Brilliant earth lab diamond

[PM83]

Hi all,

I was looking at this si1 diamond and want to know if it is worth purchasing? I would like to know if the inclusions will be visible? When zoomed out all the way I can’t see them. As fo overall quality, is this stone worth considering?

Thanks.

https://www.brilliantearth.com/rings/cyorings/view_diamond/8730904/?sid=1325451&is_tab=1

 

[OoohShiny]

Hi all,

I was looking at this si1 diamond and want to know if it is worth purchasing? I would like to know if the inclusions will be visible? When zoomed out all the way I can’t see them. As fo overall quality, is this stone worth considering?

Thanks.

https://www.brilliantearth.com/rings/cyorings/view_diamond/8730904/?sid=1325451&is_tab=1

Welcome to the forum

The proportions look good and I think it should have a score under 2 on the HCA assessment tool (under the Tools tab), which would indicate the angles are complementary.

The inclusions look black but very small to me - screen resolution is too 'chunky' to really see inclusions as you would in real life, but it looks like it would be eye-clean.

Do read other threads in this forum covering Brilliant Earth, though - they've had some very poor customer service experiences recently, it seems.

 

[PM83]

I have read through some of them, however their pricing is much more affordable than other sites I’ve looked at. Just wondering what you think of this diamond? https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-diamonds-search/view_detail/8615937/ do the arrows look kind of weird?

thanks in advance!

 

[PM83]

The HCA scored 0.9 I’ve read that scores from 0-1 are preferred for pendants instead of rings, what do you think? Could it still look nice as a ring?

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

The HCA scored 0.9 I’ve read that scores from 0-1 are preferred for pendants instead of rings, what do you think? Could it still look nice as a ring?

Do you know why HCA scores from 0-1 are better for pendants instead of rings? Just curious.

 

[MelloYello8]

I have read through some of them, however their pricing is much more affordable than other sites I’ve looked at. Just wondering what you think of this diamond? https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-diamonds-search/view_detail/8615937/ do the arrows look kind of weird?

thanks in advance!

I think I remember seeing someone on here who reached out to DNEA who was able to give better pricing/options. While they no longer have an online inventory it might be worth reaching out if you know what specs you want.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Can someone give me a grade of my diamond I purchased from Brilliant Earth! Thanks in advance for your time!! Truly appreciate it. View attachment 727830

 

[Saintsfan1977]

I also have picture of the diamond.

 

[PM83]

Do you know why HCA scores from 0-1 are better for pendants instead of rings? Just curious.

I am not sure either and am curious to find out why as well!

 

[OoohShiny]

Can someone give me a grade of my diamond I purchased from Brilliant Earth! Thanks in advance for your time!! Truly appreciate it. View attachment 727830

Welcome to the forum.

You should start your own thread in this part of the forum - this thread is for discussion of the PM83's search, so yours will get lost and it will be more confusing to search for in the future, for both you and others!

 

[OoohShiny]

I am not sure either and am curious to find out why as well!

This is worth a read:

HCA score under 1

I'm looking at a diamond with a crown angle of 34.9, a pavilion angle of 40.6, table 55.7 and depth 61.5. The diamond will be set in a ring. HCA score of .8 indicates the diamond should be set in a pendant. Should I have any concerns? I own a diamond that scored a .8 on the HCA but based on...

www.pricescope.com

And this:

HCA tool below 1

Why is there a note one the hca tool that says “Scores of 0-1 are often good for earrings and pendants, but usually not as good for rings.” Why would a diamond with more light return, fire and scintillation not be good for a ring?

www.pricescope.com

And there's lots of interesting reading on Garry Holloways site - tagging @sledge here for the science
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/15_summary.htm


The short version?

Shallow stones score under 1 and can sometimes look too dark from too much obstruction/contrast occurring at the same time, such as with shorter Lower Girdle Facets (75%) but stones would need to be inspected to check for this.


As I understand things, anyway... lol

 

[PM83]

Thanks for your response and resources! I’m learning so much already! I’m trying to find the perfect diamond but all of the crown/pavilion combos can become confusing. I would greatly appreciate your help with finding the perfect diamond and also to see what you think of this diamond?

https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-diamonds-search/view_detail/8615937/

I am not crazy about the arrows in the 360 video, but on the certificate photo the arrows look nicer and it scored excellent on light return, scintillation and fire and very good on spread. Please let me know what you think of it?

Thanks!

 

[OoohShiny]

Thanks for your response and resources! I’m learning so much already! I’m trying to find the perfect diamond but all of the crown/pavilion combos can become confusing. I would greatly appreciate your help with finding the perfect diamond and also to see what you think of this diamond?

https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-diamonds-search/view_detail/8615937/

I am not crazy about the arrows in the 360 video, but on the certificate photo the arrows look nicer and it scored excellent on light return, scintillation and fire and very good on spread. Please let me know what you think of it?

Thanks!

The angles look like they might work together - put the info from the GCAL grading report into the HCA tool (under the Tools tab) to check what it scores if you want to make sure. Ideally you're looking for scores under 2.0 but up to mid-2s should be fine, just needing careful inspection.

I think the pavilion is probably too shallow, though - I believe 40.45 degrees is where leakage can start to occur, so ideally you'd need an ASETscope image to check for sure.

When looking, if you try to stick within these guidelines it will keep you within 'PS-recommended' specs

Table 54 - 58% (perhaps 59%)
Depth 60 - 62.4%
Pavilion Angle 40.6 - 40.9 degrees
Crown Angle 34 - 35 degrees (maybe 35.5 or even 36 degrees with shallow, 40.6 pavilion)

If pavilion angle increases, crown angle should decrease, and vice versa.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Welcome to the forum.

You should start your own thread in this part of the forum - this thread is for discussion of the PM83's search, so yours will get lost and it will be more confusing to search for in the future, for both you and others!

Thank you for your advice

 

[PM83]

The angles look like they might work together - put the info from the GCAL grading report into the HCA tool (under the Tools tab) to check what it scores if you want to make sure. Ideally you're looking for scores under 2.0 but up to mid-2s should be fine, just needing careful inspection.

I think the pavilion is probably too shallow, though - I believe 40.45 degrees is where leakage can start to occur, so ideally you'd need an ASETscope image to check for sure.

When looking, if you try to stick within these guidelines it will keep you within 'PS-recommended' specs

Table 54 - 58% (perhaps 59%)
Depth 60 - 62.4%
Pavilion Angle 40.6 - 40.9 degrees
Crown Angle 34 - 35 degrees (maybe 35.5 or even 36 degrees with shallow, 40.6 pavilion)

If pavilion angle increases, crown angle should decrease, and vice versa.

Thank you for this! Another thing I’ve noticed on the 360 videos is that some of the diamond arrows look black, whereas others look silvery/white is this indicative of anything regarding quality (I am only looking at diamonds within the preferred ranges for ideal) I’ve found a couple that I really like and the arrows look thick and symmetrical but are silvery/white I actually find that most look silvery and only a few diamonds have that dark contrast in the arrows. I would appreciate your opinion on this as well!

 

[PM83]

It’s me again so I have a bit of a dilemma.. I do prefer more fire over brilliance and I’ve read that CA of 35.0 with PA of 40.6-40.8 is the desired parameters for fire. I found a diamond that fits these parameters (Diamond A) however the arrows are not as nicely defined and doesn’t have much contrast compared to diamond B. The hca score for diamond A is 1.5. Diamond B however has CA of 34.0 and PA of 40.6 (shallow for both ca and pa) but has beautifully contrasted arrows and hca score of 0.6

Diamond A silvery arrows


Diamond B
Black arrows

Which one would you guys pick and why?

Thanks in advance

 

[OoohShiny]

It’s me again so I have a bit of a dilemma.. I do prefer more fire over brilliance and I’ve read that CA of 35.0 with PA of 40.6-40.8 is the desired parameters for fire. I found a diamond that fits these parameters (Diamond A) however the arrows are not as nicely defined and doesn’t have much contrast compared to diamond B. The hca score for diamond A is 1.5. Diamond B however has CA of 34.0 and PA of 40.6 (shallow for both ca and pa) but has beautifully contrasted arrows and hca score of 0.6

Diamond A silvery arrows


Diamond B
Black arrows

Which one would you guys pick and why?

Thanks in advance

Apologies for the slow reply on this!

It may be that one is nearer the camera than the other - the camera setups can be inconsistent, especially when there are a large number of operators doing all the picture taking.

The HCA of 0.6 suggests a shallower stone, as you note, and some of these can have issues with too much obstruction in 'the real world', but they can also be fine.

Which one calls to you most?

 

[PM83]

No problem at all thanks for your response! I have a question regarding fire... I would like my diamond to give off a lot of fire. The first diamond the one with the 35 crown and 40.8 Pavillion should that one give off a lot of fire? Does that combo favor fire or is it more of a balance between brilliance and fire?

Thanks in advance.

 

[OoohShiny]

Small table, high crown, shorter LGFs (75% therefore wider arrows) all generally speaking contribute to increasing the opportunity for fire

It is possible to create a lot of fire without some/all of these, as CBI does and John Pollard has previously detailed, but the science makes my brain hurt, lol.

 

[PM83]

Honestly, It’s making my brain hurt too! This one has a 57% table and I would say regular arrows not thin or wide, may bite the bullet we’ll see!

 

[OoohShiny]

Honestly, It’s making my brain hurt too! This one has a 57% table and I would say regular arrows not thin or wide, may bite the bullet we’ll see!

lol

57% table is still not 'large' so should be just fine!

Go with your gut - I like to think your first instincts are usually correct

 

[PM83]

I found another stone that has dark arrows, and has a crown of 34.0 with a Pavillion of 41.0. Do you happen to have any experience with these angles compared to one with a crown angle of 35.0 with Pavillion if 40.8 pertaining to which gives off more fire? The new one I found has a 58 table for reference. Unfortunately, It’s very difficult to make a decision when buying online and not being able to see the stones in person

 

[OoohShiny]

I found another stone that has dark arrows, and has a crown of 34.0 with a Pavillion of 41.0. Do you happen to have any experience with these angles compared to one with a crown angle of 35.0 with Pavillion if 40.8 pertaining to which gives off more fire? The new one I found has a 58 table for reference. Unfortunately, It’s very difficult to make a decision when buying online and not being able to see the stones in person

Unfortunately, and as always with diamonds, it is not as simple as one set of numbers being an easy way to make a decision... lol

This thread is useful:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-question-on-diamond-fire.250212/

and it links through to the WF technical page on fire, which is very good:
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/diamond-fire-1568.htm

and Jon's post on CBI fire not necessarily needing high crown/small table combinations (as previously mentioned)!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cbi-fire.242606/#post-4388614


My understanding is that generally speaking smaller tables increase the size of the star facets and upper girdle facets, which act on light exiting the diamond and will create dispersion (fan the white light out into fans of the rainbow colours within the white light, like that experiment you probably did with prisms at school, or the image on the front cover of that Pink Floyd 'the wall' (??) album). By reducing the size of the table you increase these other facets, which increases the opportunity for dispersion/fire.

Similarly, higher crowns increase the angle of the star facets and upper girdle facets, which also creates the opportunity for better dispersion, because the light is not exiting perpendicular to the facet (which would not affect the light at all) but instead hitting the facets at an angle and fanning out.

Wider arrows (caused by shorter lower girdle facets (LGFs), nearer 75% rather than 80% in MRBs) create larger reflections, and the larger reflections create larger dispersion fans when they fan out (if I understand it correctly). As you can see in the WF and CBI links above, the larger the rainbow dispersion fan, the more likely the viewer's pupil will see only a portion of the rainbow, which will be perceived as the coloured fire we like


I think....


So to attempt to put that into some form of way forward for you... I'd be tempted to say that you should look for tables between 54 and 57%, crown angles over 35 degrees, and perhaps LGFs nearer 75% than 80%.

BUT - caution can be needed, as a small table with short LGFs (fat arrows) can mean the under the table area is taken up mostly with the LGFs/arrows, and when they all go dark at the same time with obstruction/contrast from the viewer's head at normal on-the-finger viewing distances, it can make the area under the table look too dark. (This is similar to the risks with shallow stones and HCA scores under 1, if I understand things correctly).


I hope that's all correct - please do correct me if anyone reading this sees me talking nonsense! lol

 

[PM83]

Unfortunately, and as always with diamonds, it is not as simple as one set of numbers being an easy way to make a decision... lol

This thread is useful:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-question-on-diamond-fire.250212/

and it links through to the WF technical page on fire, which is very good:
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/diamond-fire-1568.htm

and Jon's post on CBI fire not necessarily needing high crown/small table combinations (as previously mentioned)!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cbi-fire.242606/#post-4388614


My understanding is that generally speaking smaller tables increase the size of the star facets and upper girdle facets, which act on light exiting the diamond and will create dispersion (fan the white light out into fans of the rainbow colours within the white light, like that experiment you probably did with prisms at school, or the image on the front cover of that Pink Floyd 'the wall' (??) album). By reducing the size of the table you increase these other facets, which increases the opportunity for dispersion/fire.

Similarly, higher crowns increase the angle of the star facets and upper girdle facets, which also creates the opportunity for better dispersion, because the light is not exiting perpendicular to the facet (which would not affect the light at all) but instead hitting the facets at an angle and fanning out.

Wider arrows (caused by shorter lower girdle facets (LGFs), nearer 75% rather than 80% in MRBs) create larger reflections, and the larger reflections create larger dispersion fans when they fan out (if I understand it correctly). As you can see in the WF and CBI links above, the larger the rainbow dispersion fan, the more likely the viewer's pupil will see only a portion of the rainbow, which will be perceived as the coloured fire we like


I think....


So to attempt to put that into some form of way forward for you... I'd be tempted to say that you should look for tables between 54 and 57%, crown angles over 35 degrees, and perhaps LGFs nearer 75% than 80%.

BUT - caution can be needed, as a small table with short LGFs (fat arrows) can mean the under the table area is taken up mostly with the LGFs/arrows, and when they all go dark at the same time with obstruction/contrast from the viewer's head at normal on-the-finger viewing distances, it can make the area under the table look too dark. (This is similar to the risks with shallow stones and HCA scores under 1, if I understand things correctly).


I hope that's all correct - please do correct me if anyone reading this sees me talking nonsense! lol

Thank you very much for taking the time to Explain all of this to me, it is appreciated! So far I think the one I have chosen will be a good one (at least I am really hoping so!) Would have been mire ideal if it were a smaller table however compared to other diamonds I’ve looked at this one has most of the parameters im looking for. Also, how would I go about finding out what the LGF is on this one?

Thanks!

 

[OoohShiny]

Thank you very much for taking the time to Explain all of this to me, it is appreciated! So far I think the one I have chosen will be a good one (at least I am really hoping so!) Would have been mire ideal if it were a smaller table however compared to other diamonds I’ve looked at this one has most of the parameters im looking for. Also, how would I go about finding out what the LGF is on this one?

Thanks!

I'm not sure if the LGF length is on GCAL or IGI certificates - from memory it isn't, which makes detailed assessment awkward but the stone images do give some indication of how 'fat' the arrows are (and we mustn't forget that the LGF measurement is an average of the eight LGFs on the diamond, which is then rounded up or down, so it's not a super-accurate figure anyway! )

 

[PM83]

Thanks for your response. Just from the info and the pic I posted earlier, does this stone look like it will be a good one? I appreciate your help and all of your knowledge and expertise.

Thanks!

 

[OoohShiny]

Thanks for your response. Just from the info and the pic I posted earlier, does this stone look like it will be a good one? I appreciate your help and all of your knowledge and expertise.

Thanks!

Wait, I'm getting confused... (I am multitasking with something else, which never helps, lol).

Can I just check which stone are we referring to?

 

[PM83]

Sorry! That’s my bad... the 1.56 with 57 table, 35 crown, 40.8 pav, 61.2 depth. Hca score of 1.5

 

[OoohShiny]

Sorry! That’s my bad... the 1.56 with 57 table, 35 crown, 40.8 pav, 61.2 depth. Hca score of 1.5

The HCA score indicates the angles work, it looks very clean in the image, and the faceting looks pretty symmetrical / consistent.

An ASETscope image would confirm cutting accuracy and any leakage, but from here, it looks like a good option.

Make sure to confirm the Returns policies and processes and any costs before you buy, and any upgrade policies you may wish to use!

Make sure to check out other similar stones on other sites for a price comparison too, although as I have ranted on here before, consistency in pricing across the MMD market is sorely lacking right now... lol. Ritani might be a good place to check - they list the cost of the stones to them and then their uplift, so I would hope the manufacturer cost is broadly consistent across the market?!

 

[lovedogs]

The HCA score indicates the angles work, it looks very clean in the image, and the faceting looks pretty symmetrical / consistent.

An ASETscope image would confirm cutting accuracy and any leakage, but from here, it looks like a good option.

Make sure to confirm the Returns policies and processes and any costs before you buy, and any upgrade policies you may wish to use!

Make sure to check out other similar stones on other sites for a price comparison too, although as I have ranted on here before, consistency in pricing across the MMD market is sorely lacking right now... lol. Ritani might be a good place to check - they list the cost of the stones to them and then their uplift, so I would hope the manufacturer cost is broadly consistent across the market?!

Agreed, I think this looks good, but BE's policies are horrendous, and they are a shady company. So if OP has any doubts or might want to return/exchange/upgrade, I would go with a different vendor.