**BUYING TOMORROW...PLEASE HELP**

[carabelle]

Hi everyone...I received some great advice before and I''d love to have your opinion once again. I''m trying to compare two diamonds. We will be purchasing from an online vendor so we have not seen them in person and do not have access to an idealscope image of either diamond - please help me decide based on the numbers:

Diamond 1:
2.17 carat (8.35 x 8.39 x 5.05)
GIA Excellent Cut
J VS2
VG Polish
VG Symmetry
Girdle: Medium to slightly think, faceted
no fluor
Table: 59%
Depth: 60.3
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavillion Angle: 40.8
HCA Ex in all categories

Diamond 2: (approx $1000 less expensive)
2.04 carat (8.11 x 8.15 x 5.04)
AGSL Ideal Cut
J SI1
Ex Polish
Ex Symmetry
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted
no fluor
Table: 56.1%
Depth: 61.9%
Pavillion Angle: 35
Crown Angle: 40.8
HCA Excellent in everything but spread

Questions:
1. How important is it to have EX polish and symmetry? Is there a noticable difference between VG and EX?
2. How much larger will Diamond 1 look compared to Diamond 2? Is it a noticable difference? (size is important to us, but we want the best combo of size and cut)
3. Is an AGSL cert better than a GIA? I''ve read that they have tougher grading techniques.


Please let me know what you think!. Thank you in advance for all your help! You guys are WONDERFUL!!

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 7/9/2009 9:49:05 AM
Author:carabelle

Questions:
1. How important is it to have EX polish and symmetry? Is there a noticable difference between VG and EX? Not to the naked eye.
2. How much larger will Diamond 1 look compared to Diamond 2? Is it a noticable difference? (size is important to us, but we want the best combo of size and cut) You would probably see a difference side by side, but have a hard time telling if they were 10in apart.
3. Is an AGSL cert better than a GIA? I''ve read that they have tougher grading techniques. AGS Ideal has tighter parameters than GIA Ex. Techniques are the same, it is just what the cutoffs are for earning the top grade.


Please let me know what you think!. Thank you in advance for all your help! You guys are WONDERFUL!!

Both are very nice diamonds by the numbers (provided the second is eye-clean). You can probably make the decision based on size vs cost.

 

[stone-cold11]

Is the AGSL report a diamond quality document or diamond quality report? That is an important difference and how the resulting cut grade comes about.

0.2-0.3mm difference, maybe not noticeable unless side by side. Print out 2 circle with those average diameter and compare them.

 

[carabelle]

Thanks to both of you for your quick responses! Diamond 2 is eye-clean.

Stone-Cold, the AGSL Report is titled "Diamond Quality Report" (not document). Would you mind explaining the difference?

We''ve been leaning towards Diamond 1 all along, but I came across Diamond 2 and wanted to run it by the forum since I had read that AGS had tighter parameters on one of the threads here.

 

[Sugardiamonds]

Good Morning!

Only 1 out of 5 GIA EXCELLENT grades will merit an AGS Ideal cut. AGS grades their Ideal cuts based
on total light return. GIA does not take that three dimensional model into account and grades their
EXCELLENT grades based on a broader spectrum of numbers..... what that means is that the AGS
grade of Ideal is more stringent. How important is that to you? Only you know the answer.


I am assuming that in diamond number two you have the Crown and Pavilion angles dimensins listed flip-flopped by
mistake. ....

Here is just a small observation on my part;

It really would be nice to see an ASET image of both diamonds before purchasing. Even a small
amount of light leakage will make your diamond seem smaller in everyday lights.

If you dont'' have access to the ASET images, which sounds like you may not, make sure the
return policy is to your satisfaction.

Sugardiamonds

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/9/2009 10:02:43 AM
Author: carabelle
Thanks to both of you for your quick responses! Diamond 2 is eye-clean.

Stone-Cold, the AGSL Report is titled 'Diamond Quality Report' (not document). Would you mind explaining the difference?

We've been leaning towards Diamond 1 all along, but I came across Diamond 2 and wanted to run it by the forum since I had read that AGS had tighter parameters on one of the threads here.

Ok, as I thought when the Polish/Symm is Ex and cut grade is Ideal. AGS DQD will not give an Ideal cut grade to a stone with just Ex in polish or symm as the top grade is Ideal. Is the Cut grade listed on the report? Or is the cut grade given by the vendor?

A DQR report should not have a cut grade unless it is the new Gold report format, and that cut grade is based on proportion, similar to what GIA use but with slightly different criteria.

If it is a DQD report, the cut grade is based on a computer simulation of the cut performance exact diamond model, so it will be much more accurate. The new format of this report is the Platinum report format and sometimes will include the computer generate ASET image of the stone in question.

So if a stone comes with a DQD, you are more likely to get a good performing stone than if it comes with a DQR. But AGS has less rounding of the numbers than GIA which is something for them even with the DQR.

Both stone are good from the numbers, but have slightly different characteristics.

 

[carabelle]

Date: 7/9/2009 10:22:12 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/9/2009 10:02:43 AM
Author: carabelle
Thanks to both of you for your quick responses! Diamond 2 is eye-clean.

Stone-Cold, the AGSL Report is titled ''Diamond Quality Report'' (not document). Would you mind explaining the difference?

We''ve been leaning towards Diamond 1 all along, but I came across Diamond 2 and wanted to run it by the forum since I had read that AGS had tighter parameters on one of the threads here.

Ok, as I thought when the Polish/Symm is Ex and cut grade is Ideal. AGS DQD will not give an Ideal cut grade to a stone with just Ex in polish or symm as the top grade is Ideal. Is the Cut grade listed on the report? Or is the cut grade given by the vendor?

A DQR report should not have a cut grade unless it is the new Gold report format, and that cut grade is based on proportion, similar to what GIA use but with slightly different criteria.

If it is a DQD report, the cut grade is based on a computer simulation of the cut performance exact diamond model, so it will be much more accurate. The new format of this report is the Platinum report format and sometimes will include the computer generate ASET image of the stone in question.

So if a stone comes with a DQD, you are more likely to get a good performing stone than if it comes with a DQR. But AGS has less rounding of the numbers than GIA which is something for them even with the DQR.

Both stone are good from the numbers, but have slightly different characteristics.

Stone-Cold, you are right. The vendor lists it as Ideal, but the actual report does not list a cut grade, but simply lists Polish and Symmetry as Excellent. It sounds like what you''re saying is that because the AGS report is actually a Diamond Quality Report and not a Diamond Quality Document, I should not base my decision on the fact that AGS has tighter parameters. Am I correct in my assumption?

We really are just trying to make the best decision taking all factors into consideration. Cut is our number one priority, but we''re trying to get the best balance of cut, size and price (our price range is under $13,000 for the stone). You mentioned that both stones have slightly different characteristics. Is there a way to recommend one over the other without viewing an Idealscope image?

 

[carabelle]

Date: 7/9/2009 10:13:54 AM
Author: Sugardiamonds
Good Morning!

Only 1 out of 5 GIA EXCELLENT grades will merit an AGS Ideal cut. AGS grades their Ideal cuts based
on total light return. GIA does not take that three dimensional model into account and grades their
EXCELLENT grades based on a broader spectrum of numbers..... what that means is that the AGS
grade of Ideal is more stringent. How important is that to you? Only you know the answer.


I am assuming that in diamond number two you have the Crown and Pavilion angles dimensins listed flip-flopped by
mistake. ....

Here is just a small observation on my part;

It really would be nice to see an ASET image of both diamonds before purchasing. Even a small
amount of light leakage will make your diamond seem smaller in everyday lights.

If you dont'' have access to the ASET images, which sounds like you may not, make sure the
return policy is to your satisfaction.

Sugardiamonds

Sherry,

Thanks for your help! And yes, I mixed up the crown and pavillion angles in Diamond 2...sorry about that! The venor does not provide ASET images but has a great return policy. I''m sure we''ll love both diamonds (as neither my future fiance nor I are experts of any sort), but I''m trying to make the most educated decision upfront.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/9/2009 10:38:00 AM
Author: carabelle

Stone-Cold, you are right. The vendor lists it as Ideal, but the actual report does not list a cut grade, but simply lists Polish and Symmetry as Excellent. It sounds like what you''re saying is that because the AGS report is actually a Diamond Quality Report and not a Diamond Quality Document, I should not base my decision on the fact that AGS has tighter parameters. Am I correct in my assumption?

We really are just trying to make the best decision taking all factors into consideration. Cut is our number one priority, but we''re trying to get the best balance of cut, size and price (our price range is under $13,000 for the stone). You mentioned that both stones have slightly different characteristics. Is there a way to recommend one over the other without viewing an Idealscope image?

Yap, based it the same as the GIA.

Take a look at this article.
http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/72/1/Laboratory-Cut-Grades-What-the-report-doesn%e2%80%99t-show.aspx

Stone #4 has approximately the same proportion as the GIA stone.
Stone #2 is approximately the same as the AGS stone. Slightly larger table and higher crown.

Just different. Some like 60/60 proportion, some don''t.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/9/2009 9:49:05 AM
Author:carabelle
Hi everyone...I received some great advice before and I''d love to have your opinion once again. I''m trying to compare two diamonds. We will be purchasing from an online vendor so we have not seen them in person and do not have access to an idealscope image of either diamond - please help me decide based on the numbers:

Diamond 1:
2.17 carat (8.35 x 8.39 x 5.05)
GIA Excellent Cut
J VS2
VG Polish
VG Symmetry
Girdle: Medium to slightly think, faceted
no fluor
Table: 59%
Depth: 60.3
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavillion Angle: 40.8
HCA Ex in all categories

Diamond 2: (approx $1000 less expensive)
2.04 carat (8.11 x 8.15 x 5.04)
AGSL Ideal Cut
J SI1
Ex Polish
Ex Symmetry
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted
no fluor
Table: 56.1%
Depth: 61.9%
Pavillion Angle: 35
Crown Angle: 40.8
HCA Excellent in everything but spread

Questions:
1. How important is it to have EX polish and symmetry? Is there a noticable difference between VG and EX? Not normally to the naked untrained eye.
2. How much larger will Diamond 1 look compared to Diamond 2? Is it a noticable difference? (size is important to us, but we want the best combo of size and cut) There would be a slight difference on direct comparison.
3. Is an AGSL cert better than a GIA? I''ve read that they have tougher grading techniques. Some prefer AGS compared to GIA as AGS grade cut more strictly in some cases than GIA.


Please let me know what you think!. Thank you in advance for all your help! You guys are WONDERFUL!!

I would prefer diamond 1.

 

[carabelle]

Date: 7/9/2009 12:19:00 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/9/2009 9:49:05 AM
Author:carabelle
Hi everyone...I received some great advice before and I''d love to have your opinion once again. I''m trying to compare two diamonds. We will be purchasing from an online vendor so we have not seen them in person and do not have access to an idealscope image of either diamond - please help me decide based on the numbers:

Diamond 1:
2.17 carat (8.35 x 8.39 x 5.05)
GIA Excellent Cut
J VS2
VG Polish
VG Symmetry
Girdle: Medium to slightly think, faceted
no fluor
Table: 59%
Depth: 60.3
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavillion Angle: 40.8
HCA Ex in all categories

Diamond 2: (approx $1000 less expensive)
2.04 carat (8.11 x 8.15 x 5.04)
AGSL Ideal Cut
J SI1
Ex Polish
Ex Symmetry
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted
no fluor
Table: 56.1%
Depth: 61.9%
Pavillion Angle: 35
Crown Angle: 40.8
HCA Excellent in everything but spread

Questions:
1. How important is it to have EX polish and symmetry? Is there a noticable difference between VG and EX? Not normally to the naked untrained eye.
2. How much larger will Diamond 1 look compared to Diamond 2? Is it a noticable difference? (size is important to us, but we want the best combo of size and cut) There would be a slight difference on direct comparison.
3. Is an AGSL cert better than a GIA? I''ve read that they have tougher grading techniques. Some prefer AGS compared to GIA as AGS grade cut more strictly in some cases than GIA.


Please let me know what you think!. Thank you in advance for all your help! You guys are WONDERFUL!!

I would prefer diamond 1.

Hi Lorelei, Thanks for your opinion!! That''s the way we''ve been leaning, but it''s difficult to decide having not seen either!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/9/2009 2:44:41 PM
Author: carabelle

Date: 7/9/2009 12:19:00 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/9/2009 9:49:05 AM
Author:carabelle
Hi everyone...I received some great advice before and I''d love to have your opinion once again. I''m trying to compare two diamonds. We will be purchasing from an online vendor so we have not seen them in person and do not have access to an idealscope image of either diamond - please help me decide based on the numbers:

Diamond 1:
2.17 carat (8.35 x 8.39 x 5.05)
GIA Excellent Cut
J VS2
VG Polish
VG Symmetry
Girdle: Medium to slightly think, faceted
no fluor
Table: 59%
Depth: 60.3
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavillion Angle: 40.8
HCA Ex in all categories

Diamond 2: (approx $1000 less expensive)
2.04 carat (8.11 x 8.15 x 5.04)
AGSL Ideal Cut
J SI1
Ex Polish
Ex Symmetry
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted
no fluor
Table: 56.1%
Depth: 61.9%
Pavillion Angle: 35
Crown Angle: 40.8
HCA Excellent in everything but spread

Questions:
1. How important is it to have EX polish and symmetry? Is there a noticable difference between VG and EX? Not normally to the naked untrained eye.
2. How much larger will Diamond 1 look compared to Diamond 2? Is it a noticable difference? (size is important to us, but we want the best combo of size and cut) There would be a slight difference on direct comparison.
3. Is an AGSL cert better than a GIA? I''ve read that they have tougher grading techniques. Some prefer AGS compared to GIA as AGS grade cut more strictly in some cases than GIA.


Please let me know what you think!. Thank you in advance for all your help! You guys are WONDERFUL!!

I would prefer diamond 1.

Hi Lorelei, Thanks for your opinion!! That''s the way we''ve been leaning, but it''s difficult to decide having not seen either!

I know it is hard! The second diamond is a borderline steep deep with the angles so although it could be fine especially as GIA round the angles, it could show leakage if the angles are actually steeper or not if shallower. An Idealscope is the best way but as we can''t get one, even though the table is a little larger on the first one that is the one I would probably pick. Make sure the seller has a good return policy so you are covered.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/9/2009 2:50:47 PM
Author: Lorelei
I know it is hard! The second diamond is a borderline steep deep with the angles so although it could be fine especially as GIA round the angles, it could show leakage if the angles are actually steeper or not if shallower. An Idealscope is the best way but as we can''t get one, even though the table is a little larger on the first one that is the one I would probably pick. Make sure the seller has a good return policy so you are covered.

Lorelei, the second stone is a AGS DQR report.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/9/2009 2:52:37 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/9/2009 2:50:47 PM
Author: Lorelei
I know it is hard! The second diamond is a borderline steep deep with the angles so although it could be fine especially as GIA round the angles, it could show leakage if the angles are actually steeper or not if shallower. An Idealscope is the best way but as we can''t get one, even though the table is a little larger on the first one that is the one I would probably pick. Make sure the seller has a good return policy so you are covered.

Lorelei, the second stone is a AGS DQR report.

Ah yes, so it is - doesn''t change my opinion though.

 

[stone-cold11]

Well, they don't round the numbers that much, just to 1 decimal place, for one thing, although it is still an average.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/9/2009 2:56:41 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Well, they don't round the numbers that much, just to 1 decimal place, for one thing, although it is still an average.

I know that, however I have also seen some of these combos from AGS with definite leakage in IS.

 

[carabelle]

Date: 7/9/2009 3:08:06 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/9/2009 2:56:41 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Well, they don''t round the numbers that much, just to 1 decimal place, for one thing, although it is still an average.

I know that, however I have also seen some of these combos from AGS with definite leakage in IS.

Lorelei and Stone-Cold...as you all are the experts, I''m sure you noticed I mixed up the crown and pavillion angles on Diamond Number 2. It should be Crown Angle: 35 and Pavillion Angle: 40.8.

In any case, Lorelei, you definitley prefer Diamond 1 over Diamond 2? Stone-Cold are you leaning towards Diamond 2??

Return policy is good, although I don''t think the two of us would ever be able to tell the difference unless we had them side-by-side which is not really an option for us

So I''m trying to make the best decision before we purchase.

 

[stone-cold11]

Nope, I am neutral. Both look good to me from the numbers.

Have you look at the link I provided above?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/9/2009 4:49:00 PM
Author: carabelle

Date: 7/9/2009 3:08:06 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/9/2009 2:56:41 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Well, they don''t round the numbers that much, just to 1 decimal place, for one thing, although it is still an average.

I know that, however I have also seen some of these combos from AGS with definite leakage in IS.

Lorelei and Stone-Cold...as you all are the experts, I''m sure you noticed I mixed up the crown and pavillion angles on Diamond Number 2. It should be Crown Angle: 35 and Pavillion Angle: 40.8. Yes its fine, don''t worry.

In any case, Lorelei, you definitley prefer Diamond 1 over Diamond 2? Without images yes, the second diamond could be a screamer but without images I have seen a few recently with these angles both GIA and AGS with definite leakage in Idealscope and ASET, hence my caution. Chances are the second could be a great stone but there is a possibility also that there could be leakage. If you preferred that one then if you as you are covered with a return policy you could order it and see what you think.
Return policy is good, although I don''t think the two of us would ever be able to tell the difference unless we had them side-by-side which is not really an option for us

So I''m trying to make the best decision before we purchase.

 

[carabelle]

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone for your help! My boyfriend proposed (with Diamond 1) on Wednesday! I will try to get some pictures up here; the stone is BEAUTIFUL!

Thanks again, I''m so happy I found Pricescope!!!

 

[Lorelei]

MANY congrats Cara!!!

 

[stone-cold11]

Congrats.

 

[jet2ks]

Congrats! Looking forward to the pics.