Bunz style tension set - for less?

[DazCerwin]

I am looking for an engagement ring. I would like a tension set in platinum (or white gold) but without the under bar thing that many jewlers put there.
Bunz, the German designer''s rings are perfect, but out of budget.
Does anyone know of somewhere which does these style rings. My budget is 1,500 GBP approx. $2,600 for both diamond and setting.
I would mlike a high quality stone, D - F, no worse than VS1 GIA certificated. Around 40pts, bigger if budget allows but would go down to 30pts if everything else was right.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[thunkpad]

Hi Daz - I'm based in the UK and have just benefited from tons of advice on PS in finding my perfect engagement ring.

Bunz has several tension set designs such as the one below so if you could post pics of the one you like it might help us out.

Solomon Brothers has this Gelin Abaci tension set ring (right) for $845 in 14K white gold.

You may also want to speak to someone like Quest to see about going custom and getting exactly what you want. I imagine you should be able to do that and still remain in budget [EDIT: actually strike that - as strmrdr says, after reading around, it looks like tension settings are a fairly specialist job so I don't think Quest or any other custom ring maker would be able to do it for you]. Speaking of budget, I think you would still get a great stone that faces up white by droppintg to an H (or even and I or a J if the cut's good - see other posts on color). That way you could probably go larger than 40pts. And while your at it, consider VS2 and even SL1 or SL2 for clarity. VS2 should give you a perfectly eye clean stone and it's even possible to find nice eye clean SI round brilliants if you ask around a bit. All of which would give you that bigger stone you were hoping for. Just remeber not to compromise on cut!

 

[strmrdr]

When it comes to tension rings you want to only buy rings made by experts at that type of ring.
They are fussy to make and problematic in the long term.
If I was considering one it would have to be made of TI.

Also the diamond usualy needs to be vs2 clarity or better and no inclusions anywhere close to the girdle to be used in them.

 

[thunkpad]

Guess you don't want to be going as low as SI then but definitely consider a VS2.

As for the setting, Gelin Abaci are specialist tension ring makers (run a search on here for more opinions). It looks like this site has the full line of Gelin Abaci rings with a greater choice of metals. You can get the setting above in 18K white gold (my preference) for $1225 (pictured below).

See here: http://www.sndgems.com/TR007gelinabaci.htm

And here for their complete line of Gelin Abaci tension settings: http://www.sndgems.com/platinum-gold-tension-set-rings-gai.htm

They do have platinum versions as well but I think they'll take you over budget.

 

[SuzyQZ]

The most recognized tension set designers are Gelin Abaci and Steven Kretchmer and I''m sure there are others - but i doubt any will cost less than what you''ve found.

I understand there is an art to knowing how to properly tension set a stone, if not done correctly, the security of your diamond may be at risk. That''s why these designs are so expensive.

I love tension settings, but don''t know if I''d be comfortable having someone try to copy it unless they had extensive experience with the metals and setting techniques. I''d go for the real thing or do a channel, semi bezel "look alike".

Just my 2 cents.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

dimend scaasi also carries the Gelin line (dscaasi.com)

 

[DazCerwin]

Thank You so much for all your help.
This gives me some good options.

You say do not compramise on cut - does that mean I need IF cut on the GIA cert, or does this mean I should go for a particular branded diamond?
I thought round brilliand rated as cut:VG would be what I need to look for. IS this the case? Do I need to go higher - or hearts and arrows, aern''t all brilliant cuts hearts and arrows?
Is there a particular diamond vendor you would recomend (maybe one that only sells great cut diamonds)?

Sorry, I''m a bit confused.

 

[valeria101]

Any of the tension ring makers mentioned (Bunz - didn''t they come up with tension rings to begin with?, G&A, Kretchmer... Niessing) are great. And IMO, tension rings look great with smaller diamonds since the rings are as wide as the stones etc - 30-40 pts sounds great.

Titanium would be lovely and a safe bet for tension rings - for about a quarter of the cost of any other alternative. It should be a safer bet too - since the metal''s natural properties serve the purpose well w/o special treatments as precious metals require. And it is that necessary special treatment that makes tension rings ''rare'' - in the sense that not every jewelry shop makes them. I wouldn''t be surprised if you did find a custom jeweler who does make them, only I don''t know of any.


My 2c



Btw. maybe I do know one... a shop previously specializing in modern metal jewelry (titanium, zirconium and tungsten) started making their designs - mostly tension rings, in precious metals as well.

Here''s the place: LINK Noticed the announcement a bit ago. I don''t know much more about them than you do, at this point. I know Mara tried them out eons ago and ended up having the ring made by a competing shop Boone Rings. However, that was about a Ti ring, and at the time I don''t think these guys offered jewelry in platinum and gold. Since their specialty is tension settings - perhaps there is a better chance for them to take the task of using traditional jewelry metals for them seriously.

 

[Rod]

Date: 4/4/2006 3:57:01 PM
Author: SuzyQZ
The most recognized tension set designers are Gelin Abaci and Steven Kretchmer and I''m sure there are others - but i doubt any will cost less than what you''ve found.

I understand there is an art to knowing how to properly tension set a stone, if not done correctly, the security of your diamond may be at risk. That''s why these designs are so expensive.

I love tension settings, but don''t know if I''d be comfortable having someone try to copy it unless they had extensive experience with the metals and setting techniques. I''d go for the real thing or do a channel, semi bezel ''look alike''.

Just my 2 cents.

Exactly.............

I wanted a full tension mount for my ring, but when I considered the advantages and disadvantages, I chose a semi-tension mount, custom made in Platinum. Don''t get wrong, I still think the Gelin settings are truly works of art, but the resizing issue (they don''t resize them, they just make a new setting for a negotiated reduced price) and the pressure on the diamond girdle, just made me too wary of getting one.

You should get exactly what makes your heart flutter, but if you do buy a full tension mount, make sure you''re getting one of quality from one of the designers already mentioned above.

Good luck.......

 

[Garysax]

I just got engaged with a Gelin Abaci ring. I found they were much cheaper than Kretchmer, probably Bunz as well. They were also more elegant designs IMHO, a lot more feminine. Though still pretty masculine in the overall engagement ring spectrum. My fiance's ring is:

here

G+A (and other tension) rings are great and very unique. She is ecstatic about her ring. If you can, make sure you go see example tension settings first; they're heavier and usually have bigger bands than little delicate non-tensions. I bought mine through Micky Roof jewelers in new york, who were awesome to work with remotely over e-mail, highly recommended. They also have a good site that shows the different styles of G+A w/multiple pictures. Also look at the main G+A site and the main kretchmer and Niessing site, though, again, if you're on a budget I found Kretchmer designs very expensive. Get a nice .40 point stone and then look into seeing which design could fit into your budget.

pictures

For what it's worth the resizing issue wasn't that big an issue with me--I talked to Micky Roof and they said they could get a different size (for tensions that usually means recasting the whole ring) for about a 100 dollar fee. More expensive that resizing a regular ring but still not that much so I felt comfortable with the ring.

 

[Rod]

Hey Gary, I don''t know how I managed to miss the unveiling of the ring, but I wanted you to know it''s simply beautiful!!!

Really cool with the lavendar sapphires on the tip!! WOW!!

 

[Garysax]

Date: 4/5/2006 5:20:14 PM
Author: Rod
Hey Gary, I don''t know how I managed to miss the unveiling of the ring, but I wanted you to know it''s simply beautiful!!!

Really cool with the lavendar sapphires on the tip!! WOW!!

Thanks a lot for the kind words Rob!

 

[thunkpad]

Date: 4/5/2006 3:57:05 PM
Author: DazCerwin
Thank You so much for all your help.
This gives me some good options.

You say do not compramise on cut - does that mean I need IF cut on the GIA cert, or does this mean I should go for a particular branded diamond?
I thought round brilliand rated as cut:VG would be what I need to look for. IS this the case? Do I need to go higher - or hearts and arrows, aern't all brilliant cuts hearts and arrows?
Is there a particular diamond vendor you would recomend (maybe one that only sells great cut diamonds)?

Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

IF is the clarity and there's no need to go that high in clarity unless that's what your really after.

A round brilliant very good or excellent cut would be a good starting point, then post the dimensions on here for people to give you their opinions on.

Hearts and Arrows is a branded cut that displays the correct hearts and arrows symmetry. You'll pay a premium for those cuts but they don't necesarily display any more sparkle (which is what most people look for).

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/6/2006 7:09:27 AM
Author: thunkpad

Date: 4/5/2006 3:57:05 PM
Author: DazCerwin


I thought round brilliant rated as cut:VG would be what I need to look for. IS this the case? Do I need to go higher - or hearts and arrows, aren''t all brilliant cuts hearts and arrows?

A round brilliant very good or excellent cut would be a good starting point, then post the dimensions on here for people to give you their opinions on.

Hearts and Arrows is a branded cut that displays the correct hearts and arrows symmetry. You''ll pay a premium for those cuts but they don''t necessarily display any more sparkle (which is what most people look for).

OK, but... watch that ''very good'', ''excellent'' and ''ideal'' cut do not mean the same everywhere. basically, there is no standard cut grading system - every shop or lab has its own, and some are vastly more meaningful.

Example: I wonder what the ''excellent cut'' label assigned automatically by the interface of a database of loose diamonds means! All they have is probably table and depth numbers from the lab reports... with no one to even look out for the occasional typo among the thousands and thousands of listings.

Wonder how much that practice would last when lab reports also include cut grades assigned by labs (AGS and GIA).

Sure enough, the labs do not agree with each other what is top cut either.

And neither GIA or AGS talks about H&A diamonds, or the optical symmetry or patterns created by geometrically exact alignment of facets. That comes at a price especially if the ''H&A'' label is attached, but not every diamond with an apparent ''pattern'' is called ''H&A'' and sold at a premium. I am not sure what is the logic behind that... The ''Expert selection'' at Whiteflash makes a pretty good example for that (diamonds with ''arrows'' pattern that are not sold as H&A).


As for recommending sellers: why not try the ''In House'' and ''Search by Cut Quality'' lists on top of this page. Several shops list their better cut diamonds there. If one happens to have just the right stone... You will probably find lots and lots of feedback on this forum about any of those shops - good and bad.

Hope some of this helps

 

[valeria101]

For example...

Assuming the setting will be priced like those above (around 1k)... with $1500 left for the diamond give or take. How does these sound ?


0.42cts, 5mm, D/VS1 $1300

Perhaps AGS ''s cut grading is better, but this time, the point is moot because the seller provides much better info than the labs do anyway.

Chances are the seller can source a G&A setting for you as well (diamonds are sent out to G&A to be set anyway, as far as I know) even if they do not advertise this designer label in particular.


There are others, of course.

 

[DazCerwin]

This one sounds good.

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_details.aspx?idno=677994

What do people think?

 

[kcoursolle]

That stone looks great, great cut!! That baby will sparkle like a star! However, D color is nice and all, but a G or even lower will still look white and will cost less or you can go bigger. This is still a great diamond looking diamond though. Some gals really like the idea of having a D colored stone, while others would rather have a slightly larger stone, it''s preference I guess. If she really likes very white stones I would go for an F, it''s the best value for stones still considered colorless.

 

[DazCerwin]

Or this one?

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-4964007

 

[DazCerwin]

Or bigger for around the same price:

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-5507906

A drop in quality though.

I kind of like the idea of having the whitest possible, but I can get an extra 10pts in size if I go down to F.

 

[Rod]

Date: 4/7/2006 5:19:20 AM
Author: DazCerwin
Or bigger for around the same price:

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-5507906

A drop in quality though.

I kind of like the idea of having the whitest possible, but I can get an extra 10pts in size if I go down to F.

Please don't believe for a moment that "going down to F" is a compromise in colorlessness. I would defy you to put a D and an F side by side (where both were cut to the best proportions) and see any real difference.

There have been many threads on color here. Some people say they have extreme color sensitivity. Good for them. But for most people, myself included (who does have good color perception) the minute differences in color in the lower ranges are so so so imperceptible.

In fact, you'll note that there are many who have discovered that H and J colored stones which are really well cut, face up quite white and offer tremendous value. This time, for my own stone, I bought a G. Next time, I'll likely go with H or J and get a bigger stone for my money.

 

[kenny]

I bought a GIA F VS1.
Next time I wil buy a smaller stone and get less color, and more clarity for my money.

Everyone's different.

 

[thunkpad]

Go for the third one out of the three. An F is still a superb color and takes you over the magic ''half carat'' mark. You''ve still got room to drop the color and think bigger though. If you buy an ideal cut round brilliant many people would say you can even go as low as a J and get a stone that looks sparkly white (or even lower if you read some of the posts on here). If that''s a bit to low for you I''d certainly at least see what you can get when you drop to a G or an H.

 

[Garysax]

Couple of things...

You need to go in person and see how sensitive you are to color. I''m relatively sensitive, I can see color in H so I went a little higher than that. But it''s overkill to get D, IMHO. The other issue is that if you''re still set on getting a tension, getting a more colorless diamond (still no need for D) is a good idea since with a tension you will be seeing the diamond a lot more from odd angles than you will with a more traditional setting. Color shows more when looking at it from the side or bottom so a stone that looks completely white from the top but not from other angles might not be the best for a tension--you''ll be seeing it from the side all the time.

 

[Shay37]

That third stone you linked is beautiful. However it is SI2, and I don''t think that G&A will set anything below a VS2 in their settings due to the stress. I like the first of the two.

shay

 

[Shay37]

How about this one? http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2362031.htm#

shay

ETA: Both the girdle and the clarity will pass muster. The F is colorless. The cut is superb. The price with your PS discount should be well within reach. HTH

 

[thunkpad]

Date: 4/7/2006 7:00:22 PM
Author: Garysax
Couple of things...

getting a more colorless diamond (still no need for D) is a good idea since with a tension you will be seeing the diamond a lot more from odd angles than you will with a more traditional setting. Color shows more when looking at it from the side or bottom so a stone that looks completely white from the top but not from other angles might not be the best for a tension--you''ll be seeing it from the side all the time.

Good point! There''ll be no hiding with that tension set

 

[Garysax]

G+A sets at minimum SI1--SI2 wouldn''t fly. Personally I''d get VS2 at least to be sure, you don''t want your stone rejected on the off chance that a specific SI1 stone wasn''t good enough.

 

[marriahlyn]

Also I have noticed on pealmansjewelers site that they have a few tension settings that have chipped diamonds. Not sure if it''s a common occurance for tension sets since the girdle is so exposed. I would make sure it''s insured good because a tension setting is made for the specific diamond and if there is a problem with that diamond, then a whole new setting would have to be made for the new stone.

Personally, I whack my rings all the time, I''d clobber a tension setting but I''d really like one!! They are very beautiful.

 

[DazCerwin]

That could be the one!
PS discount? I had no idea....How much and how do I claim it?

 

[Shay37]

Ask for it when you call them.

You get a certain % for a wire transfer (perfectly safe with them I have done it myself, and I am the queen of paranoia), and a certain % for PS member.
I'm not sure the exact % for each, so you'll just have to ask.

shay