Calling all Asscher owners

[mistervoo]

This question is for all the asscher owners or purchasers out there. I will be buying a ring before years end and needed the opinion and expertise of you that purchased the Asscher.

What do you think is the most important quality of the asscher cut?

Did you end up purchasing your ring online? or in a B&M?

Given the choice of a larger diamond or better quality (color, clarity) what would you choose and why?

What's more important with an asscher cut, Color or Clarity?

What should the table size vs the depth size be?

I've been looking at this diamond here. http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamond_details.php?itemid=82038

Does anyone have any experience with union? thanks all! you all are awesome!!

 

[Hest88]

Looks like you mean a generic asscher (a square emerald) as opposed to a Royal Asscher?

My sister and I just went through the process of tracking down a stone for her. In my mind, the most important--and difficult thing--is to ensure that the stone has a true octagonal appearance vs. just a square emerald look. I ended up steering her to a few online jewelers I trusted to know the difference, and the only one who was able to find what she needed was Whiteflash. She also was quite impressed with a local jeweler, but she ended up preferring the WF stone. You can read all about it here:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/asscher-square-emerald-quest.21147/=

As to the question about size vs. color vs. clarity we opted for what she could see. IOWs, we wanted to get the largest stone within her price range that was eyeclean and white. As a result, color and clarity for any particular stone needs to be seen in order to know if it falls within your acceptable ranges.

Your Union stone *might* be nice. I would prefer a smaller table but I recently saw stats for a Royal Asscher with a table in the 60% range, so the ranges seem to be more flexible that I''d thought. Plus, my sister''s stone also has a larger table than we were aiming for and it looks quite good.

 

[aronsh]

Hi Mistervoo,
I have gone through the same thing as you, and have seen more than a dozen "generic" asschers, as well as 4 Royal Asschers, and ended up buying a Royal Asscher just today

I can make a few observations:
1) ALL Asschers, due to the nature of their cut (high depth %) will show "smaller" than its carat weight suggests. A 2.5 carat RAC will look roughly the same size as a 2 carat round from top view. Therefore, your 1 carat will look much smaller when you see it in person
2) a VVS is a "waste" of money. If you have limited budget use it wisely, i.e. don't waste your money on a feature that is "microscopic" and the naked or trained eye can not see. No one on EARTH can distinguish a VVS from a VS or an eyeclean SI1 without proper instruments. Drop down to a VS1 or VS2 and purchase a larger stone and you will be at the same price.
3) You want the table percentage to be 59-61% and depth of 65-68%. Make sure the facets are not too thin, as these facets help reflect the light much like little mirrors. Therefore, you want them a bit wide, or "prominent"
4) For generic Asschers, if you can find an E-F or G color you will save alot of $ over a D color. I have seen 2 excellent cut Asschers side by side, one D amd one F, and in a blind test I picked the F color as the superior stone.
5) Make sure the polish/symmetry are either EXCELLENT or VG, if possible
6) Do NOT choose a stone with a Fluorescence, as most agree it is not an admirable feature in a high color stone
Good luck
Aron

 

[windowshopper]

6) Do NOT choose a stone with a Fluorescence, as most agree it is not an admirable feature in a high color stone

why not desirable in a high color as opposed to a G??

 

[windowshopper]

where do people buy "royal asschers" as opposed to generic square emeralds?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/24/2004 12:23:25 AM
Author: windowshopper
6) Do NOT choose a stone with a Fluorescence, as most agree it is not an admirable feature in a high color stone

why not desirable in a high color as opposed to a G??

This deserves a new thread. It is an interesting discussion and hasn''t been brought up for a while (although it was a bit back).

 

[aronsh]

Fluorescence, if "faint", whitens the yellow look of lower color stones, I-J etc. There is no need to "whiten" a high color stone D-G. Too much fluorescence will create an "oily" look

You can buy Royal Asscher stones from official retailers throughout the country. I will list a few of them

1) Frtunoff. New York
2) Long''s. Massachusetts
3) Mednikow. Atlanta and memphis
4) DBOF Florida (they post on this website)
5) Lester Lampert Chicago
6) Samuel Gordon''s Oklahoma
7) Turgeon Raine Seattle
Elleard Heffern Fine Jewelers Missouri
9) Davidson & Licht California

I have contacts names. If interested send me a pm

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/24/2004 12:26:31 AM
Author: windowshopper
where do people buy ''royal asschers'' as opposed to generic square emeralds?

Good asschers are hard to find and the royal asscher is top of the line in them for the most part.
With some hunting and some time you could do just as well with a generic.
Myself I like the more clip cornered square look that is easier to find.

 

[mistervoo]

wow thanks for all the info guys. I''ll keep this in mind. I wish stores had more asschers for me to look at. Most stores i''ve been to don''t even have any asschers to look at. I''m in nyc and still having trouble find an asscher. Thanks alot guys for your responses! Keep em coming

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/24/2004 9:28:35 AM
Author: mistervoo
wow thanks for all the info guys. I''ll keep this in mind. I wish stores had more asschers for me to look at. Most stores i''ve been to don''t even have any asschers to look at. I''m in nyc and still having trouble find an asscher. Thanks alot guys for your responses! Keep em coming

good old gold in long island has a bunch in stock.
It would be worth the trip in my opinion.
If nothing else you will learn a ton about them.
www.goodoldgold.com

If you go tell Jonathan that strmrdr says heyas :}

 

[mistervoo]

strmrdr,
I actually called them before heading out there and they had none in stock to look at. I spoke to Tim and he said he would get back to me. He told me that they could get some for me to look at but it would cost about 55-100 bucks to get it shipped into them for me to look at. I was a little put back that I would have to pay to look. Any one ever hear about this from GOG or any dealer? I went to a few places and they got me the diamonds to look at without a charge.

 

[Hest88]

Date: 11/24/2004 12:26:31 AM
Author: windowshopper
where do people buy ''royal asschers'' as opposed to generic square emeralds?

A Royal Asscher has 74 facets instead of 57/58 and that really does translate to a more "pool-like" and scintillating appearance. My sister, even though she settled for a sq emerald, still finds the RA noticably more mesmerizing---as do I. However, it is quite a bit pricier, hence the compromise.

 

[kanne]

I find it amazing that GOG would charge you to look at a stone. My BF and I were there last week and honestly, were not completely thrilled. Not much stone selection..although what we saw was good, and the salesperson did pull out the idealscope and give us some education. Their setting selections are weak and even though they do carry Richard Landi, they don''t have any examples in-store. Maybe they were just having a bad day.

We also went to Fortunoff''s NYC to see the Royal Asscher. They only had THREE! And out of the 3, one was an I and one was a J color. Without a doubt, you will see the difference between a generic asscher and a RA. And yes, they are much more expensive than the generics.

We are finding it very difficult to find a good generic that is cut CORRECTLY (so many of them aren''t even SQUARE!) and, IMO, you can''t go with any SI stones since you will see all the inclusions. All in all, a discouraging process.

good luck!

kanne

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/24/2004 10:30:54 AM
Author: mistervoo
strmrdr,

I actually called them before heading out there and they had none in stock to look at. I spoke to Tim and he said he would get back to me. He told me that they could get some for me to look at but it would cost about 55-100 bucks to get it shipped into them for me to look at. I was a little put back that I would have to pay to look. Any one ever hear about this from GOG or any dealer? I went to a few places and they got me the diamonds to look at without a charge.

They have generic asschers listed in stock but likely not royal asschers.
But he does have some very well cut generic asschers.
Sorry if I wasnt clear on that.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/asscher.htm

Those should be in stock.
As far as charging to bring a royal asscher in thats rather strange.

 

[aronsh]

Kanne,
What are you looking for in a sonte? What is your price range, size, clarity, etc., and I''ll check my logs to see if I came across anything similar during my quest for my RAC. If you put alot of time, you WILL find any stone you''re after

 

[sciencegeek]

My fiance got my generic Asscher from GOG, and Jonathan was great to work with- countless emails back and forth

Rhino, if you''re out there, I love my stone more and more all the time. It''s perfect

I looked at both Royal Asschers and generics, and I actually prefer the generic. The extra facets of the Royal made the stone look like it had too much going on, IMO. What I like best about Asschers is seeing the geometry of the facets- the concentric squares and the nice X pattern. But there are a lot of crappy generics out there and Jonathan was very helpful in finding a good one that was perfectly square, significantly cut corners, and had excellent light performance.

For the record, mine''s a 1.23/E/VS1/medium blue fluor. It is not oily in any way, I''ve heard that oiliness and milkiness only occur rarely, even in high color stones with strong fluorescence. I find the fluorescence to be a positive attribute- I love the way my stone is tinged with light blue-lavender color in strong sunlight (only happens on a clear day, when the sun is high in the sky, and the diamond is held at a particular angle)

 

[windowshopper]

i know who has great ones private message me and i will tell you

 

[kanne]

aronsh

1.3 - 1.5 Square Emerald (generic asscher) no lower than VS2 clarity, E F G or H color with an excellent cut. Budget is 9K. Thanks for taking a look!

kanne

 

[Rhino]

Hi All,

Just thought I''d answer some of the points brought up here and lay out my cards.

Settings: We have in stock (as I write this) roughly 200 settings in our showcases plus approx. another 200-300 in our safes (all of them will not fit in our showcases). I suppose what one may consider a "weak" selection is based upon what you''re comparing our stock too. Kanne brought up Richard Landi''s and that we didn''t have any here. That is simply because Richard Landi settings are custom made for the diamond that is going into it and they are ordered on diamond for diamond basis.

Kanne also brought up ... "Not much stone selection". Even with the lack of availability of rough, perhaps we didn ''t have as much as you expected because the goods we do purchase for stock are scrutinized to the nth degree. We turn down most of the diamonds that are sent for inspection as they must meet our optical criteria. However even at that if you compare "in stock inventories" of any jeweler in the country you''ll find one of the highest concentrations of superior quality diamonds right here in Massapequa Park. Not many stores in the country can show you the amount of diamonds we feature that are of this caliber. I''m not talking common garbage ... I''m talking superior goods. Perhaps I''m out of the loop but can you name for me one or two other B&M stores that feature the selection and variety of diamonds we do?

Now ... here is a hot topic that perhaps we can expound further upon. CHARGING TO BRING DIAMONDS IN FOR ANALYSIS & REVIEW.

Some here find it surprising or are amazed that we ask our clients to cover shipping on stones we bring in. Let me explain how this has evolved within our company and why we do.

At one time we did not ask anying of our clients to bring in diamonds for inspection and analysis. In most B&M stores (including ours a few years ago) the request to bring in diamonds to view would happen a few times a month. We''d call in stones for people to see which would either result in a sale or not. No biggie either way as we don''t pressure anyone to buy and till this day we NEVER push anyone into anything. We let the facts speak for themselves and our clients purchase because they want to, not because someone coerced them to.

However, over time and exposure via the net, demand for our unique analysis has increased. Here was the procedure. John Q Public would request to see a selection of stones. Usually at least 3. We would call them in and pay for round trip shipping. Fully insured round trip shipping on diamonds that cost between 5k-7k runs $65 a pop. We then do the scans, take the pictures, etc. on each stone. I have staff hired to do all this work which also adds value ... a service that many would agree is unique not only to thet net but also a B&M store.

Now ... ya''ll put yourself in my shoes for a moment. Consider all the tire kickers and people who are fascinated with the scans and info we provide and want to *see* all this data and info before they purchase but say perhaps they''re not quite ready ... or plans have changed ... or after all I''ve done Mr. Noserve is selling the same stone for $x.xx less ... or the flash of blue wasn''t quite exactly what they thought it was going to be ... etc. etc. etc. ....

After investing the monies to call in all the diamonds, taking all the time to show our clients under B''scope, Isee2, LightScope, H&A, Sarin/OGI, then demonstrating how these correlate to appearance in diffuse, ambient, direct light ... etc. etc. etc. only to hear ... GREAT but not quite ready yet ... (which is absolutely fine) we found ourselves spending on average (not to mention our time which is more valuable to us than the monies) around $150 just to *show* people stones. Now ... multiply this request x 5-10 a day and we''re talking a SERIOUS investment on our part for many who after they email us and we email them back don''t hear from. How do I weed out the tire kickers from those who are serious? Ya''ll ... put yourself into my shoes for a moment ...

Actually let me pose the question to our readers as I am always looking for the most effective ways to improve our services.

If you were me and get between 25-50 requests to *see* the results of x amount of diamonds ... how would *you* seperate the serious folk from the tire kickers? If I as John Q. Public wanted to see B''scope Results, Isee2 results, H&A images, LightScope results, Sarin, models, microscope pictures etc. on 3 diamonds do I spend all the time and monies it takes to do this for each and every call at my own expense? My fair resolution to this was to ask people to at least cover my shipping on this while I do all the work FOR FREE. At least this way I know I''m going to hear back from the client and get a response after doing everything. And if not, I may be out the expense I paid my employess to do the work but at least I''m covered in my shipping. Do ya''ll think that what I am asking is unfair? I''d appreciate any input ya''ll would share cause if there is a more effective and fair way of doing it I''m all ears.

Peace,

 

[Hest88]

I don''t think it''s uncommon for a vendor to ask a client to pay for shipping a stone in. My sister paid Whiteflash to bring in the stone she was interested in.

 

[strmrdr]

I knew that was your policy on internet sales/call ins but Im kinda shocked that thats your policy when someone is coming to see you.
I can see why you do it but its not the industry standard, not yet anyway.
Also if they are there in person the sarin and b-scope (isee2 on rounds) should be enough the rest you can show them in person.
Then if they want the rest of the pictures they can be provided after the sale. (charge extra?)

There isnt anything wrong with it I guess if the current way is how you want to handle it.
Its just different and might cost you some sales but might save you enough to make up for it.
I dunno.

Anyway its good to know what your policy is so that I dont tell someone the wrong thing.

As for settings there is no way anyone can stock everything someone might be looking for and impossible with some designers as you stated so I dont have a problem there.

 

[Mayacamas]

I have paid for stones to be brought in, provided that if I chose to buy the stone that minimal amount would be deducted from the price (like I would know.............)

I think with the advent of forums like this one and the connectivity of the web we (consumers) forget that we are dealing with professionals who earn a living( some better than others) dispensing information and advice.

Do you ask your accountant, attorney, or in my case as I am a doc, for free service?

People should get paid for time and expertice- them and you.

I will tell you that once I have done my homework to decide EXACTLY WHAT I WANT, the money I have spent to get a professional opinion has save me thousands of dollars in the long run.

Just my opinion.

 

[kanne]

hmmm. Love your avatar Rhino! You made some interesting points.

Just saying (and since everyone has suddenly brought their own professions in as examples - I am the fourth generation in a family owned manufacturing business) that IMO, customer service and good product are the most important parts of any business. We know that you have good product (never said you didn''t

).

I''m probably getting in deep here, but wouldn''t the mark-up on the stones cover overhead costs like "tire-kickers" and stone shipping? And if you (yourself) were going to spend a lot of cash (in our case 10K) on a diamond wouldn''t you do the research and kick some tires yourself? Think of it from a consumer standpoint...buying a diamond is scary.

Keep in mind, this is just my OPINION.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[mistervoo]

Rhino,
Thanks for the clarification. Don't get me wrong, I'm still very new with diamonds. I can understand your charge and how you must filter those that are looking and those that are buying. Business is business and I understand your situation. I'm just glad that you came out and explained your take on this.

I was just hoping that I would be come in and see what you advertised on your site without a fee. My first reaction when i saw the diamond on your site was "Great they have it in stock I'll call and then drive over!". After speaking with Tim (he was very professional), he mentioned the fee. As a consumer I don't say this to be negative towards you in any way, but it felt like I just fell for the bait. I'm sure this is not the case because your reputation precedes you, but at the after the conversation I wasn't sure what to think. Now should I request something that's not advertised on your site, by all means i should pay, that's fair. I was hoping to come take a look at that 1 carat asscher advertised but there were no asschers that can be immediately viewed. I guess my suggestion would be to maybe charge a customer to see a diamond not posted or if you need to call it in. But for diamonds advertised as in store people should be able to come and see it without a fee. Also if you have a list of people looking when new cuts come in you can call them and see if they want to come in and take a look at the same group of diamonds.

I am glad that you hold the high standard to hand pick each diamond. Over all, thanks Rhino for the clear up.

 

[strmrdr]

Wait a second here..
There may be a breakdown in communication if its listed on his site it should be available for viewing except for the aditional h&a search section. No fee because its allready in stock. Unless its on hold for someone else and not available and he usualy says so on the site.
The fee kicks in only if its not in stock.

I sent him a message to check back here again and clear this up

 

[Rhino]

Greetings Mr. Voo!

I am going to start a new thread on this very subject but my staff and I are currently discussing the situation and will be making some policy changes regarding what we do and don''t charge for regarding calling in stones for people. While there is clearly a need to weed out time wasters from serious people, if you would like to make an appointment to view Asschers at our store give us a call and we''ll call in some stones (with the best numbers) on our tab for ya.

Peace,

 

[Rhino]

Here is a repsonse I had written before my last one ...

Good points. There’s a bit I’d like to share on this issue so please bear with me as I’d like some feedback from our readers as well.

We do absorb the shipping cost into the price of the diamond so when a client covers our cost to call in a stone and a sale is consummated we count the cost to ship it as a deposit upon a sale and deduct it from the price of the diamond.

The straw that broke this camels back strmrdr was when we had a few clients have us call in multiple 3-4ct stones (local but found us via the net). We shelled out close to a grand in shipping costs to *help* these people, spent hours of time sharing my expertise, experience & knowledge and showed them how that shape performed under all our lab equipment and various light conditions only to have them nickel and dime me because an Internet only vendor was offering the same stone for a % or 2 less. So ... I wind up teaching, educating, showing how the stones he was looking at correlated under all types of various light conditions, around a grand of out of pocket expense to me shipping the stones in only to help Mr. Pajamapants. Now ... in the industry it is nothing to lose a sale for one reason or another. Happens all the time and no big whoop. But when I have to start laying out hundreds of dollars of our capital to help the pajamaboys on the net ... that ain''t happening here anymore.

Strmrdr... we are dealing with a ruthless society out there. There are MANY people who would think NOTHING of having me spend hundreds or thousands of my own hard earned dollars to show them the facts only to blow me off for the vendor who''ll sell it to them for $5.00 less. I''m a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty but our only precaution to avoiding being taken advantage of is to ask for help on the shipping (which we don''t make a dime off of). Another thing to consider ... If a person wanted the data we provided on each and every stone they would have to ship the diamond to multiple locations and would end up costing them WAAAAAAAAY more in appraisal fees PLUS shipping, so covering our shipping to provide the data we do is 100x more cost effective than sending all the stones to multiple appraisers (or even just one for that matter) to gain the knowledge we provide. We also provide all that data in hard copy format as well which we include in our appraisal of the completed ring. There is great value in that as well as protecting our clients, cause if they lost or damaged the ring/diamond the insurance company replaces what is described in that appraisal and we provide a rather unique appraisal.

On another note ... we don''t always charge for shipping. There are circumstances where we do not.

Those would include ...
a. calling in diamonds that we would typically purchase for inventory including
b. Jubilee''s
c. Square H&A''s
d. Round H&A (that are known H&A''s) which we don''t have in stock *and would like to have in stock*
e. Princess cuts I would purchase for inventory etc.

Sciencegeek (btw... thanks for the kind words man!!!

) got his Asscher in the exact manner I''ve been describing. We located a bunch of GIA stones within his range. We narrowed down as best we could the finest stones according to the numbers. We called in and analyzed his top choices and had it narrowed down to two stones that had top light performance in direct light conditions. The difference between the 2 was how they performed/appeared in diffuse light conditions which we discussed over the phone. Long story short we sent both to him, he viewed both with his fiancé and was careful to view the diamonds in the light conditions we recommended (we recommend as many as possible but certain ones that emphasize the differences in appearance) and sciencegeek wound up with an Asscher that has optical properties among the rarest on the planet. He covered my shipping to call in the rocks and we absorbed the cost of shipping into the price of the diamond.

This protects all parties involved. Sciencegeek has my commitment to locating the finest and best Asscher according to my experience/expertise/lab equipment with an assurance I’ll hear back from him once I fulfill my obligations with regards to the time/labor we put into our work and at the same time I am protected cause if he was a deadbeat I’m not calling in diamonds on my tab only to never get a response and if he, for some reason chooses not to buy at least I didn’t take a bath in shipping fees.

I think I”d like to start a thread on this very subject cause it was not my intent to thwart the subject matter of this thread and I would sincerely like consumer input on this issue. I would like to resolve something that is fair for *all* parties. As long as the responses are reasonable I will make them our official policy.

Peace,
Jon

 

[strmrdr]

I will wait for the new thread and post my answer there.
I see where your coming from.

See your pm box for a question.

 

[mistervoo]

Just curious Rhino, was sciencegeek an internet customer? or was he going to come in and see you personally? I think we''re in different situations. I''m in nyc and would just drive out to you. It looks like science geek was an internet customer, please correct me if i''m wrong. Thanks!!

 

[Rhino]

Date: 11/27/2004 6:36:36 AM
Author: mistervoo
Just curious Rhino, was sciencegeek an internet customer? or was he going to come in and see you personally? I think we''re in different situations. I''m in nyc and would just drive out to you. It looks like science geek was an internet customer, please correct me if i''m wrong. Thanks!!

You are correct. Sciencegeek was a net client.