about it.

His total indecisiveness and weakness.
And how the Obama admin sugar-coated our relation with Russia ..:roll: at least Trump told us the truth about our shitty relationship with the Russians.
 

Dancing Fire

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monarch64

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That would be against the rules...;-)

LOL that is not true, DF! You might get spanked by other posters but it's not against the rules now that discussion of politics is allowed again. I got spanked over the healthcare debate awhile back, so I get it.

:-o:lol-2::lol:
 

Calliecake

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Hell No!!!! I don't believe anything this President says. He flat out lies about things that can easily be fact checked why would anyone assuming he tells the truth about anything. The man is a liar.
 

ruby59

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What frustrates me about you Ruby, is that it seems like you like to label liberal posters as "whiners" but I assume that you think you are not "whining"? I find your turn of phrase regarding "his" military interesting, as he says that too, and the military is "our" military. Yes, he is the commander in chief, but of "our" military and he works for the American people. When he loses faith in his staff, after it seems he needs a scapegoat for failure, he then says, he barely knows them. I think he should have apologized for insulting the Kahns. I think he should have apologized for the things he said about Ted Cruz's wife and father, for accusing Obama of a federal crime without providing any proof, etc. etc...... I have to go fry my meatballs now.
My mind is on my cat.

Did any of the democrats apologize for what they said about the wife whose husband was killed on duty, that she was being used as a pawn?

Do not know what he said about Ted Cruz or his father.

As for what he said about Obama, the jury is still out on that one.
 
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ruby59

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Are you prepared to rephrase yours about Trump?

And you do realize I am speaking to everyone on this thread, not particularly at you. From our conversations I know you are more moderate than the rest.

I was right with you up until your last sentence. You cannot fully trust any one of the them. But none of whom you mentioned is a "horrible" person just because you do not share their beliefs and ideology.

Yes, I will rephrase. How is this: You can trust Pence to be anti-women's rights and anti-human rights, and same with Trump. (In my book, that makes them both horrible people. I stand by my opinion.) If their beliefs and ideologies were based on facts and actually intended for the good of people and not meant to intentionally oppress, maybe I could get behind them. But they aren't and I can't. Peace.[/QUOTE]

If that were true, then he would have stayed with his base of and ignored Syria to enable Assad to continue to gas his own people.

As far as Pence being anti anything, he is Pro Life and as much entitled to his beliefs as anyone else is.
 

siamese3

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So let's say a democrat didn't apologize, does that make it okay for the Donald not to? I do not label myself a democrat or a republican. I label myself a human being. I stand for human beings. That's really what I am about.
 
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