Buying a stone for my girl

[RevChris]

Hello,

First off thank you all so much for all the questions you have answered for others and all the research that is posted around these forums. I''m sure without this place I would have ended up at the downtown diamond shop and come home with a .44c SI3 I-J, 14k gold ring for 2 grand or more. But thanks to all the research around I''m probably going to end up with something substantially better that fits my budget of around $2500CDN.

I''ve pretty much decided on a certain online retailer due to favorable reviews scattered around the web and am going for a simple 2.5 mm 18K white gold setting. Now the stone is where I consistently have pause since I don''t actually get to see it before ordering.

I wanted to be absolutely sure the stone I ended up with had no black marks visible inside the ring so I refined my search to vvs2 or better.
I also keep reading over and over that cut is supremely important so I refined down to Very Good or better.
I''ve seen color listed as not as important and hard to really judge without comparison stones/depends on setting so I am looking for H or better.
Im willing to go around 2k for the stone and when I went to the local stores I was happy with the look of 0.4 carat stones on 3mm sized rings. My budget contrains me to between about 0.4 carat and .6 carat since the setting is going to run me around 400$.
So with the above in mind I made myself a comparison list and came up with a short list of 5 stones.

Stone#1 is a .54c IF Ideal Cut H color which has dimensions I like (around 5.2mm l/w and 3.25mm deep) for $2070 CDN .

Stone#2 is .47c IF Ideal Cut H Color with smaller dimensions (5mm l/w and 3.1mm deep) for $1545 CDN. I like the cost savings but worry the size difference will be noticable in the 2.5mm setting.

Stone #3 is the biggest one .60c VVS2 Ideal Cut H color (5.4 l/w and 3.4mm deep) for $2079 CDN. The idea of bigger feels nice too.

Stone #4 is the budget gem .40c VVS2 Ideal Cut F color (4.7 l/w and 2.95mm deep) for $1079 CDN. Since there is alot I could do with 1000$ , this is still on the table but the polish/symetry are VG instead of Ideal like the other 4 stones.

Stone #5 is almost identical to stone #4 , except instead with Ideal polish/symetry and G Color , for 1089 CDN. As I write this out I feel this may be the superior stone to Stone #4 since the color probably wont be noticed but the symetry/polish might make a difference.

A little more , the table on each of these stones is 55-56% with depth at 62% , and all are with AGSL or GIA rated.

Can anyone spot any glaringly obvious problems with these selections? Are my searching criteria too tight and might I find a better deal with some expanded search options?

Any help at all to narrow it down would be much much appreciated!

 

[thaihunt]

You can be pretty certain that most VS2s will be eye clean. Many here even report their SI1s being eye clean. If I were you, I would relax my clarity standards and go for a bigger stone, better color, or better cut, depending on your priorities.

Good luck!

 

[stone-cold11]

One thing to note, you will unlikely to tell a difference between an eye-clean SI1 and a IF stone unless you are looking at it through a 10x loupe. So you are paying alot for something you will not see.

Also, for the cut, we would like to know what is the table, depth and girdle % and also the crown and pavilion angles to make any kind of judgment.

 

[swingirl]

If you are open to buying on the internet consider this one.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1982350.htm#

VVS1 or really overkill since you won''t be seeing very much from VS2 on up. Also there are a lot of kinds of inclusions other than carbon spots that give a VS it''s grade. So lowering your clarity requirement will get you a better cut stone, bigger stone or better color.

 

[RevChris]

Thanks for the replies.

For people who wanted more detail I have attached a screen shot of the stone comparison.

Opening up my search options is sure to expand my options but for the time being here is what I''ve been considering (see attached).

 

[Ellen]

Hi Rev,

I have to echo the "clarity camp". Unless your intended specifically asked for the size you''re looking at (I''m thinking maybe not?), I''m preeeeety sure she''d appreciate a bigger stone, that is still eyeclean. And as it has been pointed out, that can easily be an SI1. I own a .58 SI1 stud, that I can''t find the inclusions in with a 10x loupe.

I''d really go for more size, something she can actually see!

 

[RevChris]

Hello,

My girl is defiantly in the classic camp so I want it to be a surprise for her. If I can scale down the clarity and get a bigger stone that would be great. I'm just so very worried about ending up with something where I can see a carbon flaws. I want it to be eye clean.

I've seen that I can get ~.70 VS2 I clarity for around 2k.

 

[thaihunt]

To ensure eye-cleanliness:

1) Ask the dealer to inspect the stone. Tell him/her exactly what your definition of eye-clean is, and then have them describe it to you.

and

2) Buy from someone with a good return policy. That will allow you to inspect it for yourself yourself or have an appraiser look at it.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/2/2009 5:37:10 PM
Author: RevChris
Hello,

My girl is defiantly in the classic camp so I want it to be a surprise for her. If I can scale down the clarity and get a bigger stone that would be great. I''m just so very worried about ending up with something where I can see a carbon flaws. I want it to be eye clean.

I''ve seen that I can get ~.70 VS2 I clarity for around 2k.

I totally understand! But it can definitely be achieved, if you are purchasing from a vendor that has the stones on site, where they can assess them.

By chance, are these stones from BN?

 

[RevChris]

Yes Ellen, these stones are from BN , I like that they deal in CDN dollars.
I''m also looking around at WF too.


I came across this (see attached)when I opened up my search criteria, any reason to be suspicious?

 

[stone-cold11]

This stone has too shallow a pavilion angle for the crown angle, it will probably go dark when viewed at it closely. Best use of that stone is for a pendant.

This is why we need to look at the crown and pavilion angles.

The numbers are here.
http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=15975253&weight=0.70

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/2/2009 5:54:56 PM
Author: RevChris
Yes Ellen, these stones are from BN , I like that they deal in CDN dollars.
I''m also looking around at WF too.


I came across this (see attached)when I opened up my search criteria, any reason to be suspicious?

Ok, I kinda thought they were. And there''s nothing wrong with that, except, they have been known to tell someone a stone was eyeclean, when it wasn''t. Now, if you went with a VS2, that most likely wouldn''t happen. However, if we''re trying to get the most size, an SI1 will definitely help. Also, if you get a really well cut stone, especially under a carat, you could go to an I, and no one will see anything but sparkle! But I will understand if you are hesitant to do that.

As for this stone, I would need the crown and pavilion angles. Something is causing the VG cut, and I don''t see it so far...

I would really recommend WF or one of the other vendors that can truly help you out, answwer all your questions, and preferably give you IS pics, which BN can''t do. When you are buying sight unseen, the more info the better!

I''ll have a look around too.

 

[RevChris]

Wow Stonecold, this is stuff I never would have even known. I spent alot of research time focusing on color and clarity and just depending on the "Ideal,VG,Good,Fair" Cut rating assuming that all the stones were cut for rings.

Thanks for the GIA website reference , I used it to check a couple of other stones but to be honest am not entirely sure how to determine if a specific stone would be suitable for a ring.
Also thanks for the help Ellen , I really appreciate it!

 

[RevChris]

Might this stone be a better suit?

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=6107415878&weight=0.73

 

[Ellen]

Agreed, that stone (that sc looked up) is a no no.

Here's a nice one, if eyeclean. Don't let the pictures and plots scare you, they are not representitive of real life! Just have them look it (or any other) over. If you don't want to see anything from any distance or angle, just tell them. They will be very honest about it. One note, this particular vendor has a stricter upgrade policy, in case that's an option in the futuure. So be sure to check it out on their site.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1236892.asp


Slightly bigger, if you would consider an I.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1197184.asp



ETA My computer won't take me to that stone as I can't click it. Sorry!

 

[whitby_2773]

hi RevChris -

i thought it was worth throwing my 2c in as i''ve bought around 30 stones from blue nile over the last few years.

i would definitely encourage you NOT to go to VVS2 clarity - unless you have money to burn. you''re not going to see marks in VS2 stones, but by all means call BN and ask them to call the vendor for you and check. i''ve bought stones from them from VVS1 to SI2 clarity, and have seen marks in NONE of them unless looking through a loupe (and who runs around with a loupe in their pocket??) VS2 is normally a very nice clarity.

if you''re using BN, i have to say that about half the stones i''ve bought are BN Signature Cuts - and they have been nicer. the signature cut G SI1 stone i bought sparkled more than the ideal cut E VVS1, despite both being ex/ex polish and symmetry and despite pavillion and crown angles being between 40.6-41% and 34-35% respectively. i also aim for a depth of as close to 61.2% as i can get, and a table between 55-57%. there is give and take in these numbers and some tweaking can complement other tweaking as the percentages are all inter-dependent, but if you aren''t seeing the stone beforehand, i''ve found that sticking to these figures gives me a consistently lovely stone sight unseen.

great cut makes a drop in color quite forgiving when looking straight down on the stone, as pretty much all you see is reflected light (ie twinkle!), but this isn''t true of the sides of the ring, so if it''s a setting where you can see the sides of the diamond (like most solitaires), i personally don''t go below a G in color. others here disagree with me, but that''s simply my experience and i can consistently see a difference between an E and an H, so i settle generally on an F, but a G is fine for most people also. an H is definitely as low as i''d go for an open sided ring IF i didn''t want to see ''warmth''. i do own I/J/K color stones, but i set them very differently (yellow gold, bezel settings, halos and so on and so on so you can''t see the sides of the stone).

good luck with your purchase and do let us know what you decide upon

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 5/2/2009 6:28:18 PM
Author: RevChris
Might this stone be a better suit?

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=6107415878&weight=0.73

This is a better bet but to be safe we would like to see an idealscope image of it but BN won''t be able to. That is why we like to refer to vendors that provide images.

 

[Ellen]

whitby, sounds like you are more aware of color than many.

Yes, BN''s signature stones are the better cut.

Rev, you can go with a deeper depth than whitby''s preference, up to 62 is fine.

 

[RevChris]

Hey SC, That stone is actually with WF.
I have contacted them about seeing an image , do they provide that service?

Thanks Ellen I will look at those when She isnt around.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/2/2009 7:01:35 PM
Author: RevChris
Hey SC, That stone is actually with WF.
I have contacted them about seeing an image , do they provide that service?

Thanks Ellen I will look at those when She isnt around.

You''re welcome!

And yes, WF provides pics and such.

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 5/2/2009 6:49:54 PM
Author: Ellen
whitby, sounds like you are more aware of color than many.


Yes, BN''s signature stones are the better cut.


Rev, you can go with a deeper depth than whitby''s preference, up to 62 is fine.

hi ellen - i hope you''re having a great weekend

re color - yes, i''m sensitive to color - but even my husband, who hasnt got an aesthetic bone in his body, can tell the difference between an E and an H and ended up going with an F - because he could see the difference and didn''t like it. RevChris''s girl may be the same. re depth, yes, you can go up to 62% - and some would even say 62.4 at a pinch - but IF you''re buying sight unseen, i find 61.2 is a nice safe place to be. as i said, those stats are all tweakable.

BN''s signature stones aren''t necessarily better cut - tho i have found that they generally are. they''re cut in NY specifically for BN and are guaranteed to have been checked by BN, rather than BN simply acting as a distributer. they also come with slightly more info re their light performance.

RevChris - i hope this continues to add to your picture; a full picture makes for a great decision. and having said all that...keeping in mind color and reasonable clarity and great cut....

i agree with ellen. women tend to like a stone with some size to it.

good luck!

 

[RevChris]

I think I may have found something close to what you recommend Whitby.

GIA Report

IdealScope

Sarin
Aset


For $2331.00

Do I have the right idea?Pic

 

[whitby_2773]

hi RevChris

you found a very nice stone - tho not an ACA stone - which would be your goal, i should think, when buying through White Flash (an excellent company, by the way). i do think if you want to go to an I color, you''ll want a great cut to minimize any chance of seeing warmth (unless you like that, which of course some people do).

the stone i''d probably buy is this one.

the other thing i forgot to mention about BN signature ideals is that they guarantee them to be eye clean, so it takes your worry of ''will there be visible carbon flaws?'' off the table immediately.

if it''s any consolation, my engagement ring center stone is an SI1 clarity, and it''s absolutely the sparkliest stone i''ve ever seen - and it''s totally clean to the eye. and BN''s return policy is wonderful and they have never given me grief about wanting to return a stone; don''t feel you cant buy the stone, hang onto it for a couple of weeks, and then return it if you dont like it as much as you hope. also just to let you know, i have a GSI1 BN signature ideal in a ring my husband gave me last Christmas which is .7ct - so very close to yours - and it''s wonderful.

be aware, tho, they dont have an upgrade policy, so this wouldnt be an option if purchasing through them.

 

[RevChris]

The one you linked is nice.
But its about 2900 CND which is outside what I saved up.
All included , taxes in I can spend around 3800 CDN.
So with $400.00 for a setting and 600 for taxes and shipping ect Im looking at around $2800 for a stone.

I am eyeing

this

and

this

which seems to basicly means I need to ask myself do I want a smaller G diamond or slightly larger I diamond.

 

[swingirl]

Date: 5/2/2009 10:56:04 PM
Author: RevChris
I think I may have found something close to what you recommend Whitby.


GIA Report

IdealScope

Sarin

Aset

For $2331.00

Do I have the right idea?Pic

This is a lovely stone. wf has a couple simple tiffany settings which are in your budget, too.

I would always prefer to buy a stone that had ASET and Idealscope images to look at. Although BN has a great return policy it means you need to spend money getting your stone appraised and then returning it if you aren't happy. Seeing the images usually eliminates that possibility.

 

[stone-cold11]

Looks good to me.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/2/2009 6:07:56 PM
http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=15975253&weight=0.70

The pavilion angle is way too shallow in any circumstances with this diamond, it would not be a good pick so I would scratch this one.

Look for pavilion angles of around 40.6- 41 degrees and try to strike the middle if possible - 40.8 etc if GIA numbers.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/3/2009 2:27:39 AM
Author: RevChris
The one you linked is nice.
But its about 2900 CND which is outside what I saved up.
All included , taxes in I can spend around 3800 CDN.
So with $400.00 for a setting and 600 for taxes and shipping ect Im looking at around $2800 for a stone.

I am eyeing

this

and

this

which seems to basicly means I need to ask myself do I want a smaller G diamond or slightly larger I diamond.

The diamond has potential!

 

[whitby_2773]

hi RevChris - and welcome to sunday. are you indeed a reverend? or does the reference relate more to car engines?

i''m sorry the ring i linked was outside your budget; i was going from the one you linked to previously which was $2331 as i recall, so wasn''t sure how flexible you were.

i really like the look of the second stone you linked to - the .65ct G SI1 - pretty stone! the crown angle is ever so slightly better, i prefer its color at a G, and there''s only .2 of a mm between the two in dimensions. it''s also $300 cheaper, which will go a considerable way to covering the cost of your setting.

what size finger does your girl have? if she has slim hands, .65ct will look - not large, but very nice on her. the .7ct will look very similar.

let us know which way you go, and good luck again!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/2/2009 10:56:04 PM
Author: RevChris
I think I may have found something close to what you recommend Whitby.

GIA Report

IdealScope

Sarin
Aset


For $2331.00

Do I have the right idea?Pic

This stone looks fantastic! Many stones in the ES just miss being branded, for rather picky reasons. It may well be something you can''t see in real life. It''s certainly no reason to dismiss it.

The other I SI1 at BN looks fine, if eyeclean. I know whitby has mentioned they are gaurateed eyeclean,. but in the 3+ years I''ve been on here, there have been several times they weren''t. If you don''t mind sending it back if it''s not, then it may be a consideration also.


As for color, if you put a G and an I together in front of someone, they may be able to tell the difference, though even then many can''t. But if someone just hands you one, I seriously doubt you could tell much. And that is how they are worn, alone, in a setting. But it''s totally up to you on that!