Can anybody ballpark the cost of this EGL-USA stone?

[renoice]

I have 2 questions and need advice:

I''m looking at buying a EGL-USA cert stone and I can''t figure out what my jeweler is up to. I''ve bought many stones from him over the years based on the "RAP Scales" and paid what I thought was market price because I''ve always trusted his explainations of the scales and the market. After reading this site, I''ve looked at all my certs and proportions on my stones and believe I haven''t bought stones that are worthy of high cash prices.(The wife loves them, so that''s what matters most.) Based on what I''ve read, I should have paid below Rap price because of lower polish & symmetry and table depths.

Just recently, he called me to offer me a "great deal" on a large stone. "Recession pricing forced the sale" and "full inventory with no cash" make it a great deal. Can somebody give me a ballpark approximation on what this stone shoud be worth? I don''t hold anybody to a number or opinion, but since I know nothing about the industry I''m looking for advice from you professionals and experts who frequent this site to point me in the right direction. I also know EGL-USA isn''t spot on with color and are more liberal than other rating agencies. My jeweler told me that if it were GIA certified, it would probably be one grade lower in color (H to I) Having said all that here are the stats from the cert: Weight-4.64, Round Brilliant, Measurements 11.12-10.97x6.22, Depth 56.3%, table 69%, crown 9.2%, pavilion 43.0%, girdle thin to sl thick faceted, cutlet-very small, finish: policy & symmetry both good, clarity VS2, Color Grade H, Flourenscence-none. Any comments on the quality of the stone and what you think would be a ballpark price would be very much appreciated.

Also, I was very surprised that he only offered me half of what I paid him for my wife''s current ring on the trade-in. Can anybody comment on diamond prices over the past 8 years? I purchased the original ring in 2001. (GIA cert- corner cut rectangular modified brilliant, meas-7.34x6.20x4.26, 1.71 ct, depth 68.7, table 73%, girdle-thin to med, cutlet-none, polish VG, symmetry-good, clarity SI1, Color- G. With 2 trilliant side stones, .81 cts total, G- VS2) Any thoughts on what this should fetch on a trade-in with the same guy on a larger stone?

Thanks in advance for any and all comments and advice!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/30/2009 12:26:01 PM
Author:renoice
I have 2 questions and need advice:

I'm looking at buying a EGL-USA cert stone and I can't figure out what my jeweler is up to. I've bought many stones from him over the years based on the 'RAP Scales' and paid what I thought was market price because I've always trusted his explainations of the scales and the market. After reading this site, I've looked at all my certs and proportions on my stones and believe I haven't bought stones that are worthy of high cash prices.(The wife loves them, so that's what matters most.) Based on what I've read, I should have paid below Rap price because of lower polish & symmetry and table depths.

Just recently, he called me to offer me a 'great deal' on a large stone. 'Recession pricing forced the sale' and 'full inventory with no cash' make it a great deal. Can somebody give me a ballpark approximation on what this stone shoud be worth? I don't hold anybody to a number or opinion, but since I know nothing about the industry I'm looking for advice from you professionals and experts who frequent this site to point me in the right direction. I also know EGL-USA isn't spot on with color and are more liberal than other rating agencies. My jeweler told me that if it were GIA certified, it would probably be one grade lower in color (H to I) Having said all that here are the stats from the cert: Weight-4.64, Round Brilliant, Measurements 11.12-10.97x6.22, Depth 56.3%, table 69%, crown 9.2%, pavilion 43.0%, girdle thin to sl thick faceted, cutlet-very small, finish: policy & symmetry both good, clarity VS2, Color Grade H, Flourenscence-none. Any comments on the quality of the stone and what you think would be a ballpark price would be very much appreciated.

Also, I was very surprised that he only offered me half of what I paid him for my wife's current ring on the trade-in. Can anybody comment on diamond prices over the past 8 years? I purchased the original ring in 2001. (GIA cert- corner cut rectangular modified brilliant, meas-7.34x6.20x4.26, 1.71 ct, depth 68.7, table 73%, girdle-thin to med, cutlet-none, polish VG, symmetry-good, clarity SI1, Color- G. With 2 trilliant side stones, .81 cts total, G- VS2) Any thoughts on what this should fetch on a trade-in with the same guy on a larger stone?

Thanks in advance for any and all comments and advice!!

Hi renoice and welcome!

If this is actually a round diamond and the depth and table are accurate I would not consider this diamond as the proportions are dreadful if they are accurate with a 56.3 % depth and 69% table. If you could check these then that would help but if they are accurate then this diamond is badly cut and won't sparkle or look good. It scored rather dismally on the cut advisor and there is a possibility it could display a very undesirable effect called a fish eye, see more below.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fisheye.asp

Personally I wouldn't consider this diamond at any price, but it is up to you of course if your priority is simply for a large diamond, but I would suggest if you prefer to shop with this jeweller, tell him you have been reading up and that you have learned about the importance of cut quality and that you would like him to suggest some well cut round diamonds for you. If size is a high priority and depending on your preference and budget then you don't necessarily have to have a top cut diamond in order to have a pretty diamond, but good proportions and finish are of the utmost importance to give the diamond life. If he can come up with some other diamonds, do the same again and run them by us here and we can help you.

Alternatively if you are open to the idea of buying online, we could suggest some vendors for you that might be able to obtain larger weight diamonds. Concerning the trade in value of your original ring, regrettably it is usual to only recoup 30 - 50% of what you originally paid if you trade it in or resell it - and trying to sell a diamond ring on the secondary market isn't easy and can take time. If you would like some ideas on how to go about selling the ring if you don't want to accept the jeweller's offer, then here is a thread you can use which might help.


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reselling-gems-jewelry-what-can-you-expect.17952/

Also it might be a good idea to get an independant appraisal on the ring and tell the appraiser you would like a suitable figure to guide you for reselling. This should give you a better idea of how much your ring could fetch and depending on the method of sale chosen, how patient you can be etc.

This tool will help you find an appraiser in your area.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 1/30/2009 12:32:21 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 1/30/2009 12:26:01 PM
Author:renoice
I have 2 questions and need advice:

I''m looking at buying a EGL-USA cert stone and I can''t figure out what my jeweler is up to. I''ve bought many stones from him over the years based on the ''RAP Scales'' and paid what I thought was market price because I''ve always trusted his explainations of the scales and the market. After reading this site, I''ve looked at all my certs and proportions on my stones and believe I haven''t bought stones that are worthy of high cash prices.(The wife loves them, so that''s what matters most.) Based on what I''ve read, I should have paid below Rap price because of lower polish & symmetry and table depths.

Just recently, he called me to offer me a ''great deal'' on a large stone. ''Recession pricing forced the sale'' and ''full inventory with no cash'' make it a great deal. Can somebody give me a ballpark approximation on what this stone shoud be worth? I don''t hold anybody to a number or opinion, but since I know nothing about the industry I''m looking for advice from you professionals and experts who frequent this site to point me in the right direction. I also know EGL-USA isn''t spot on with color and are more liberal than other rating agencies. My jeweler told me that if it were GIA certified, it would probably be one grade lower in color (H to I) Having said all that here are the stats from the cert: Weight-4.64, Round Brilliant, Measurements 11.12-10.97x6.22, Depth 56.3%, table 69%, crown 9.2%, pavilion 43.0%, girdle thin to sl thick faceted, cutlet-very small, finish: policy & symmetry both good, clarity VS2, Color Grade H, Flourenscence-none. Any comments on the quality of the stone and what you think would be a ballpark price would be very much appreciated.

Also, I was very surprised that he only offered me half of what I paid him for my wife''s current ring on the trade-in. Can anybody comment on diamond prices over the past 8 years? I purchased the original ring in 2001. (GIA cert- corner cut rectangular modified brilliant, meas-7.34x6.20x4.26, 1.71 ct, depth 68.7, table 73%, girdle-thin to med, cutlet-none, polish VG, symmetry-good, clarity SI1, Color- G. With 2 trilliant side stones, .81 cts total, G- VS2) Any thoughts on what this should fetch on a trade-in with the same guy on a larger stone?

Thanks in advance for any and all comments and advice!!

Hi renoice and welcome!

If this is actually a round diamond and the depth and table are accurate I would not consider this diamond as the proportions are dreadful if they are accurate with a 56.3 % depth and 69% table. If you could check these then that would help but if they are accurate then this diamond is badly cut and won''t sparkle or look good. It scored rather dismally on the cut advisor and there is a possibility it could display a very undesirable effect called a fish eye, see more below.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fisheye.asp

HI:

Aptly stated if those proportions are listed correctly. Love that word, dreadful.

cheers--Sharon

 

[renoice]

Thank you very much for your advice. Based on my limited understanding of the market, you confirmed my suspicion that it''s not a $100,000 stone in a "normal" market....

It was presented to me as a great stone with a fire sale price because of... blah... blah... blah. I''ve always trusted the jeweler but his recommendation to buy this stone has swayed my trust. I think it time to find a new jeweler!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Awwww- what a nice husband!!!

As Sharon and Lorlelei mentioned, the diamond you''ve been offered is in no way worth buying based on the fact it''s cut is way outside the acceptable ranges..
IN terms of gem labs, it''s not that EGL is a few grades off- which they generally are- it''s that dealers won''t base the price on those grades.
It is my feeling that the responsible thing for a dealer to do is to disclose this to potential buyers.
If they did, it would make no sense to consider such a stone- which it doesn''t anyway.

In terms of trade in- I feel that you''re not getting a fair shake there either.
For one thing diamond prices have risen considerably over the past 8 years.
But more than that it seems really unfair to buy back a ring from you for half price while selling you a new one at full price.
I know it''s billed as the deal of the century, but it would stand to reason the seller is making profit on the new sale.

If you''re spending substantially more on this subsequent purchase I''d expect to get back what yo paid for the first one.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/30/2009 12:57:58 PM
Author: renoice
Thank you very much for your advice. Based on my limited understanding of the market, you confirmed my suspicion that it''s not a $100,000 stone in a ''normal'' market....

It was presented to me as a great stone with a fire sale price because of... blah... blah... blah. I''ve always trusted the jeweler but his recommendation to buy this stone has swayed my trust. I think it time to find a new jeweler!

We are very glad to help renoice!

 

[renoice]

Thanks again for everybody’s input. I told "my" jeweler that I did some research, spoke with professionals and was going to pass on his stone. He insisted that the stone is fantastic and that cut is subjective.... Well, after all you comments and the education available on this forum, I believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, there are industry standards that are indisputable!

Thanks for lending your expertise!