Buying Royal Asscher Online & Comparison to BlueNile Signature Asscher

[hongkongAsscher]

Dear all,

I''ve been learning a lot about Royal Asschers from this forum and have decided that it''s the cut for me. However, living in HK makes it very challenging to find standard Asschers let alone a real Royal Asscher to look at. We''ve called and spoken to local dealers and no one carries them or has ideas on how to source them (nor interested to help). So the next best thing is for us to buy a Royal Asscher online.

We would greatly appreciate your advice on:

1) Which online diamond dealer has a good selection of Royal Asschers (we''ve only come across BlueNile and James Allen so far)?

2) Has anyone bought or have photos of a BlueNile Signature Asscher? They claim to be different than standard asschers but offer no photos on their site for the consumer. We really want to know if it comes close to a Royal Asscher.

3) If we find an Asscher with a GIA report that describes it as "Cut-Cornered Square Step Cut" does this automatically mean it is an authentic Royal Asscher? In which case, will it come with a Royal Asscher certificate as well? I ask this because I have seen such diamonds on James Allen. For example the attached GIA cert image.

Thank you for your help!

Best,
Grace

 

[hongkongAsscher]

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 5/11/2010 1:55:24 AM
Author:hongkongAsscher
Dear all,

I''ve been learning a lot about Royal Asschers from this forum and have decided that it''s the cut for me. However, living in HK makes it very challenging to find standard Asschers let alone a real Royal Asscher to look at. We''ve called and spoken to local dealers and no one carries them or has ideas on how to source them (nor interested to help). So the next best thing is for us to buy a Royal Asscher online.

We would greatly appreciate your advice on:

1) Which online diamond dealer has a good selection of Royal Asschers (we''ve only come across BlueNile and James Allen so far)?

2) Has anyone bought or have photos of a BlueNile Signature Asscher? They claim to be different than standard asschers but offer no photos on their site for the consumer. We really want to know if it comes close to a Royal Asscher.

3) If we find an Asscher with a GIA report that describes it as ''Cut-Cornered Square Step Cut'' does this automatically mean it is an authentic Royal Asscher? In which case, will it come with a Royal Asscher certificate as well? I ask this because I have seen such diamonds on James Allen. For example the attached GIA cert image.

Thank you for your help!

Best,
Grace

So you want a Royal Asscher because you like the narrow step look or just want cut consistancy?
I would say working with a vendor like GOG will ensure you get the best cut asscher available and you can decide whether you think paying the premium for a true RA is worth it.
Certificate names and plots especially from GIA will not help you in this task.

See here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/royal-asscher.41261/ and look at strmrdr''s post on the appearance of asschers. RA would have the narrow step look on the far right due to the extra steps.



3) No

 

[kenny]

Here's a link to the page of Royal Asscher's website that lists their US retailers.
Near the right side of the link are other countries.

Click

To my knowledge no online vendor sells them.
The cut of every Octavia will be consistent and fantastic since it is a controlled branded cut.
I love this because looking for a generic Asscher is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Have you see the Octavia Asscher?
Click on the links in my signature line below.

 

[hongkongAsscher]

Thanks ChunkyCushionLover.

I like the RA both for its look and cut consistency. Esp when we now have to buy it online. Even with the few asschers we''ve seen here in HK they''ve varied so much that we can''t really trust ourselves to buy without seeing it. The RA should give us a peace of mind that the cut will be great.

Just had a look at GOG. They do have some Asschers but not the colour range we''re focusing on (D,E,F; VS1 and above). Thanks though!

 

[hongkongAsscher]

Thanks Kenny. I''ve looked at their distributors around the world -- none in HK (closest is Japan but not ideal either).

I didn''t see any signature or links. Could you pls send that again? Thanks.

 

[kenny]

Besides the Octavia I also bought this 2.26 ct F VVS2 from GOG.

GOG has a cutter that really knows how to cut superb asschers.
I'd contact GOG and perhaps if you are not in a hurry they can get a stone cut for you.

Both of my asscher purchases from GOG went well even though I was a difficult and fussy customer.
I feel they are very reputable.

 

[kenny]

Date: 5/11/2010 2:42:34 AM
Author: hongkongAsscher
Thanks Kenny. I've looked at their distributors around the world -- none in HK (closest is Japan but not ideal either).


I didn't see any signature or links. Could you pls send that again? Thanks.

Here is the thread about my Octavia Asscher.
Pics start at the bottom of page 3.

Click

Also, if you are on Rocky Talk and are looking at the list of threads (with no thread open), I believe there are currently pics of my Octavia on the right side of the screen that you can click on to enlarge them.

 

[hongkongAsscher]

WOW Kenny. The Octavia Asscher is blinding!
But I love your 2.26ct the most and am looking for something just like it! OK I guess I''ll have to email GOG coz their current diamond search doesn''t come up with anything that I''m looking for. Thanks for the links.

 

[Imdanny]

There is someone who sells Royal Asschers online, but I forgot who. Neiman Marcus? Macy's? Somebody.

Edit: here it is:


http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod39440012&parentId=cat21790732&masterId=cat21750740&index=12&cmCat=cat000000cat2830732cat14460734cat21750740cat21790732

 

[hongkongAsscher]

Thanks Imdanny - I checked NM online out. But they only have smaller RAs...very few selection actually.

I did however find a jeweler in Amsterdam! They sent me three selections and I''m interested in this one (HRD report attached).

Is this a good Royal Asscher?? And good price too? I would be paying less the VAT.

Cut: RAC
Weight: 1.65ct
Colour: F
Clarity: VVS2
Certificates: GIA or HR and Asscher
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Price in Euro: 24.750,- Euro incl VAT (excl. VAT 20.798,32 Euro)
Price in US Dollar (Exchange rate 12th May. 2010): 31.680,- Dollar incl VAT
(excl. VAT 26.621,84 US Dollar)

 

[hongkongAsscher]

BTW, I am in touch with JRDunn and they say they will get back to me on my RA requirements so we''ll see if they have anything.

I have read here on PS that GOG is a good source of Asschers and Royal Asschers -- would there be someone in particular I can seek out when I call? Since I''m calling long distance it''d save me a lot of time know who to speak to. Thank you!

 

[hongkongAsscher]

I need help with below Asschers. I was secretly hoping that because two of them were labeled "Corner Cut Step Cut" they would look very similar to a Royal Asscher. But as the photos show, they''re not very good quality at all (in my opinion).

What do you think?

 

[hongkongAsscher]

E-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-1.7-Carat-Asscher Image

 

[hongkongAsscher]

OK I''m not going to post the other photos just because I''ve decided they don''t look so great to me and I''m not even going to consider them anymore.

But quick question, do the more ''black / dark'' areas on the Asscher (as seen on the previous photo) mean a poorly cut diamond? Or simply a bad photographer?

 

[kenny]

At GOG I'd talk to Jonathan, whom I believe is the owner.
I don't think GOG carries the Royal Asscher (RA) line.
My 2.26 ct is not a RA.
It has three rows of crown and pavilion facets, for a total of 58 facets.
RA's have five rows of each for a total of 74 facets.

More facets mean more, but smaller, flashes of light.
I believe the angles being just right is much more important than how many rows of facets an asscher has.
If you compared equally superbly-cut 3-row, 4-row and 5-row asschers side by side they would certainly look different, but one design is not, by definition, superior.
The look you prefer is your personal preference.

Keep in mind a 5-row RA will have smaller flashes.
Since I'm in my 50s I may find them too small for my aging eyes to resolve.
That's why I love my 3-row with its large broad facets.
Also the asscher hall of mirrors effect in smaller diamonds may be harder to resolve in a 5-row RA than in a 3-row asscher of the same weight.

Selecting a non branded asscher is very difficult, mysterious even, to me at least
Few experts here say very much in response compared to the input you get on round diamonds.
If you want input here you need to post crown and pavilion angles, depth and table %, Idealscope and ASET pics.
All these help crack the code of the good asscher - but personally if I was paying the premium for a RA I'd just trust that the cut is excellent.

We have a member here, KarlK, who used to be able to hold our hands selecting asschers, but since he designed the Octavia (which is now for sale at GOG) Pricescope ethics rules for diamond professionals now somewhat limit what he is allowed to say.
But he can make some comments and I hope he will here.

Black in a photo in not necessarily bad.
If there was no black it would be like looking at a flat white mirror.
Alternating black and white comes from the contrast inherent in the cut pattern and actually are useful in evaluating cut.

As for whether a particular RA, or Octavia, or ACA or any branded cut is a good one . . . they all meet their brand's tight specs so just pick the size, color and clarity you like.

 

[kenny]

Date: 5/12/2010 10:13:26 AM
Author: hongkongAsscher
Is this a good Royal Asscher?? And good price too? I would be paying less the VAT.
Weight: 1.65ct
Colour: F
Clarity: VVS2
Certificates: GIA or HR and Asscher
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Price in Euro: 24.750,- Euro incl VAT (excl. VAT 20.798,32 Euro)
Price in US Dollar (Exchange rate 12th May. 2010): 31.680,- Dollar incl VAT
(excl. VAT 26.621,84 US Dollar)

It's hard to say whether $26,622 is a good price for a 1.65 F VVS2 RA since diamonds are not like the gold where every ounce is the same price.

To give you one data point, I will say that was almost the price of my 2.26 F VVS2 about three years ago.
RA commands a substantial premium over generic asschers like mine, though I don't know how much, perhaps 30 to 40%.

I think prices for diamonds have fallen a little compared to 3 years ago, but I hear rough resulting in polished stones over 2 ct is in short supply so perhaps those stones have gone up in price.
So I'd say if that price is high it is not high by much.

Oh and RAs are not available online, only from select brick and mortar stores.

 

[acebruin]

I got my RA from Brad and Jen at DBOF. It looks like they only have 1 left in their inventory. You might want to try to email them and ask.

http://www.dbof.com/jewelry/asscher-1-54-ct-g-vs2/

 

[kenny]

Date: 5/12/2010 2:27:37 PM
Author: acebruin
I got my RA from Brad and Jen at DBOF. It looks like they only have 1 left in their inventory. You might want to try to email them and ask.
http://www.dbof.com/jewelry/asscher-1-54-ct-g-vs2/

Very interesting . . . Royal Asschers for sale online with published prices.
DBOF actually has four RAs in their online inventory now.
I wonder if RA know this.

DBOF is asking $17,800 for the RA you mentioned, 1.54 ct G VS2, which pencils out to $11,558 per ct.
GOG has a 1.70 G VS2 (with life time guarantee so it is likely a well cut one) for $13,108, or $7710 per ct.

That means a smaller RA of identical color and clarity is 50% more expensive per carat per carat than a larger good generic.
If they were the same weight the RA premium may be even higher than 50%.

I just called DBOF and they said they are no longer an authorized RA dealer (they are not on the authorized USA dealer list at RA's website).
Perhaps RA didn't like their stones listed online.
Mike E. Asscher of the Asscher family posted here and I think he said something to that effect.

Click

 

[crown1]

Date: 5/12/2010 3:50:25 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 5/12/2010 2:27:37 PM

Author: acebruin

I got my RA from Brad and Jen at DBOF. It looks like they only have 1 left in their inventory. You might want to try to email them and ask.

http://www.dbof.com/jewelry/asscher-1-54-ct-g-vs2/

Very interesting . . . Royal Asschers for sale online with published prices.

DBOF actually has four RAs in their online inventory now.

I wonder if RA know this.


DBOF is asking $17,800 for the RA you mentioned, 1.54 ct G VS2, which pencils out to $11,558 per ct.

GOG has a 1.70 G VS2 (with life time guarantee so it is likely a well cut one) for $13,108, or $7710 per ct.


That means a smaller RA of identical color and clarity is 50% more expensive per carat per carat than a larger good generic.

If they were the same weight the RA premium may be even higher than 50%.


I just called DBOF and they said they are no longer an authorized RA dealer (they are not on the authorized USA dealer list at RA''s website).

Perhaps RA didn''t like their stones listed online.

Mike E. Asscher of the Asscher family posted here and I think he said something to that effect.


Click

kenny, what was the date of that post by mike asscher? thanks!

 

[kenny]

It was posted: 10/8/2009 9:24:41 AM


... and actually I misspoke.
Mr. Asscher said he would like to see RAs eventually sold online.

 

[hongkongAsscher]

Thank you Kenny for your insights.

Is it common for dealers to provide an Asscher''s crown and pavilion angles, depth and table %, Idealscope and ASET pics for customer? I haven''t heard or experienced this at the retail level in HK. But certainly would be great tools for the next few asschers I seriously consider.

It seems DBOF does have a few RA''s just like the 1.54ct Acebruin noted. I like that one however a tad small for my liking.

I will post photos of another one offered by DBOF. It is a 1.84 ct. VVS2 F for $26900.
I like the look of this. It is on the $$$ side for sure!! Which brings me to another question, how much can you bargain for a diamond if at all?

And for RA''s can I still ask for crown and pavilion angles, depth and table %, Idealscope and ASET pics or are they so perfect that I don''t ever need to question it??

Thanks all!

 

[hongkongAsscher]

GIA report for the above 1.84 Royal Asscher.

 

[acebruin]

thanks for the post by mike, kenny...

i didn''t catch that one before...

Date: 5/12/2010 3:50:25 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 5/12/2010 2:27:37 PM

Author: acebruin

I got my RA from Brad and Jen at DBOF. It looks like they only have 1 left in their inventory. You might want to try to email them and ask.

http://www.dbof.com/jewelry/asscher-1-54-ct-g-vs2/

Very interesting . . . Royal Asschers for sale online with published prices.

DBOF actually has four RAs in their online inventory now.

I wonder if RA know this.


DBOF is asking $17,800 for the RA you mentioned, 1.54 ct G VS2, which pencils out to $11,558 per ct.

GOG has a 1.70 G VS2 (with life time guarantee so it is likely a well cut one) for $13,108, or $7710 per ct.


That means a smaller RA of identical color and clarity is 50% more expensive per carat per carat than a larger good generic.

If they were the same weight the RA premium may be even higher than 50%.


I just called DBOF and they said they are no longer an authorized RA dealer (they are not on the authorized USA dealer list at RA''s website).

Perhaps RA didn''t like their stones listed online.

Mike E. Asscher of the Asscher family posted here and I think he said something to that effect.


Click

 

[hongkongAsscher]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to thank those of you who helped answer my questions on the RA and regular Asscher. In the end, we picked a non RA Asscher and I am very happy with it! We search high and low, and at one point, even went to Shenzhen, China (where there is a gov''t approved / designed diamond manufacturing / wholesale zone) to look...and they didn''t know what an Asscher was. It was *all* Round!!

It came down to two shops in HK. The difficulty was that each Asscher was cut so differently from the next - what I like is the corners cut deep so all eight sides measured / looked the same and this proved to be hardest. Second hardest was finding an Asscher above a F/G colour at the 1.5 to 2ct sizes. I was told by the shops that if the diamond had better colour and at that size, it''d be cut into a round. Is this true? That does makes sense, the diamond cutter would want to make a rock that''s higher in demand to sell fastest. Oh well.

It was all a VERY fun experience...I have so much more to learn about diamonds so until the next rock(s), here is my first

 

[hongkongAsscher]

ooops. here is the photo.

 

[stone-cold11]

Congrats.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 6/1/2010 12:15:49 PM
Author: hongkongAsscher
ooops. here is the photo.

Looks like a nice bright asscher and I like your refined style of setting, congratulations.

 

[Hest88]

Gorgeous! That''s a nice, substantial size for your finger too!

 

[kenny]

Wow, congratulations.
It is very very beautiful.