Calling Minousbijoux

[iLander]

I don't know what happened to the calling ilander thread! It disappeared! Maybe Maisie had it removed, or maybe it's a weird glitch on my computer, but I can't see it now. I saw your post for a few minutes, went away, came back, ready to write, and it was gone. How odd!

But anyway,

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this with your son. I'm glad he's doing a lot better, and I do think ultimately, he will be fine. Like Enerchi said, there are ups and downs. It sounds like your son is very smart, going IS to remove temptation. That's very responsible and smart. I'm sure you told him how proud you were of that.

I think you need to stop blaming yourself. I know, as moms we are taught that what we do is all-important, from our choice of baby wipes to how we potty train them, but frankly, I'm not so sure. I think a lot of times, even with our best efforts, the little boogers zig when the plan was that they zag. I know my DS and my DD turned out completely different, even though they had the same parents. But DS, now that he's in his 20's, turned out fine (he had issues ). DD has had her head on straight since birth. So, ITS NOT YOUR FAULT.

And yes, sometimes you have to be tough. If it comes down to yelling "I refuse to watch you destroy yourself, you a$$hole", then that's what you do. Kids want to know that they are NOT in charge. They want someone else to run the show, (because running the show is scary!) and if that's what you need to do, then so be it. Don't feel guilty at all, I'm proud that you found that in yourself.

I think a lot of talking is important. I'll bet on the one hand, he misses what things were like "before", and on the other he's forgetting the insecurities that led him there. I have a lot of addicts/alcoholics in my family, and it seemed to me that the issue was "how do I deal with bad feelings?" They didn't know, so they drank or did drugs. I think someone should have told them that feeling bad is normal, that it's not a permanent condition, and running away (into drugs or alcohol) doesn't make it go away, it just makes it worse. My dad (an alcoholic) also took another approach; he stopped thinking about himself so much by sponsoring others in AA. I think seeing someone else, in worse shape, helped a lot with his perspective. Can your DS help others? Maybe not with drugs particularly, but even teaching someone to read, helps you feel proud and responsible and takes your mind off stuff. Are you able to talk about this stuff with your DS?

Don't worry, I think he is a lot finer than you think. And I think he's sorry that it all happened in the first place.

 

[minousbijoux]

iLander, you are wonderful! Thanks for your wisdom. I'm sorry that I didn't get to see any of the responses either - I've been gone all afternoon doing errands and chores. But what an honor to get a shout from you!

I **think** you're right, but its hard. Its hard watching a child change before your eyes. I get the need-to-separate thing, but like you, I've always put honesty, respect and kindness ahead of other things. Hard to watch your child do the exact opposite, particularly when you know its largely substance abuse and the "gangsta" bravado borne of major insecurity. WTH? What happened to my baby? His little brother is as straight as they come, having learned what not to do from his brother

It's nice to hear stories of others that have made it to the other side, so to speak. In the meantime, I guess I just have to get used to the fact that it'll be a rough ride for a while...

Big hugs to you and thanks for reaching out.

 

[Enerchi]

Hey Minous! I guess as iLander said, the thread is gone, but I wanted to let you know it is possible to come out the other end and survive this very troubling road you are travelling. We had the EXACT situation when our son was 17 (started around 15...) and you watch it all happen like a slow motion train wreck, totally helpless to stop it... it was painful. We went thru the alcohol/drugs/school decline /legal.... it was hell. I too wondered, where is my son? who is this person? why are you like this??? I couldn't understand it at all. and I took it out on everyone. I was NASTY, to put it mildly! This was me ->

Hard to believe at the time, but what was the worst possible thing in our lives, turned out in the end, to be the perfect turning point for him. (sadly, it took me about 2 years longer than everyone else, to resolve it) In our case, things turned around. Not without challenges, that's for sure! Trust, once broken, takes an awful lot to regain - from both sides.

Now, he's approaching 22 and he's an amazing young man! We aren't going thru any of that stuff any longer, relationships are definitely mending beautifully and he has really matured. I'm quite proud of him!

I wish only the best for you as you go thru this. I don't want to overload you, but know you are not alone. That was the biggest hurdle for me - I felt like such a failure as a mother and that it was a reflection on me and what would other people think? - but once I 'came out' and talked about it, it was such a relief and there are supports out there. If you aren't involved in Al Anon yet --- get there! It will change your life!

 

[minousbijoux]

Enerchi: Thanks so much for your response - it is really, really good to hear stories like yours. You know, its funny, your analogy of a slow motion train wreck is exactly dead on; I worried this would happen well before it did, and talked to everyone trying to prevent it from happening. But you can't fix the problem before it happens. His character has always been one of pushing the boundaries, questioning authority, and instead of trusting his own leadership abilities, following the questionable leadership of others...

I have to say that while having lost my job is a financial hardship, it has been a God send in terms of giving me time - time to push him into a rehab program and then attend all the meetings, time to strategize with friends, family, and the few school district people who really believed in him, time to take him to school, time to attend parenting support groups and yes, time to reacquaint with that wonderful anonymous organization you mentioned I just hope its enough. Many of his friends are now trying to be clean and sober as well. He assumes others he hasn't seen in a while are likely in jail...

Hearing from those who've been through it is what I really need, because those who've been through it and come out the other side are those who can teach folks like me. Thank you so much for reaching out.

Hugs to you too!

 

[Enerchi]

That train wreck analogy is perfect, isn't it? You see it, you know what's going on, you are trying to "WAKE PEOPLE UP" about it, you can see where it's headed... but no one is doing anything! We went thru a whack of problems with the high school bureaucracy. Because he was 16 at the time, his rights superceded our parental concerns. We did get into other drug related programs to try to learn to manage our behaviour, and that was such a relief. Seeing others in the same boat, made us feel so much better - we weren't shameful parents, shunned by society and evil by all accounts to "LET" our son go down this path. It was a huge weight off our shoulders to learn others were in the same boat, so I'm glad that I can share my experiences with you.

Still - the train had left the station ....

The Alanon meetings were for my sanity. I'd reached what I thought was the bottom of my barrel and just went one night. What struck me (when I could listen and not sob thru the whole meeting!!) was how calm the people were there. It really gave me such hope. It took a long time to shift my thinking and be able to apply what I was learning, but when I did, I learned I'd survive this.

Just know, you are not alone. There will always be people judging - you, your son, your family - but you know what the real story is. You can get thru this and you will. There are a lot of ups and down on this journey. Don't berate yourself when you find you are sliding backwards. It happens....

This would be a perfect instance for an IM feature on PS! Happy to chat with you if you have an alternate to PS forums

 

[Aoife]

Hi Minou, I didn't see the original thread, but it sounds as though you and your family are having a very rough time of it, and I just wanted to send some dust/positive thoughts your way.

We haven't experienced exactly what you are going through, but after high school one of our DD's made some unhealthy (ha! there's an understatement) choices that took her years to recover from. And yes, it is terrifying as a parent to have to recognize how totally helpless you are to prevent/control/fix those choices. I don't really feel comfortable posting more than that, but I do understand what you are going through. To this day, very few people within our extended family and only a few very trusted friends have an inkling of what happened, and only a couple of people actually know the (almost) complete story. Finding a support group for yourself is crucial because there are lots of people out there who feel really comfortable making judgments, and are perfectly happy to do the whole shaming routine.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you are most certainly not alone, and that it is definitely possible for your son to pass through the storm to a safe place--and you are doing all the right things to make that happen. It's just very, very hard for you. Dust......

 

[minousbijoux]

Aoife and Enerchi: What really, really nice responses. I did keep quiet about it in my professional life for a long time because I felt like I would be judged by others whose "perfect" kids were getting good grades and already planning for college in their sophomore years. When I told people, I only told a few and most weren't judgmental, typically knowing someone who'd been through it. But it feels like its part of my healing in my personal life to talk about it with friends and family and bring them in as support for me. They've been great. My DS's father is not involved in his son's life, has not participated in any of the stuff around our son, and tends to tell me it was my leniency which caused the problem. Funny, I was always the strict Mom, but it got to the point where DS outgrew me and I couldn't "just make him" do things - I couldn't pick him up and carry him to the car; I couldn't "just force him" out of his room, you get the picture. I could go on and talk about my shortcomings, but at your suggestion, I won't beat myself up any more!

Thanks for the dust, it will come in handy and I really mean that!

Funny Aoife, I thought you were a young, just starting out Mom. I have this image of an Aoife as a young, rosy cheeked, cream complexion young thing...I guess too much Irish literature?

 

[minousbijoux]

I hope if there are any others here in a similar situation, or worried about the possibility of a situation like this, they feel comfortable to join in and talk about if they like...please feel free!

 

[Aoife]

Ha! No youthful, rosy cheeks here, that's for sure, unless you count rosacea, the curse of the Celt. Most of your contact with me was on the CS forum, where I tended to be fairly guarded, so I can see where you might have gotten that impression.

It's wonderful that you are creating a support system for yourself. Something like this has a way of clarifying who your true friends are, both within and outside your family.

Yeah, that whole "make him do things" bit from your son's father--I would love to see how well that would work for him. Ha! again. So much easier to say that from a lofty distance as opposed to, you know, actually engaging with his son.

 

[iLander]

When I was growing up, my dad was not around, and he came to visit me about once a year. He'd send a card for birthdays, always Snoopy , and occassionally call. Sometimes he's say he was coming, and I'd stand by the road watching for his car, and he'd call hours later to say he wasn't coming after all. He just wasn't there for me.

But for some reason, I worshipped him. I guess it's because he was never around, never the bad guy, never had to do any actual parenting and he always seemed "cool". So he was my hero, no matter how truly negligent he was. I now realize he's a narcissistic jerk, and I couldn't care less about him. But it took until my mid-30's to work this all out and to reconcile his alcoholism (Hey Dad! Still waiting for you to make "amends' dipwad! Sorry, I digress . . . )

I guess what I'm leading up to is that your son may have a lot of feelings for his dad, no matter how jerky he is, and maybe it's something to talk about with your son. I feel like it's a constant thorn for him, that he's sublimating. Is his dad just "so cool"?

Did you ever see the movie "Parenthood" with Steve Martin? I feel like it should be required for everyone that wants children. Parenting is nothing like the adorable ads in those parenting magazines, right?

And then when you're done raising them, and riding that roller coaster, they leave and go off into the world. And then they never call and only tolerate you when they visit. Hmmmm . . . sounds great.

 

[minousbijoux]

I LOVED Parenthood! It was one of the first true glimpses at a real family - warts and all.

iLander, I know you're picking up stuff from me, you must be because you're dead on. My DS, though, does not worship his Dad, at least not intellectually, but I think the bad relationship is a major part of what's going on. My son is really, really intuitive and sensitive with people and can pick up the tiniest emotional nuance if he wants to (I kind of think if there were one person that you could connect telepathically with, it would be him if he were willing, you know what I mean?). For a person with a strong sense of self worth, this skill is a gift. For someone not so confident, it has a big downside ("why are they looking at me that way?" or "I feel that they're not interested in me - they don't like me.") His little bro is just a different person - confident and always the one his Dad could relate to (BTW, I'm pretty sure Dad is narcissistic and many in his life are convinced he's bipolar). As a result, little DS was clearly Dad's fave.

When older DS was really little, he used to ask "why doesn't Daddy like me?" At least he could articulate it. Somewhere along the line, instead of dealing with it and talking it through, he modeled the tough guys and clammed up, instead of using his emotional intelligence, if that makes sense. He started to think that "talking about it," whatever "it" was, was weakness. He believes that therapy is a waste of time, and that what truly works is shutting Dad out (I won't go into the blow by blow, literally, of their relationship, but DS cut ties because he was tired of being so hurt so often by his Dad).

I know you're familiar with this, as it sounds like you've experienced something really similar in your life. It just sucks. No one should ever have to be constantly disappointed by their parent. I am sorry your Dad did that. Interesting that he can be comfortable sponsoring others without making amends - or maybe, in his limited capacity to think about others, he thinks he already has? I laughed out loud at your still waiting for the amends remark. That was a good one. But being aware of all of this has surely made you a great parent and definitely no child of yours was ever left waiting for you...

 

[iLander]

That's just it. I think I am picking him up, as weird as that sounds. Inside, he's terribly hurt. The tough guy thing is a shell, but you seem to know that. He also feels very protective of you, I don't know why that is.

I suspect he will feel comfortable talking about all this to his first "real" (fiance level) girlfriend. Someone he can open up to, and that will support him no matter what. He needs a girlfriend that will think he hung the moon, even when he's not being tough.

Here's what I would do with the dad, if it were me: call up Dad, and at some point, I'd casually say "I'm thinking of enrolling DS in Big Brothers, Big Sisters, he needs a stronger male influence in his life." That will get him going.

That is how I get my DH to fix things, I mention I'm going to call a repairman in. Works like a charm.

Actually, it sounds like you're doing well, and I'm glad you have this time for him. I think that worked out really well for you, actually. "Everything happens for a reason" as they say.

What is it you lost?

 

[Enerchi]

Totally agree with that statement - everything happens for a reason. you can't imagine that anything 'good' will come from this point in your life, or that there was a divine purpose for this event (how ever you want to phrase it or look at it...) but once you walk thru this and get to the other end of this dark tunnel, you'll really find there actually was a lesson in here for all of you.

It isn't presenting itself to you now, but you'll see it later. I don't mean that in a prophetic way, I just mean that when you look back at this time, there will be something here that really was a turning point in a good way. Your growth, his, your XH... something is coming from this.

(MAN - that sounds so hokey!)

One (of the MANY!!!) things I learned was to not keep it inside. Don't protect him - because you AREN:T protecting him. Thru that, it became better and easier to talk about it. I found support in people I would NEVER have expected it from. I also learned there were people in my life who weren't worth being in my life - they were taking up wasted space and they are now peripheral acquaintances. I also try to help others going thru this - each time I can talk and help someone, it keeps helping me. That makes me stay on my corrected parenting path. I also think that sponsors in any of the anonymous programs find the same thing - it keeps them always aware/ always on track.

Thank you for sharing your story minousbijoux and iLander for being the catalyst.

 

[minousbijoux]

That's just it. I think I am picking him up, as weird as that sounds. Inside, he's terribly hurt. The tough guy thing is a shell, but you seem to know that. He also feels very protective of you, I don't know why that is.

You absolutely, without a doubt nailed it; everyone who knows him says how protective of me he is. Hard for me to see it now.



What is it you lost?

I *thought* I lost my son; he really is the only thing I wanted you to help me find. I think you're doing that.

 

[minousbijoux]

Totally agree with that statement - everything happens for a reason. you can't imagine that anything 'good' will come from this point in your life, or that there was a divine purpose for this event (how ever you want to phrase it or look at it...) but once you walk thru this and get to the other end of this dark tunnel, you'll really find there actually was a lesson in here for all of you.

It isn't presenting itself to you now, but you'll see it later. I don't mean that in a prophetic way, I just mean that when you look back at this time, there will be something here that really was a turning point in a good way. Your growth, his, your XH... something is coming from this.

(MAN - that sounds so hokey!)

Enerchi: this is SO true. I have learned from every hardship I've been through. Surviving late stage breast cancer when my kids were little stripped away a lot of trivialities for me. Friends and family. That's it. Loyalty for life. Still working on taking care of myself and setting limits. I think that's what this is about; learning to set the limits he needs to be safe and I need to be happy.

Thank you for all your wisdom - keep it coming.