oobiecoo
Ideal_Rock
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BuyIreland.com ?
- Thread starter oobiecoo
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bee*
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I remember when this was first launched it was on all the radio shows over here. As far as I know it''s legitimate-I think that the owner is making something like over €6 million from selling his plot of land this way. It''s a field in Co. Roscommon as far as I know. I did read somewhere that it was only a lease but I''m not sure if that''s 100% true.
Delster
Ideal_Rock
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Hi oobiecoo that''s a very sweet idea for a wedding gift
I''ve had a quick look at that site and the company seems legit. Just a couple of things:
I think they kind of overstate how you will "own" the land. You should be aware that what you will own is a leasehold interest, and not the freehold (fee simple). You will have the option to keep renewing the leasehold every 20 years. Legally it is accurate to say you will own the plot (as you will own the leasehold) but I think the average person would equate ownership with the freehold so I thought I''d best mention it. Chances are you noticed this anyways!
Also, Roscommon is not quite as easily accessible as they are making out. It''s hilarious how Irish websites aimed at the States always give everything in miles and not driving hours. Bank on it taking anything up to four hours to get there from Dublin by car. I wouldn''t in a million years attempt it by public transport. Roscommon is a pretty part of the country but it won''t look like the usual picture postcard images of Ireland. No big mountains, cliffs or ocean. It has very gentle scenery and you''ll certainly see lots of wilderness and plenty of farm animals looking at you over the hedges!
Hope that helps
I think they kind of overstate how you will "own" the land. You should be aware that what you will own is a leasehold interest, and not the freehold (fee simple). You will have the option to keep renewing the leasehold every 20 years. Legally it is accurate to say you will own the plot (as you will own the leasehold) but I think the average person would equate ownership with the freehold so I thought I''d best mention it. Chances are you noticed this anyways!
Also, Roscommon is not quite as easily accessible as they are making out. It''s hilarious how Irish websites aimed at the States always give everything in miles and not driving hours. Bank on it taking anything up to four hours to get there from Dublin by car. I wouldn''t in a million years attempt it by public transport. Roscommon is a pretty part of the country but it won''t look like the usual picture postcard images of Ireland. No big mountains, cliffs or ocean. It has very gentle scenery and you''ll certainly see lots of wilderness and plenty of farm animals looking at you over the hedges!
Hope that helps
oobiecoo
Ideal_Rock
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oobiecoo
Ideal_Rock
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I did notice the "leasehold" part... I''m not sure of the difference so I''ll have to do some research on that. I''m definitely not familiar with Ireland so I was kind of wondering about the area that the land is located in. I don''t mind the "gentle scenery" but I don''t know about a 4 hour drive to get there. Thanks for all of the information! I wonder if there are any other websites like this one with land that is a little more easily accessible...?Date: 4/7/2008 9:14:02 AM
Author: Delster
Hi oobiecoo that''s a very sweet idea for a wedding giftI''ve had a quick look at that site and the company seems legit. Just a couple of things:
I think they kind of overstate how you will ''own'' the land. You should be aware that what you will own is a leasehold interest, and not the freehold (fee simple). You will have the option to keep renewing the leasehold every 20 years. Legally it is accurate to say you will own the plot (as you will own the leasehold) but I think the average person would equate ownership with the freehold so I thought I''d best mention it. Chances are you noticed this anyways!
Also, Roscommon is not quite as easily accessible as they are making out. It''s hilarious how Irish websites aimed at the States always give everything in miles and not driving hours. Bank on it taking anything up to four hours to get there from Dublin by car. I wouldn''t in a million years attempt it by public transport. Roscommon is a pretty part of the country but it won''t look like the usual picture postcard images of Ireland. No big mountains, cliffs or ocean. It has very gentle scenery and you''ll certainly see lots of wilderness and plenty of farm animals looking at you over the hedges!
Hope that helps
Delster
Ideal_Rock
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Basically it means you are renting the land from the company, rather than buying it from them. The lease has a 20 year term and (apparently) you have the option to renew an infinite number of times (I''d be doubtful about this, you''d have to get the legal docs checked out). You are free to sell / transfer the lease to another person if you wish. It seems like you wouldn''t ever have the option to purchase the freehold and own the land outright.
I did a double check on the travel times using the AA routeplanner and they give about two and a half hours from either Dublin or Shannon airport. I always add at least an hour onto anything they tell you on the routeplanners as driving in Ireland always takes longer than you''d think.
Delster
Ideal_Rock
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A quick Google search dug up these people who are using land in Wicklow (right beside Dublin and some beautiful mountain and seaside scenery): Hibernia Heritage It's a less glossy website than the other people, but from a quick perusal of the FAQs it appears their product is actually a freehold, not a lease.
ETA - but they appear to be using land in the grounds of Loftus Hall, reputedly Ireland's most haunted property! In case it might bother you, I'd best mention that I believe Loftus Hall has a strong folklore association with the Devil... I think they do holidays there. 'Most Haunted' and murder mystery type weekends. I could be wrong about that though!
buyireland
Rough_Rock
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Hello,
I noticed this thread is linked from Google, and as a co-founder of BuyIreland.com felt I should post a clarification on a couple of the issues you raised.
Conveyance (property) law in Ireland can be quite complex and there are different types of land that have different laws surrounding the transfer of ownership.
The land that BuyIreland.com is selling is not freehold, but is not simply a 20 year leasehold either. The reasons for this are threefold:
1. With a number of different people owning the different plots of land, and visiting their plots, if we sold freehold ownership then landowners could compromise the untouched natural beauty of the area by erecting flag poles, digging large holes, etc. The idea behind BuyIreland.com is not to sell property that people may wish to live on or place memorials like a graveyard, but to allow people to own a small plot of land in the middle of an unspoilt area of rural Ireland. Every land owner should be free to enjoy their land in its rural setting, so we must restrict what people do on their plot in order for this to be possible. We often refer people who are looking for larger plots of land to other property websites such as MyHome.ie or Daft.ie.
2. The 20 year leasehold ownership that we sell is renewable AT NO CHARGE after 20 years, and again indefinitely after that in periods of 20 years. Our aim is not to restrict the term of ownership to 20 years, but to work within the limitations of the leasehold ownership laws. We will email every land owner when their 20 year term is approaching and ask them to renew their leasehold by notifying us they wish to do so (by email, fax, letter, etc.). Details of this requirement are also clearly laid out in the deed documentation that accompanies every order.
3. The cost of registering the land with the land registry in Ireland are prohibitively high - many hundreds of euro. As the vast majority of our customers are looking for a unique and special gift, the actual registration of the ownership with the government is not important. However, our land owners are more than welcome to submit the registration documents to the land registry in Dublin and pay the fees themselves if they wish, and we can put land owners in contact with a solicitor who can assist with this if they wish. The fact is that most of our customers will have no interest in doing this, so by asking our customers to get in touch every 20 years this gives us a way of keeping our database of land owners up to date, in case we ever need to contact them. Otherwise, there would be no way to encourage people to update their contact information with us.
In regard to the other point about the time it takes to travel from Dublin, the AA site is quite accurate, but in this case has over estimated the length of time it takes to reach the property (unless of course you travel via Dublin in the middle of rush hour when things can be very slow!). Generally, it takes about 2 hours to get there from Dublin, and about the same from Shannon. We chose this location for BuyIreland.com so that it would be relatively accessible from any part of Ireland.
I have tried to be as frank and open as I can with the information above. At BuyIreland.com we have absolutely nothing to hide - we are a very small business selling small plots of land to people who have a love of Ireland. We're not trying to scam anybody and are always happy to answer any and all questions people may have, before and after they place an order. Also, remember that we offer a 100% money back guarantee - if people aren't completely satisfied we offer them a full refund. The testimonials on our website are all from genuine customers
Thanks,
John Beckett
Co-founder
BuyIreland.com
I noticed this thread is linked from Google, and as a co-founder of BuyIreland.com felt I should post a clarification on a couple of the issues you raised.
Conveyance (property) law in Ireland can be quite complex and there are different types of land that have different laws surrounding the transfer of ownership.
The land that BuyIreland.com is selling is not freehold, but is not simply a 20 year leasehold either. The reasons for this are threefold:
1. With a number of different people owning the different plots of land, and visiting their plots, if we sold freehold ownership then landowners could compromise the untouched natural beauty of the area by erecting flag poles, digging large holes, etc. The idea behind BuyIreland.com is not to sell property that people may wish to live on or place memorials like a graveyard, but to allow people to own a small plot of land in the middle of an unspoilt area of rural Ireland. Every land owner should be free to enjoy their land in its rural setting, so we must restrict what people do on their plot in order for this to be possible. We often refer people who are looking for larger plots of land to other property websites such as MyHome.ie or Daft.ie.
2. The 20 year leasehold ownership that we sell is renewable AT NO CHARGE after 20 years, and again indefinitely after that in periods of 20 years. Our aim is not to restrict the term of ownership to 20 years, but to work within the limitations of the leasehold ownership laws. We will email every land owner when their 20 year term is approaching and ask them to renew their leasehold by notifying us they wish to do so (by email, fax, letter, etc.). Details of this requirement are also clearly laid out in the deed documentation that accompanies every order.
3. The cost of registering the land with the land registry in Ireland are prohibitively high - many hundreds of euro. As the vast majority of our customers are looking for a unique and special gift, the actual registration of the ownership with the government is not important. However, our land owners are more than welcome to submit the registration documents to the land registry in Dublin and pay the fees themselves if they wish, and we can put land owners in contact with a solicitor who can assist with this if they wish. The fact is that most of our customers will have no interest in doing this, so by asking our customers to get in touch every 20 years this gives us a way of keeping our database of land owners up to date, in case we ever need to contact them. Otherwise, there would be no way to encourage people to update their contact information with us.
In regard to the other point about the time it takes to travel from Dublin, the AA site is quite accurate, but in this case has over estimated the length of time it takes to reach the property (unless of course you travel via Dublin in the middle of rush hour when things can be very slow!). Generally, it takes about 2 hours to get there from Dublin, and about the same from Shannon. We chose this location for BuyIreland.com so that it would be relatively accessible from any part of Ireland.
I have tried to be as frank and open as I can with the information above. At BuyIreland.com we have absolutely nothing to hide - we are a very small business selling small plots of land to people who have a love of Ireland. We're not trying to scam anybody and are always happy to answer any and all questions people may have, before and after they place an order. Also, remember that we offer a 100% money back guarantee - if people aren't completely satisfied we offer them a full refund. The testimonials on our website are all from genuine customers
Thanks,
John Beckett
Co-founder
BuyIreland.com
Smurfysmiles
Ideal_Rock
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Steel
Ideal_Rock
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buyireland
Rough_Rock
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Hi Steel,
Let me address your points individually here:
1. When setting up BuyIreland.com we consulted one of the most respected legal firms in Ireland (Beauchamps Solicitors), and they advised us on the exact structure we should use for the business. Unfortunately I am not qualified to debate the merits or otherwise of different legal structures for a scheme such as BuyIreland.com, but the very clear advice that we received was that a renewable lease was the most appropriate and legally sound manner in which to offer the land for sale in this way.
2. The deeds that are part of the package that people receive when they purchase a plot contain very significant detail on how the leasehold operates. We do not OBLIGE a land owner to renew their plot (what if they no longer want the plot?) but we make it very clear that there is no charge for renewing the plot. Legally we document that there is a charge of 1 cent to do so, but we do not collect this. The reason we need to include the 1 cent charge is that legally we were advised that we cannot renew a legal contract without ''consideration'', however we were also advised that we do not need to seek or collect this. Common sense dictates that the cost of collecting 1 cent would be more than 1 cent in any case. We also confirm this with our land owners so that there can never be a claim that by not paying us the 1 cent the land owner is not fulfilling their obligations under the lease renewal contract. I can also confirm that we NEVER charge land owners for renewing their plot - either after the initial 20 years, or after any of the subsequant 20 year periods. The initial fee is the only money they ever need to pay in relation to their ownership of the plot.
3. I''m afraid I disagree with your view that the land registry fees are not prohibitively high. Given that this is a fun, novelty gift for most people who purchase it, forcing them to spend EUR1250 to register a piece of land that cost less that $50 would not be sensible or reasonable. As I pointed out before, if people with to register the land themselves we are more than happy to facilitate this by putting them in contact with a solicitor. As I also said before, if people are looking for a larger plot of land to own/live on/etc. we direct them to one of the other property websites such as MyHome.ie or Daft.ie.
Finally, in relation to your point about the acre of land being sold for so much money, you are not considering some very important points. Firstly, all the plots are individually accessible without ''trespassing'' on other people''s land, so we are only selling about half of the actual land to faciliate this (another legal requirement we were advised of). Secondly, this is not a straightforward property transaction - we are effectively selling a product. There are all the associated costs of running this business - from purchasing the materials, land maintenance, postage, staff, insurance, advertising, etc., etc., etc. I only wish it were as profitable as your calculations suggest!
Best regards,
John.
Let me address your points individually here:
1. When setting up BuyIreland.com we consulted one of the most respected legal firms in Ireland (Beauchamps Solicitors), and they advised us on the exact structure we should use for the business. Unfortunately I am not qualified to debate the merits or otherwise of different legal structures for a scheme such as BuyIreland.com, but the very clear advice that we received was that a renewable lease was the most appropriate and legally sound manner in which to offer the land for sale in this way.
2. The deeds that are part of the package that people receive when they purchase a plot contain very significant detail on how the leasehold operates. We do not OBLIGE a land owner to renew their plot (what if they no longer want the plot?) but we make it very clear that there is no charge for renewing the plot. Legally we document that there is a charge of 1 cent to do so, but we do not collect this. The reason we need to include the 1 cent charge is that legally we were advised that we cannot renew a legal contract without ''consideration'', however we were also advised that we do not need to seek or collect this. Common sense dictates that the cost of collecting 1 cent would be more than 1 cent in any case. We also confirm this with our land owners so that there can never be a claim that by not paying us the 1 cent the land owner is not fulfilling their obligations under the lease renewal contract. I can also confirm that we NEVER charge land owners for renewing their plot - either after the initial 20 years, or after any of the subsequant 20 year periods. The initial fee is the only money they ever need to pay in relation to their ownership of the plot.
3. I''m afraid I disagree with your view that the land registry fees are not prohibitively high. Given that this is a fun, novelty gift for most people who purchase it, forcing them to spend EUR1250 to register a piece of land that cost less that $50 would not be sensible or reasonable. As I pointed out before, if people with to register the land themselves we are more than happy to facilitate this by putting them in contact with a solicitor. As I also said before, if people are looking for a larger plot of land to own/live on/etc. we direct them to one of the other property websites such as MyHome.ie or Daft.ie.
Finally, in relation to your point about the acre of land being sold for so much money, you are not considering some very important points. Firstly, all the plots are individually accessible without ''trespassing'' on other people''s land, so we are only selling about half of the actual land to faciliate this (another legal requirement we were advised of). Secondly, this is not a straightforward property transaction - we are effectively selling a product. There are all the associated costs of running this business - from purchasing the materials, land maintenance, postage, staff, insurance, advertising, etc., etc., etc. I only wish it were as profitable as your calculations suggest!
Best regards,
John.
Italiahaircolor
Ideal_Rock
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I wanted to just thank you, Oobiecoo...
I just ordered a piece of land for my friends daughter. She and I aren''t speaking right now, but she is Irish and it has always been a dream of hers to go to Ireland, she wanted her daughter to experience that, to have a piece of that. When I stumbled upon this thread I was beyond thrilled. I''d been contemplating sending a small christmas gift to L''s daughter, but she and I are estranged, I didn''t want it to get weird. This was the perfect solution...meaningful, sentimental and long lasting. It''s for her daughter...not anyone else...and it speaks to K''s personal history, something she''ll appreciate as she gets older I am sure. I loved everything about it, and bought in great confidence.
Thank you for bringing such a wonderful, wonderful thing to Pricescope and saving my day! I plan to frame the pictures and deed and send them right off (hopefully they will arrive before or shorting after Christmas).
I think it''s a perfect gift for anyone with a great love of Ireland...nothing could be better!
I just ordered a piece of land for my friends daughter. She and I aren''t speaking right now, but she is Irish and it has always been a dream of hers to go to Ireland, she wanted her daughter to experience that, to have a piece of that. When I stumbled upon this thread I was beyond thrilled. I''d been contemplating sending a small christmas gift to L''s daughter, but she and I are estranged, I didn''t want it to get weird. This was the perfect solution...meaningful, sentimental and long lasting. It''s for her daughter...not anyone else...and it speaks to K''s personal history, something she''ll appreciate as she gets older I am sure. I loved everything about it, and bought in great confidence.
Thank you for bringing such a wonderful, wonderful thing to Pricescope and saving my day! I plan to frame the pictures and deed and send them right off (hopefully they will arrive before or shorting after Christmas).
I think it''s a perfect gift for anyone with a great love of Ireland...nothing could be better!
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