Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BGM?

[kayi078]

Hi everyone, my name is josh and im from Hong Kong. Diamond in Hong Kong's retail store is 30% more expensive than online shop so i may choose to buy the engagement ring online. I did a little research and learned some basic knowledge about 4C and cutting of a diamond. My budget is $12,500 USD and Im leaning to get

1.35 or 1.4 ct G/F VS2 3ex none excellent cut (HCA score <2)
or
1.5 ct G VS2 3ex none ideal cut (HCA score <4.5)

My question is....how do i know the diamond i get online is 100% free of green, brown and milky tint? As far as my understanding the color and certificate doesnt mean it is free of BGM. As i'm an international buyer the return is not free for me so i feel a little insecure.

Please accept my apology for bad grammar. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Hi everyone, my name is josh and im from Hong Kong. Diamond in Hong Kong's retail store is 30% more expensive than online shop so i may choose to buy the engagement ring online. I did a little research and learned some basic knowledge about 4C and cutting of a diamond. My budget is $12,500 USD and Im leaning to get

1.35 or 1.4 ct G/F VS2 3ex none excellent cut (HCA score <2)
or
1.5 ct G VS2 3ex none ideal cut (HCA score <4.5)

My question is....how do i know the diamond i get online is 100% free of green, brown and milky tint? As far as my understanding the color and certificate doesnt mean it is free of BGM. As i'm an international buyer the return is not free for me so i feel a little insecure.

Please accept my apology for bad grammar. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

HCA score always needs to fall less than = 2 range.

BGM - you would need to ask the vendor to make sure that there was no BGM. Most of the vendors we like have pictures of the stones
so that is a good start (but I know, not everything shows up in images).

For someone like you who is overseas and does not want to have to return a stone, I suggest you work with a vendor that has the
stones in house (vs virtual stones).

These are Super Ideal Branded Stones from Whiteflash (check out all their documentation...you'll know exactly what you are getting).
Plus, you can speak to them in person for reassurance. Since their stones are in house, they can take one out and go over the stone
with you. Any stone with BGM would not pass their vetting process so not an issue.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3774791.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802450.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3801992.htm

 

[kayi078]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Thank you for your recommendation.

In whiteflash, the result for in-house is so narrow and most of it doesnt have GIA cert. only AGS, i couldnt see the inclusion location.

How about James Allen? They have HD super zoom to view the diamond in 20x or 40x. Is it possible to check BGM using james allen super zoom features? Thanks.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Thank you for your recommendation.

In whiteflash, the result for in-house is so narrow and most of it doesnt have GIA cert. only AGS, i couldnt see the inclusion location.

How about James Allen? They have HD super zoom to view the diamond in 20x or 40x. Is it possible to check BGM using james allen super zoom features? Thanks.

We consider AGS an equal if not better lab then GIA because they test for light performance. All their ACAs will have IDEAL
light performance. They do carry GIA graded stones but dont have any in your size range right now.

Click on the AGS symbol and the report should pop up. I could not get it to come up for the 1.4 G though. The report has the
clarity plot on it.

JA is fine. Most of their stones are not in house. If they are in the NY area they can call them in and get an aset for you. You can
not get an aset on the ones located overseas. These stones are not branded super ideals like the Whiteflash stones.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Hi everyone, my name is josh and im from Hong Kong. Diamond in Hong Kong's retail store is 30% more expensive than online shop so i may choose to buy the engagement ring online. I did a little research and learned some basic knowledge about 4C and cutting of a diamond. My budget is $12,500 USD and Im leaning to get

1.35 or 1.4 ct G/F VS2 3ex none excellent cut (HCA score <2)
or
1.5 ct G VS2 3ex none ideal cut (HCA score <4.5)

My question is....how do i know the diamond i get online is 100% free of green, brown and milky tint? As far as my understanding the color and certificate doesnt mean it is free of BGM. As i'm an international buyer the return is not free for me so i feel a little insecure.

Please accept my apology for bad grammar. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Kay. welcome to PS.

I know that AGS grading lab is not well known in HK compared to GIA, but I can assure you that AGS grading is on par with GIA. Here in the U.S. we treat both grading labs equally. I only buy diamonds from vendors who have their stones on hand, so they can evaluate the stone over the phone for me as we speak. If you want to stick with GIA that's fine too. I love your idea of going with a F/G VS combo.

Here are the vendors I'd recommend for top quality cut stones. I have had purchased from all 4 vendors in the past. btw; I was born in HK..

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3801992.htm

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/signature-diamonds/round#

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/?orderby=carats

http://www.goodoldgold.com/

 

[mochiko42]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Hi! I'm also in Hong Kong and I can confidently tell you that I trust AGS just as much as GIA, if not more. After being on PS and doing some research for the least 3 years, I believe that AGS gives you more detailed information about a diamond, which allows you to make a better informed decision.

I have bought diamonds from Whiteflash, Good Old Gold and also vintage diamond from Love Affair Diamonds, all are vendors commonly recommended here on PS. No problems with shipping at all. I found the customer service is better than the local stores too and the reps know what they are talking about (haha try to talk to a Chow Tai Fook store assistant about crown angle or table width or the lower girdle facets.......... )

If you're looking for a superideal diamond (ie the best of the best), the easiest and least-stressful way to buy a H&A diamond is to choose from the premium range from vendors such as Whiteflash (A Cut Above), Brian Gavin (Signature, Black), CBI, GOG (Ascendency). I believe that for these diamonds you are paying a premium but then each diamond is inspected to pass the strict grading criteria of the vendor (which is beyond AGS 000 or GIA Ex,Ex,Ex). This means that the diamonds have already been pre-screened and selected for you. If you are concerned about returns, I would stick to these premium diamonds.

I used Whiteflash to purchase a 1.3ct diamond last year and now I am upgrading to a 1.8ct. Shipping is very easy as WF sends me the prepared FedEx label and all I have to do is drop the package off at FedEx. If you are returning a diamond for refund, the shipping cost should be under US$100 (just my estimate), but considering the diamond is much cheaper than what it would cost you to get a super ideal cut diamond (i.e. Hearts on Fire or other brands) at Chow Sang Sang or other local store, even if you inspect and return a few diamonds before you find the one you like, you are still coming out ahead. One note is that when you receive the diamond you do have to pay some import/duty fees to the govt, typically it is about HK$70 or less (under US$10) depending on the value of your purchase. I would never buy diamond jewelry from the local big chains, as you're just paying for their rent!

Of course this is just my own experience buying from overseas but I hope this is helpful.


Edited to add: if you are concerned about resale, you can always send your diamond to GIA in HK later.

 

[kayi078]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Hi! I'm also in Hong Kong and I can confidently tell you that I trust AGS just as much as GIA, if not more. After being on PS and doing some research for the least 3 years, I believe that AGS gives you more detailed information about a diamond, which allows you to make a better informed decision.

I have bought diamonds from Whiteflash, Good Old Gold and also vintage diamond from Love Affair Diamonds, all are vendors commonly recommended here on PS. No problems with shipping at all. I found the customer service is better than the local stores too and the reps know what they are talking about (haha try to talk to a Chow Tai Fook store assistant about crown angle or table width or the lower girdle facets.......... )

If you're looking for a superideal diamond (ie the best of the best), the easiest and least-stressful way to buy a H&A diamond is to choose from the premium range from vendors such as Whiteflash (A Cut Above), Brian Gavin (Signature, Black), CBI, GOG (Ascendency). I believe that for these diamonds you are paying a premium but then each diamond is inspected to pass the strict grading criteria of the vendor (which is beyond AGS 000 or GIA Ex,Ex,Ex). This means that the diamonds have already been pre-screened and selected for you. If you are concerned about returns, I would stick to these premium diamonds.

I used Whiteflash to purchase a 1.3ct diamond last year and now I am upgrading to a 1.8ct. Shipping is very easy as WF sends me the prepared FedEx label and all I have to do is drop the package off at FedEx. If you are returning a diamond for refund, the shipping cost should be under US$100 (just my estimate), but considering the diamond is much cheaper than what it would cost you to get a super ideal cut diamond (i.e. Hearts on Fire or other brands) at Chow Sang Sang or other local store, even if you inspect and return a few diamonds before you find the one you like, you are still coming out ahead. One note is that when you receive the diamond you do have to pay some import/duty fees to the govt, typically it is about HK$70 or less (under US$10) depending on the value of your purchase. I would never buy diamond jewelry from the local big chains, as you're just paying for their rent!

Of course this is just my own experience buying from overseas but I hope this is helpful.


Edited to add: if you are concerned about resale, you can always send your diamond to GIA in HK later.

Would you please elaborate the import / duty fees from USA to HK? As far as my understanding the tax is 0%. Do i need to declare or do anything after i bought it online? Thanks

 

[mochiko42]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Hi! I'm also in Hong Kong and I can confidently tell you that I trust AGS just as much as GIA, if not more. After being on PS and doing some research for the least 3 years, I believe that AGS gives you more detailed information about a diamond, which allows you to make a better informed decision.

I have bought diamonds from Whiteflash, Good Old Gold and also vintage diamond from Love Affair Diamonds, all are vendors commonly recommended here on PS. No problems with shipping at all. I found the customer service is better than the local stores too and the reps know what they are talking about (haha try to talk to a Chow Tai Fook store assistant about crown angle or table width or the lower girdle facets.......... )

If you're looking for a superideal diamond (ie the best of the best), the easiest and least-stressful way to buy a H&A diamond is to choose from the premium range from vendors such as Whiteflash (A Cut Above), Brian Gavin (Signature, Black), CBI, GOG (Ascendency). I believe that for these diamonds you are paying a premium but then each diamond is inspected to pass the strict grading criteria of the vendor (which is beyond AGS 000 or GIA Ex,Ex,Ex). This means that the diamonds have already been pre-screened and selected for you. If you are concerned about returns, I would stick to these premium diamonds.

I used Whiteflash to purchase a 1.3ct diamond last year and now I am upgrading to a 1.8ct. Shipping is very easy as WF sends me the prepared FedEx label and all I have to do is drop the package off at FedEx. If you are returning a diamond for refund, the shipping cost should be under US$100 (just my estimate), but considering the diamond is much cheaper than what it would cost you to get a super ideal cut diamond (i.e. Hearts on Fire or other brands) at Chow Sang Sang or other local store, even if you inspect and return a few diamonds before you find the one you like, you are still coming out ahead. One note is that when you receive the diamond you do have to pay some import/duty fees to the govt, typically it is about HK$70 or less (under US$10) depending on the value of your purchase. I would never buy diamond jewelry from the local big chains, as you're just paying for their rent!

Of course this is just my own experience buying from overseas but I hope this is helpful.


Edited to add: if you are concerned about resale, you can always send your diamond to GIA in HK later.

Would you please elaborate the import / duty fees from USA to HK? As far as my understanding the tax is 0%. Do i need to declare or do anything after i bought it online? Thanks

Yes, there is no sales tax, but the govt levies a charge for packages over a certain value (I can't remember it is called exactly, maybe it is a admin/handling charge or '報關費'? Sorry I forgot the exact name.. You can ask FedEx or Customs & Excise Dept for details ). My experience is that when I pick up my package from Fedex they will collect the money from me and they will process the payment to the govt. I spoke with Fedex rep before and they said Fedex will pay on your behalf only if you pick up the package from Fedex store (ie delivery address is Fedex store). If they deliver the package to your residential/business address, Fedex will not collect the fee from you, but the govt may send you a invoice later, or you/your broker can pre-pay the import fee directly with the govt (not sure how to do this, as I normally let Fedex handle it for me). But as mentioned, usually each time it is a very low amount (less than HK$70) so it's not a big deal in my opinion. I will say that Fedex does not seem to be very stringent about charging me for it. It seems to be mostly for high value items. I had to pay the charge for a ring which was about US$14k, but not for earrings which was US$3k or earrings which were also $3k. So it depends..

 

[kayi078]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Hi! I'm also in Hong Kong and I can confidently tell you that I trust AGS just as much as GIA, if not more. After being on PS and doing some research for the least 3 years, I believe that AGS gives you more detailed information about a diamond, which allows you to make a better informed decision.

I have bought diamonds from Whiteflash, Good Old Gold and also vintage diamond from Love Affair Diamonds, all are vendors commonly recommended here on PS. No problems with shipping at all. I found the customer service is better than the local stores too and the reps know what they are talking about (haha try to talk to a Chow Tai Fook store assistant about crown angle or table width or the lower girdle facets.......... )

If you're looking for a superideal diamond (ie the best of the best), the easiest and least-stressful way to buy a H&A diamond is to choose from the premium range from vendors such as Whiteflash (A Cut Above), Brian Gavin (Signature, Black), CBI, GOG (Ascendency). I believe that for these diamonds you are paying a premium but then each diamond is inspected to pass the strict grading criteria of the vendor (which is beyond AGS 000 or GIA Ex,Ex,Ex). This means that the diamonds have already been pre-screened and selected for you. If you are concerned about returns, I would stick to these premium diamonds.

I used Whiteflash to purchase a 1.3ct diamond last year and now I am upgrading to a 1.8ct. Shipping is very easy as WF sends me the prepared FedEx label and all I have to do is drop the package off at FedEx. If you are returning a diamond for refund, the shipping cost should be under US$100 (just my estimate), but considering the diamond is much cheaper than what it would cost you to get a super ideal cut diamond (i.e. Hearts on Fire or other brands) at Chow Sang Sang or other local store, even if you inspect and return a few diamonds before you find the one you like, you are still coming out ahead. One note is that when you receive the diamond you do have to pay some import/duty fees to the govt, typically it is about HK$70 or less (under US$10) depending on the value of your purchase. I would never buy diamond jewelry from the local big chains, as you're just paying for their rent!

Of course this is just my own experience buying from overseas but I hope this is helpful.


Edited to add: if you are concerned about resale, you can always send your diamond to GIA in HK later.

Would you please elaborate the import / duty fees from USA to HK? As far as my understanding the tax is 0%. Do i need to declare or do anything after i bought it online? Thanks

Yes, there is no sales tax, but the govt levies a charge for packages over a certain value (I can't remember it is called exactly, maybe it is a admin/handling charge or '報關費'? Sorry I forgot the exact name.. You can ask FedEx or Customs & Excise Dept for details ). My experience is that when I pick up my package from Fedex they will collect the money from me and they will process the payment to the govt. I spoke with Fedex rep before and they said Fedex will pay on your behalf only if you pick up the package from Fedex store (ie delivery address is Fedex store). If they deliver the package to your residential/business address, Fedex will not collect the fee from you, but the govt may send you a invoice later, or you/your broker can pre-pay the import fee directly with the govt (not sure how to do this, as I normally let Fedex handle it for me). But as mentioned, usually each time it is a very low amount (less than HK$70) so it's not a big deal in my opinion. I will say that Fedex does not seem to be very stringent about charging me for it. It seems to be mostly for high value items. I had to pay the charge for a ring which was about US$14k, but not for earrings which was US$3k or earrings which were also $3k. So it depends..

Thank you for your explanation.

Im leaning to get the diamond from whiteflash, A cut above and in house diamond.

Does the "A cut above" means it is free of BGM? Or i have to ask the representative to inspect for me? Thanks.

 

[mochiko42]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Hi! I'm also in Hong Kong and I can confidently tell you that I trust AGS just as much as GIA, if not more. After being on PS and doing some research for the least 3 years, I believe that AGS gives you more detailed information about a diamond, which allows you to make a better informed decision.

I have bought diamonds from Whiteflash, Good Old Gold and also vintage diamond from Love Affair Diamonds, all are vendors commonly recommended here on PS. No problems with shipping at all. I found the customer service is better than the local stores too and the reps know what they are talking about (haha try to talk to a Chow Tai Fook store assistant about crown angle or table width or the lower girdle facets.......... )

If you're looking for a superideal diamond (ie the best of the best), the easiest and least-stressful way to buy a H&A diamond is to choose from the premium range from vendors such as Whiteflash (A Cut Above), Brian Gavin (Signature, Black), CBI, GOG (Ascendency). I believe that for these diamonds you are paying a premium but then each diamond is inspected to pass the strict grading criteria of the vendor (which is beyond AGS 000 or GIA Ex,Ex,Ex). This means that the diamonds have already been pre-screened and selected for you. If you are concerned about returns, I would stick to these premium diamonds.

I used Whiteflash to purchase a 1.3ct diamond last year and now I am upgrading to a 1.8ct. Shipping is very easy as WF sends me the prepared FedEx label and all I have to do is drop the package off at FedEx. If you are returning a diamond for refund, the shipping cost should be under US$100 (just my estimate), but considering the diamond is much cheaper than what it would cost you to get a super ideal cut diamond (i.e. Hearts on Fire or other brands) at Chow Sang Sang or other local store, even if you inspect and return a few diamonds before you find the one you like, you are still coming out ahead. One note is that when you receive the diamond you do have to pay some import/duty fees to the govt, typically it is about HK$70 or less (under US$10) depending on the value of your purchase. I would never buy diamond jewelry from the local big chains, as you're just paying for their rent!

Of course this is just my own experience buying from overseas but I hope this is helpful.


Edited to add: if you are concerned about resale, you can always send your diamond to GIA in HK later.

Would you please elaborate the import / duty fees from USA to HK? As far as my understanding the tax is 0%. Do i need to declare or do anything after i bought it online? Thanks

Yes, there is no sales tax, but the govt levies a charge for packages over a certain value (I can't remember it is called exactly, maybe it is a admin/handling charge or '報關費'? Sorry I forgot the exact name.. You can ask FedEx or Customs & Excise Dept for details ). My experience is that when I pick up my package from Fedex they will collect the money from me and they will process the payment to the govt. I spoke with Fedex rep before and they said Fedex will pay on your behalf only if you pick up the package from Fedex store (ie delivery address is Fedex store). If they deliver the package to your residential/business address, Fedex will not collect the fee from you, but the govt may send you a invoice later, or you/your broker can pre-pay the import fee directly with the govt (not sure how to do this, as I normally let Fedex handle it for me). But as mentioned, usually each time it is a very low amount (less than HK$70) so it's not a big deal in my opinion. I will say that Fedex does not seem to be very stringent about charging me for it. It seems to be mostly for high value items. I had to pay the charge for a ring which was about US$14k, but not for earrings which was US$3k or earrings which were also $3k. So it depends..

Thank you for your explanation.

Im leaning to get the diamond from whiteflash, A cut above and in house diamond.

Does the "A cut above" means it is free of BGM? Or i have to ask the representative to inspect for me? Thanks.

Any stone that's Whiteflash ACA or any of the other premium ranges (eg Brian Gavin Signature) will be free of BGM. These are top-tier diamonds, you do not have to worry about milkiness or brown, green, etc, these are all already screened out. However, if you want additional confirmation, you can ask the sales rep to look at the stone for you and give some comments. You can look at the ASET, videos & lab report too for more details.

(Example, I recently bought an 'I' diamond from WF and I was worried it would be yellow as I had a 'G' diamond before. I asked the sales rep and she said that it faced up quite white, and that in her opinion it would be a high 'I', closer to H than J.)

I found my experiences with WF and GOG to be very refreshing as the sales rep are usually honest and knowledgeable. Other users on PS have also had similar good experiences with other vendors like Brian Gavin, etc.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Mochiko, you and Kayi should GTG for Dim Sum!..

 

[mochiko42]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

DF, haha, I am on a diet after spending 1 month in US/Canada, no dim sum for me! Too many American-sized portions! But DK168 and I are hoping to have a GTG in November for the jewelry show.

kayi, I looked some more and here is some more info I found on the import/declaration charge:

http://www.censtatd.gov.hk/FileManager/EN/Content_93/B8XX0022.pdf

"Under the Import and Export (Registration) Regulations,
every person who imports or exports any article other than an
exempted article is required to lodge with the Commissioner
of Customs and Excise an accurate and complete import or
export/re-export declaration within 14 days after the
importation or exportation of the article. Importation or
exportation of personal articles (including articles directly
purchased from or sold to overseas through the Internet or
other means) is also subject to the above declaration
requirements, unless such articles are exempted articles
within the meaning of the Import and Export (Registration)
Regulations. "

(If you click on the PDF link there is the Chinese version also which may be easier to read.)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

Whiteflash in-house diamonds are never brown, green or milky. I have also bought from them multiple times. The cut is superior to what you find in most GIA Excellent cut diamonds. However, Whiteflash does offer a special selection of well cut, in-house GIA Excellent stones if you prefer that in their Premium Select category.

 

[whitewave]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

I prefer AGS to GIA if I had to choose between one and the other.

And as mentioned, do not buy that HCA 4 stone.

 

[yeleaves]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

I have the same concern. Are diamonds from JA free of BGM ?
btw, I heard that AGS is soft on color grade , correct me if I got the wrong info.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Buying diamond online, how to make sure it is free of BG

I have the same concern. Are diamonds from JA free of BGM ?
btw, I heard that AGS is soft on color grade , correct me if I got the wrong info.

You would need to speak with JA about each stone to know, many of their diamonds are "virtual" so they may need to speak with their suppliers, or they may have agreements with their suppliers that they will never include diamonds with BGM, I do not know.

I do know that many vendors on this forum will never accept any diamond with BGM as part of their inventory. It is much easier to do with in house rather than virtual inventory.

As for the comment about AGS.

This keeps making the rounds but the reality is NO, AGS is not softer on color than GIA. In fact GIA with multiple labs around the world is having horrible problems with consistency, while AGS with only one lab is much more consistent in both color and clarity.

Many vendors in the trade are happy to share this with you, especially if they actually use AGS reports. Many vendors who only use GIA love to create doubt about the AGS brand. It is a silly game.

Wink

 

[groovnstar]

Hi Josh and Mochiko, I am also from HK and a newbie.
Josh, not sure if you got the stone already? I'm not concerned about AGS. GIA got their rep here because of marketing, I am sure AGS is just as valid. If your GF does not know much about AGS, you could try educate her a little afterwards haha.
I just chose a 1ct stone from Victor Canera, they do ship to HK.
Mochiko, wow I didn't know about the govt regulations, I dunno if I will have to pay for my 1ct stone.
I checked with the others such as GOG, Leon Mege, Brian Gavin, they all ship to HK. If you haven't checked out Brian Gavin yet you should, I think they are also well-known in HK (and internationally) amongst the enthusiasts so even with an AGS cert you won't need to worry about any "reputation value".
From my limited experience, I'd say for us overseas buyers, stick with the "smaller" US vendors because of an interesting factor - they have a relatively smaller inventory. This may sounds strange but if you browse through JA they have so many stones and that makes it even more difficult for you to choose "the best" stone from even if you already have particular criteria. It takes a bit more work and time because you have to browse through 3-4 websites and manage your emails from different vendors but it's worth it with their customer service (not that JA customer service is not good, simply because I didn't approach them). Victor answered my emails quickly. The others like GOG, Leon Mege and Brian Gavin also answered promptly and you can ask for details. These vendors live by their reputations so I think we can have more trust in them when telling you the details about their stones.
Good luck and tell us what you get