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Calling DF - is Rolex or PP a better buy?

Phoenix

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Hi DF!:wavey:

I've been looking for another watch, preferably one with some diamonds, to supplement my one and only watch, a Patek Philippe Nautilus 3800/1A .

A friend of mine who has a very good r/s with Rolex has just bought a Rolex 40mm, Day Date President (see pic below) in Pt, for approx USD90k equivalent. She got a 20% discount approx from Rolex. Now, I am looking at either that or the WG version, more likely the WG, which is going for USD45-47k after discount (we're still negotiating).

I looked up prices of Rolex and they've gone up a lot. I bought a small one for GBP3k in the UK about 26 yrs ago and it's now about GBP8-9k. So it's tripled in value, albeit in a long period of time.

I am also thinking as an alternative to get another PP. I bought my existing PP watch from Christies in 2011 and paid USD17k for it. I just checked prices online and apparently a similar one is going for USD30k. So, it looks like PP prices have gone up even more, if we were to compare the same time period. At this time, don't know yet which model I'd be getting, if I were to go for PP again.

Of course, I know asking prices are not the same as achieved, but which would be a better watch to buy, in terms of retention of value and ease of resale? I like both brands. Or perhaps you have another brand & model in mind you'd like to recommend? I prefer something around 40mm in diameter and with some diamonds, ie. a more blingy watch.

PS. My ultimate watch is a blingy RM, but I really can't afford it. What's this like, in terms of retention of value - just out of curiosity?

Rolex_President Pt 40mm.jpg
 
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Dancing Fire

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Phoenix
The prices of modern PP S/S Nautilus and S/S Rolex sport watches have gone through the roof during the past 10 months...IOW, no discounts if you can find one at the ADs. However, you should be able to haggle 20% off MSRP on most precious metal watches w/o any problems.

PP or Rolex??... I would take a look at these Patek AC. ;))
patek-philippe-annual-calendar-rose-gold-pink-strap.jpg__1536x0_q75_crop-scale_subsampling-2_upscale-false.jpg

4937G_001.jpg


patek-philippe-mother-of-pearl-18k-white-gold-diamond-ladies-4936g-001-watch-3456478-0-0.jpg

patek-philippe-ladies-complicated-watches-1.jpg
 

Dancing Fire

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Retention of value in watches ???
Buying a new watch is like buying a new diamond you will take a hit as soon as you walk out the door. The key is how much can you haggle off of MSRP...:wink2:

If you like a Rolex WG go for it!..:clap:. You have many models to choose from Rolex, a lot of different dial color/combo available.
 
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OoohShiny

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Retention of value in watches ???
Buying a new watch is like buying a new diamond you will take a hit as soon as you walk out the door. The key is how much can you haggle off of MSRP...:wink2:

If you like a Rolex WG go for it!..:clap:. You have many models to choose from Rolex, a lot of different dial color/combo available.
This!

Personally speaking, I think RM are overpriced to attract 'a certain clientele' - they generally seem to be very ugly (IMHO) and not something that anyone would want to buy secondhand.

Hublot are, to my eyes, similar - there is a lot of 'label' in those prices.

Rolex are also overpriced IMO - they seemingly are cranking up prices 10% or more a year for no other reason than they can. That said, Rolex is probably known by 99% of the world's population as an 'expensive watch', so finding a secondhand buyer is not usually difficult and some of the rarer models do maintain value or even appreciate (although you will need your crystal ball to predict which ;-) ).


Have you looked at Audemars Piguet? (which I think is pronounced 'pee gay'?? :lol: ) They are similarly priced to Rolex and PP, perhaps even more expensive (Stainless Steel watches for £20k, anyone?) and you are (of course) paying for a lot of label in the MSRP, but they have some classic designs by Gerald Genta in the Royal Oak range, and Genta did also design the Nautilus so both share design language.
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=616244
I'm not sure they would be so easy to sell on, though.

If you are willing to consider secondhand watches, there are a couple of websites that collate sales listings and might be worth a look, such as:
https://www.watchrecon.com/?brand=audemars+piguet&last_days=0
 
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Phoenix

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Thank you so much, @Dancing Fire. What is AD?

And those PP watches, aren't they 35mm? Or do they come in a larger size?

When I talk about "retention of value", I mean the prices don't go down as much as for say diamonds. I think diamonds are a very poor investment. At least, my PP's price hasn't gone down. Instead, it's gone up, a lot. Ok, I know I wouldn't get asking price, but I should at least recoup my original outlay.

Why have PP Nautilus and Rolex sports S/S prices gone up so much? Any particular reason?

And 20% off retail is the norm? If one haggles?
 
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december-fire

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Hi Phoenix! :wavey:

Popping in to say "Authorized Dealer"! (AD) ;)2

You're considering beautiful watches. Not a surprise given your wonderful taste in jewellery. =)2
 

OoohShiny

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Why have PP Nautilus and Rolex sports S/S prices gone up so much? Any particular reason?
Because Capitalism + 'aspirational' pricing. :razz:


I didn't know Rolex offered any discounts, 20% seems very high, but then I am not in the socioeconomic group that can afford precious metal watches :( lol (Or even Stainless Steel watches with a nice logo on them!!)
 

Phoenix

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This!

Personally speaking, I think RM are overpriced to attract 'a certain clientele' - they generally seem to be very ugly (IMHO) and not something that anyone would want to buy secondhand.

Hublot are, to my eyes, similar - there is a lot of 'label' in those prices.

Rolex are also overpriced IMO - they seemingly are cranking up prices 10% or more a year for no other reason than they can. That said, Rolex is probably known by 99% of the world's population as an 'expensive watch', so finding a secondhand buyer is not usually difficult and some of the rarer models do maintain value or even appreciate (although you will need your crystal ball to predict which ;-) ).


Have you looked at Audemars Piguet? (which I think is pronounced 'pee gay'?? :lol: ) They are similarly priced to Rolex and PP, perhaps even more expensive (Stainless Steel watches for £20k, anyone?) and you are (of course) paying for a lot of label in the MSRP, but they have some classic designs by Gerald Genta in the Royal Oak range, and Genta did also design the Nautilus so both share design language.
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=616244
I'm not sure they would be so easy to sell on, though.

If you are willing to consider secondhand watches, there are a couple of websites that collate sales listings and might be worth a look, such as:
https://www.watchrecon.com/?brand=audemars+piguet&last_days=0

Haha, I like quite a few of the RM models, in particular the Phoenix watch that Michelle Yeoh wears in Crazy Rich Asians....for obvious reasons.;))

I agree with what you say about Rolex. I'd love to figure out which ones are collectors' items. Mind you, these are likely gonna run into the million dollar mark or more.

I used to like AP, but someone talked me out of it, lol. Now, I am not so enamoured with it, primarily bc they're a little too big/ too masculine for my very tiny wrists.

Secondhand watches are great value, but generally I stay away from them bc I do not know much about watches. Having said that though, I bought my existing PP from Christies and will certainly consider buying from them again and/ or from Sothebys.
 

Phoenix

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Hi Phoenix! :wavey:

Popping in to say "Authorized Dealer"! (AD) ;)2

You're considering beautiful watches. Not a surprise given your wonderful taste in jewellery. =)2

Thank you.:))
 

Dancing Fire

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Thank you so much, @Dancing Fire. What is AD?

And those PP watches, aren't they 35mm? Or do they come in a larger size?

Why have PP Nautilus and Rolex sports S/S prices gone up so much? Any particular reason?

And 20% off retail is the norm? If one haggles?
If you wanna go 40mm on a PP you need to look at gent's watches, but with gent's watches not many models comes with diamonds.

The reason S/S sports watches have gone up so much b/c some crazy people are willing to pay the price. here are just couple of examples. These watches are trading hands at 120% over MSRP.

https://davidsw.com/product/rolex-126710blro-gmt-master-ii-new-release-basel-2018-2/

5711_1A_010.jpg


20% off is a good price for a Rolex.
 

Rockdiamond

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I remember a watch dealer telling me this one time:
Dave- the top five watch brands are:
Rolex
Rolex
Rolex
Rolex
Rolex

If it comes to resale/value retention, I think he's right......
 

OoohShiny

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Haha, I like quite a few of the RM models, in particular the Phoenix watch that Michelle Yeoh wears in Crazy Rich Asians....for obvious reasons.;))

I agree with what you say about Rolex. I'd love to figure out which ones are collectors' items. Mind you, these are likely gonna run into the million dollar mark or more.

I used to like AP, but someone talked me out of it, lol. Now, I am not so enamoured with it, primarily bc they're a little too big/ too masculine for my very tiny wrists.

Secondhand watches are great value, but generally I stay away from them bc I do not know much about watches. Having said that though, I bought my existing PP from Christies and will certainly consider buying from them again and/ or from Sothebys.

The APs are not crazy-size in the Royal Oak line, they max out about 40mm IIRC :))
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/w...38.5,27,28,33,34,36,37,41&group-by=collection

Just having a quick browse of those in the list on that link - I love me a blue dial watch, and this looks lovely!
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/royal-oak/15410BC.GG.1224BC.01/

It's 41mm, though, so might be too large.

They do a 37mm version with some diamonds in the bezel:
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/royal-oak/15451ST.ZZ.1256ST.03/

But if you really want some bling... :D
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/royal-oak/15202BC.ZZ.1241BC.01/
or
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/royal-oak/15452BC.ZZ.1258BC.01/
 

Dancing Fire

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Big watches are in style now but who knows when this trend will reverse.
Idunno1.gif


Have you ever try on a 40mm yet? Here are a few pics of 38mm watches on my 6.75" wrist.

IMG_1925.JPG DSCN0656.JPG DSCN0269.JPG IMG_4499.JPG
 

Alexiszoe

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I noticed @OoohShiny mentioned a couple of AP royal oak watches and the sizes. Just a point to note, even though the measurements state 40 / 41mm etc, the design of it means the strap extends beyond the lug I.e more likely to fit like a 44mm instead. I was in AP looking at some rose gold options, but only the smallest (37mm)barely fit me, and the options for women are limited. I remember you have a pretty small wrist too, so some food for thought!
 

Phoenix

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Big watches are in style now but who knows when this trend will reverse.
Idunno1.gif


Have you ever try on a 40mm yet? Here are a few pics of 38mm watches on my 6.75" wrist.

IMG_1925.JPG DSCN0656.JPG DSCN0269.JPG IMG_4499.JPG

Your watch is BEAUTIFUL!!:love:

I have indeed tried on the 40mm Day-Date President. The pic above in my first post shows my friend's watch on my wrist. It is a little big and I find that 39mm fits me just right, but that size is only available in Pearlmaster and I really want a Day-Date.

Who knows anything about trends. I just buy what I like. lol
 

lambskin

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Why not buy the watch you like the best and enjoy it?
 

Dancing Fire

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I have indeed tried on the 40mm Day-Date President. The pic above in my first post shows my friend's watch on my wrist. It is a little big and I find that 39mm fits me just right, but that size is only available in Pearlmaster and I really want a Day-Date.
Then go for it! :appl:today's D/D are much heavier than my 27 yrs old 36mm D/D, b/c of its solid gold links.
 

Phoenix

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I noticed @OoohShiny mentioned a couple of AP royal oak watches and the sizes. Just a point to note, even though the measurements state 40 / 41mm etc, the design of it means the strap extends beyond the lug I.e more likely to fit like a 44mm instead. I was in AP looking at some rose gold options, but only the smallest (37mm)barely fit me, and the options for women are limited. I remember you have a pretty small wrist too, so some food for thought!

Yes, I've discerned this too. They're far too big for my tiny wrists.
 
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Dancing Fire

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I think I will. Thank you, @Dancing Fire.

I'd love to see pics of your D/D.
36mm YG. When I bought this watch in 1991 I got like 32% off retail which was $8100 USD not including the diamond dial or bezel.

IMG_2043 (640x480).jpg
 

Phoenix

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36mm YG. When I bought this watch in 1991 I got like 32% off retail which was $8100 USD not including the diamond dial or bezel.

IMG_2043 (640x480).jpg

It's gorgeous!!:love:

And what an amazing price too!!:clap: It's shocking how much prices have gone up!!
 

Phoenix

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I remember a watch dealer telling me this one time:
Dave- the top five watch brands are:
Rolex
Rolex
Rolex
Rolex
Rolex

If it comes to resale/value retention, I think he's right......

I think he's right too.
 

Dancing Fire

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Phoenix

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Dancing Fire

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This is the only watch that I regret not buying in 2001??? :confused: for $38K. Today this pre-owned watch would easily fetch over $100K.
Simplicity2_L.jpg

simplicity-back2-small.jpg


The way it works when a customer puts in an order with Dufour (a one man show) 1/3 of the money down,plus a 6 yr waiting period. :o every watch is put together by the man himself. He is an independent watchmaker who produces very few watches per yr. (about 25 pieces) in his little shop. Very few people have ever heard of Dufour.
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

Just either saw or read about PP. One reason they hold their value is that the company makes far less of them than Rolex. Rolex makes about 100,000 per yr. The number of PP is substantially lower and I think they are handmade. I was very impressed with PP lineage and I suggest you check the facts I have stated. For me it would be no contest. PP Good luck.

Annette
 

canuk-gal

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HI:

How about a Lange?

FWIW--me super LOVES that WG Rolex.........

cheers--Sharon
 

Dancing Fire

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HI:

How about a Lange?

cheers--Sharon
Lange is my fav brand now. IMO, their detailed finish on the movement is above Patek, plus Lange only produce about 7K watches per yr. while Patek produces about 45K mechanical watches per yr.
 
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