Book for LaraOnline

[Imdanny]

Hi Lara,

I'd like to recommend this set of books you might enjoy.

http://www.amazon.com/Poems-Emily-Dickinson-Variorum/dp/067467622X

The best way for me to say what I want to say about this is to quote a review of a DIFFERENT book and then I'll make a few brief comments.

"A now superseded major achievement in an atrocious binding., November 3, 2001
By tepi "tepi"
THE POEMS OF EMILY DICKINSON, INCLUDING VARIANT READINGS CRITICALLY COMPARED WITH ALL KNOWN MANUSCRIPTS. Edited by Thomas H. Johnson. 3 vols. Cambridge, Mass., and London, England: The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, nd. [A single-volume reprint of the original 1955 3-vol. edition]. ISBN 0-674-67601-7 HBK.

Prior to the appearance of Johnson's great variorum edition of Emily Dickinson in 1955, an edition which was the first to offer readers accurate texts of her complete poems, it was not possible to arrive at a just estimation of her tremendous achievement, an achievement that places her at the forefront of the ranks of the world's greatest poets. Because of the highly idiosyncratic nature of her poems, all earlier editors had felt obliged, to some extent or other, and in order to make them more acceptable to the public, to normalize them by adding titles, smoothing her rhymes, changing words, regularizing punctuation, and relineating them; some editors even went so far as to remove entire stanzas. It becomes a tribute to the power of her poems that, despite this savage treament they somehow survived, and there are many readers, even today, who have grown to love these mutilated versions without ever realizing just how far removed they are from her originals.

Although Johnson himself wasn't entirely free of the slash-and-burn approach to ED's texts - since he apparently felt that readers weren't yet ready for the peculiar lineation that we find in Emily Dickinson's own handwritten versions of the poems - he should nevertheless be credited with having brought the worst of it to an end, and for having given us texts that are closer to the originals than ever before. He is also to be credited with having established an approximate chronological order for the 1775 poems in his edition, and for having provided us with a convenient way of referring to these untitled poems by giving each of them a number, the well-known 'Johnson numbers' which are still standard today. Each numbered poem has been transcribed exactly as it is found in the manuscripts, though with his editorial choice of variant and with lineation normalized. Below each poem comes a list of variants, information about the poem's manuscript source/s, and its publication history. The poems are preceded by 70 pages of Introductory material, which include 20 pages of very interesting photographic facsimiles in illustration of ED's varied writing styles, and the book is rounded out with an Appendix, a Subject Index, and an Index of First Lines.

The present version is an undated reprint, in one volume, of the original 1955 3-volume edition, and is a substantial book of over 1300 pages weighing in at a hefty 4lbs plus. Given the fantastic price of the book, I was amazed to discover that, although bound in full cloth, instead of the pages being sewn in signatures it has been given a glued spine which is nowhere near strong enough to hold the weight of all these pages. Although I'm pretty careful with books, the brand-new copy I examined split at the spine the first time I opened it. Anyone who is interested in the Johnson variorum would be well advised to search for a copy of the much better produced earlier and stitched 3-volume version. Although the present book deserves more than 5 stars for its content, it deserves far less for its poor physical makeup.

As a contribution to scholarship, Johnson's variorum was a magnificent achievement for its time, and helped greatly in establishing Emily Dickinson's reputation. But much has come to light since 1955, and R. W. Franklin's richer 1998 variorum (which unlike the Johnson provides details of the original lineation) may now be said to have superseded it. Details of the Franklin variorum are as follows:

THE POEMS OF EMILY DICKINSON : VARIORUM EDITION. Edited by R. W. Franklin. 3 vols. Cambridge, Mass., and London, England: The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 1998. ISBN 0-674-67622X HBK."

The authoritative scholarship in the US about Emily Dickinson has been done at Harvard. Thomas H. Johnson worked there and in 1955 he edited the variorum edition of her poems reviewed in my quote. A version of this variorum edition choosing a single version of each poem was also edited by Thomas H. Johnson, and that is what I have read (three times). I always wanted to read his variorum edition but before Amazon I was under the impression it could only be found at Harvard. I never saw it for sale anywhere in the US.

I haven't read Franklin's recent variorum edition, but I am going to buy it (even though it is expensive) because Thomas H. Johnson made some wrong decisions (in bold text in my quote) that changed the poems in ways he should not have.

If you want to see what Emily Dickinson wrote down on paper, R. W. Franklin's 3 volumes are the only way to do it (other than looking at the manuscripts, and you would need to go to the libraries at Harvard and Amherest, and even at that you would need permission). I'm looking forward to reading her poems the way she wrote them, the different versions she wrote of each one, in a way that's faithful to what she actually wrote down on paper.

I thought I'd tell you about this edition because I just found out about it myself and I know you are a fan.

 

[LaraOnline]

Hey I'mDanny, thanks for the link!
I discovered Emily at uni, and although I didn't study her formally (ie through my uni classes) I soon picked up that there had been an incredibly arrogant editing process for a lot of her stuff.

Perhaps I shouldn't say 'incredibly arrogant' - it makes me sound... aggressive... but honestly, so much of my enjoyment of her work came through her punctuation!

It is interesting to see you mentioning that straight up in this thread... even when perusing Dickinson websites, I am surprised at the changes made to the poems!

My first introduction to her work was, I think, through a late night religious documentary. In many ways this is quite appropriate, because her poetry has an amazing ability to get to 'the nub of things' ...and of course so much of her poetry reflects her background.

One of my most precious possessions ever that has travelled with me all over the world, is a paperback book of her poems, more of a booklet really, imaginatively entitled 'A Choice of Emily Dickinson's Verse: Selected and with an introduction by Ted Hughes' Faber&Faber, London 1968. The poems selected in this book were originally edited by Thomas H. Johnson.

I can still remember the sensation of discovering this secondhand book on the shelf.

I also had a T-shirt of a cartoon caricature of her... she was bent up in a box, staggerig in her button-up boots as she pressed her back against the top, trying in vain to escape...

Thank you for the links! I will come back to this thread and look through more carefully when my kids are not clamouring for my attention (as they are right now!!)...

What are your favourite poems, particularly? Which was the first that made an impression? How did you meet up with her poems??

 

[Imdanny]

Lara, you''re welcome!! Please give me 24 hrs and I''ll be able to give your post the attention it deserves. Thanks!

 

[Imdanny]

Edit, Thomas H. Johnson was not on staff at Harvard. He served as a guest lecturer.

http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/getEad?id=ark:/88435/6w924b858

Edit, from "Emily Dickinson" - Wikipedia:

"The Amherst Jones Library's Special Collections department has an Emily Dickinson Collection consisting of approximately seven thousand items, including original manuscript poems and letters, family correspondence, scholarly articles and books, newspaper clippings, theses, plays, photographs and contemporary artwork and prints.[159] The Archives and Special Collections at Amherst College has substantial holdings of Dickinson's manuscripts and letters as well as a lock of Dickinson's hair and the original of the only positively identified image of the poet. Dickinson's herbarium, which is now held in the Houghton Library at Harvard University, was published in 2006 as Emily Dickinson's Herbarium by Harvard University Press."

I looked this up and it means "the Jones Library System," the Amherst branch, the public library in Amherst.

So Amherst College has a lot, Harvard has the herbarium, and Amherst's public library has the rest.

Ok, having corrected these errors, I'll answer your post, Lara.

 

[Imdanny]

"I discovered Emily at uni,..."

High school, literature anthology.


"and although I didn't study her formally (ie through my uni classes)"

Limited study. A memorization tutorial in college.


"I soon picked up that there had been an incredibly arrogant editing process for a lot of her stuff.

Perhaps I shouldn't say 'incredibly arrogant' - it makes me sound... aggressive... but honestly, so much of my enjoyment of her work came through her punctuation!


It is interesting to see you mentioning that straight up in this thread... even when perusing Dickinson websites, I am surprised at the changes made to the poems!"


"incredibly arrogant" sounds just fine to me.


"My first introduction to her work was, I think, through a late night religious documentary. In many ways this is quite appropriate, because her poetry has an amazing ability to get to 'the nub of things' ...and of course so much of her poetry reflects her background.

No, that doesn't surprise me at all. Religion is essential to her poetry. I can't believe how many critics miss this. It's surprising to me she doesn't have a reputation so much of being a religious person. She certainly was one.


"One of my most precious possessions ever that has travelled with me all over the world, is a paperback book of her poems, more of a booklet really, imaginatively entitled 'A Choice of Emily Dickinson's Verse: Selected and with an introduction by Ted Hughes' Faber&Faber, London 1968. The poems selected in this book were originally edited by Thomas H. Johnson.


I can still remember the sensation of discovering this secondhand book on the shelf."

I enjoyed reading this! My first Thomas H. Johnson book of her poems was read and then looked through enough that its paperback binding fell apart. I used a hole punch on the pages and put the book back together with the kind of binder you use for a book report.


"I also had a T-shirt of a cartoon caricature of her... she was bent up in a box, staggerig in her button-up boots as she pressed her back against the top, trying in vain to escape..."

That's great!


"Thank you for the links! I will come back to this thread and look through more carefully when my kids are not clamouring for my attention (as they are right now!!)..."

My pleasure.


"What are your favourite poems, particularly? Which was the first that made an impression? How did you meet up with her poems??"

The last question I answered, so my favorite ones, and the one that first made an impression...

The one that first made an impression, in the anthology I mentioned-

Because I could not stop for Death —
He kindly stopped for me —
The Carriage held but just Ourselves —
And Immortality.

We slowly drove — He knew no haste
And I had put away
My labor and my leisure too,
For His Civility —

We passed the School, where Children strove
At Recess — in the Ring —
We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain —
We passed the Setting Sun —

Or rather — He passed Us —
The Dews drew quivering and chill —
For only Gossamer, my Gown —
My Tippet — only Tulle —

We paused before a House that seemed
A Swelling of the Ground —
The Roof was scarcely visible —
The Cornice — in the Ground —

Since then — 'tis Centuries — and yet
Feels shorter than the Day
I first surmised the Horses' Heads
Were toward Eternity —

My favorite ones? The one your signature line is from is one of my favorite ones. It's one of the ones I memorized and had to recite for my memorization tutorial. We got to choose what we wanted. The only requirement was it had to be a certain number of lines. Other than these two, there's definitely ones that I like more than others. It's hard to explain but I remember lines from her poetry all the time.

A Dying Tiger—moaned for Drink—
I hunted all the Sand—
I caught the Dripping of a Rock
And bore it in my Hand—

and things like that. I have made posts at forums where I've copied favorites. There's no way to post them all and invariably it's a choice of narrowing them down. Thanks for asking, Lara.

 

[Imdanny]

Lara, do you have any favorites? I'd like to hear about it. I'll be honest, this is the first time I've met someone who I thought loved and understood Emily Dickinson's poetry as much as I do. I knew many people who liked and respected Emily Dickinson's poetry very much, but that's not the same. Is there a poem that first made an impression on you?

 

[LaraOnline]

Hi there Dan! (my sister's named Dan too!

)
Did you order this book? Are you getting it? Has it come? I think I might order it as well, next pay day.
The thing is, ordering from Amazon from this end of the globe is a total biatsh because the postage costs often as much as the package, or more.

*sigh* now I want to get the trio of recommended works as well! Have you read any of her letters? I think these would be interesting, not least because of the Civil War and her independent mind, but also her drawn out and somewhat desperate affection for the Reverend (all this is from memory) , and then, of course, her break down at around 40, when she realised she would not be marrying after all....

She is really the most beautiful little bird 'small, like the Wren, and my hair is bold, like the Chestnut bur - and my eyes, like the Sherry in the Glass, that the Guest leaves'...

I don't doubt that religious minded people find a great deal in her work, but there is more than a little of the LIW within her... she spoke to me as a young undergraduate, she seems so restless, romantic, burning and idealistic in a way that I think should appeal to a very many young women. She existed within a Puritanical world, but she doesn't seem Puritanical to me!

perhaps she fuelled my sense of LIW-itis! Could I blame Emily for hanging around for 'that' deadbeat for so long?

While of course, the line that is quoted in my signature is my favourite line of any poem - EVER - there are so many other aspects of her poetry.

Indeed, as she said herself (recited only from memory): 'If I feel as though the top of my head has been taken off, I know that is poetry!'

That line, though, I feel, illuminates a facet of reality - of love - of inspiration - of wisdom... that for wisdom, particularly spiritual wisdom, one must look beyond the mechanical workings of the every day mind, which so often struggles to grind, like a mincing machine, through the facts and experiences to which it has reference.

And then a Plank in Reason, broke,
And I dropped down, and down -
And hit a World, at every plunge,
And Finished knowing - then -

That the poem ends like this, with the hyphen, no less, really triggered something in me. She was like a guru, talking about enlightenment, the first time I read this poem!!

Shall I mention my two favourite LIW-style poems? I think I have probably posted these quotes before, as they are my favourites, but... well I just can't help myself!!

THE SOUL selects her own Society -
Then - shuts the Door -
To her divine Majority -
Present no more -

Unmoved - she notes the Chariots - pausing
At her low Gate -
Unmoved - an Emperor be kneeling
Upon her Mat -

I’ve known her - from an ample nation -
Choose One -
Then - close the Valves of her attention -
Like Stone -

Oh man, I love that poem. How can you have stone valves??!! For some reason, the poem always reminds me of the Egyptian Sphinx.

But then I love this one just as much... and it happened to me! I got picked!!!!

MY Life had stood - a Loaded Gun -
In Corners - till a Day
The Owner passed - identified -
And carried Me away -

And now We roam in Sovereign Woods -
And now We hunt the Doe -
And every time I speak for Him -
The Mountains straight reply -

And do I smile, such cordial light
Upon the Valley glow -
It is as a Vesuvian face
Had let its pleasure through -

And when at Night - Our good Day done -
I guard My Master's Head -
'Tis better than the Eider-Ducks's
Deep Pillow - to have shared -

To foe of His - I'm deadly foe -
None stir the second time -
On whom I lay a Yellow Eye -
Or an emphatic Thumb -

Though I than He - may longer live
He longer must - than I -
For I have but the power to kill,
Without - the power to die -


I love it 'Yellow Eye' haha

 

[LaraOnline]

Because I could not stop for Death is definitely one of my early favourites too!

Doesn't it seem morbid when you try and introduce others to her poetry?!! But it is just ... so cool! I love how she goes past the school yard, it is poignant.

When I think of that poem, I always think of the other one I love:

I died for Beauty - but was Scarce
Adjusted in the Tomb
When One who died for Truth, was lain
In an adjoining Room -

He questioned softly, 'Why I failed'?
'For Beauty,' I replied -
'And I - for Truth - Themselves are One -
We Brethren, are,' He said -

And so, as Kinsmen, met a Night -
We talked between the Rooms -
Until the Moss had reached our lips -
And covered up - our names -

The last two lines of that poem just sends shivers down my spine. That identity, and self-expression could be synonymous with life!

There is another one, the first line of which always seemed ...interesting to me... as if Emily was a little cynical that day, as if she was struggling with the germ of an idea that did not gel with long-accepted 'truths':

I haerd a Fly buzz - when I died -
The Stillness in the Room
Was like the Stillness in the Air -
Between the Heaves of Storm

The Eyes around - had wrung them dry -
And Breaths were gathering firm
For that last Onset - when the King
Be witnessed - in the Room -

I willed my Keepsakes - Signed away
What portion of me be
Assignable - and then it was
There interposed a Fly -

With Blue - uncertain stumbling Buss -
Between the light - and me -
And then the Windows failed - and then
I could not see to see -

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/27/2009 3:10:47 AM
Author: Imdanny
Lara, do you have any favorites? I''d like to hear about it. I''ll be honest, this is the first time I''ve met someone who I thought loved and understood Emily Dickinson''s poetry as much as I do. I knew many people who liked and respected Emily Dickinson''s poetry very much, but that''s not the same. Is there a poem that first made an impression on you?

The thing about her poetry is that it does not come across as an intellectual game of hers, to me. She writes as if her poem was a physical dance, it is incredibly intense and energetic, it seems intensely physical.

It seems a great shame to me that she was never married, perhaps she would have been too much for the men that were available to her. She seemed someone who craved physical affection and sexual love.
She also seemed very smart, probably too smart by half. She kept her own counsel, and did not take on the political and religious agitations of those close to her. Methinks she probably had enough personal agitations of her own!!

Her poetry correspondent Higginson referred to her as his ''half-cracked poetess'', who ''drained his nerve-power'' with her ''wanton over-statement''.

To me, not coming from any kind of religious or social background whatever, she seemed to illuminate within me a desire for a spiritual life and a romantic love that encompassed a spiritual ideal beyond the scope even of any formalised church group (of course I would never have dreamed of identifying with any church group, let alone attending!). I guess the Catholic girl would have turned to the Virgin Mary, of course I have only discovered the Virgin Mary in later life...

Art, particularly literary art, seemed to me at the time to be a particular conduit to the spiritual. Now, of course, I see that much of literature and other art is depressingly morbid and earth based.

But not Emily!
She seemed wild to me, and incredibly frustrated. I was a broke undergraduate, wondering what on earth I was put on the planet to do, trying to scrape together money for bus fare to a uni that bored me to tears, living in a share house that was falling down around me, surrounded by boymen that really had very little to offer me... and I felt I gained strength and patience from observing the place where Emily was coming from!!!

 

[Imdanny]

Hi Lara!


You've written many interesting comments! Thanks! Yes, I have read some of her letters. I read Thomas H. Johnson's "selected letters" book. I want to read all her letters some day but I've got to concentrate on getting this set and reading it! I wish I had it! I am saving for a ring and I was saving before I found this, so this is going to have to wait until I have my ring. If I don't make myself save for the ring, I'll never get it. She says some great things in her letters- "I know it's poetry when..." is the most famous thing she said other than her poetry and rightly so IMO. A lot of her letters to Higginson are sarcastic (in a beautiful way). They're great. You know, anything that has to do with her is something I want to read or see. I could kick myself. I never went to Amherest to vist her homestead and graveside, and I could have driven there on the Taconic and Mass. turnpike and got off at the Amherest exist. I just didn't make time for it when I was living in New York state and then I moved. Now it's so far away and I'll probably never get there.

At least there's more and more available on the internet all the time! I have introduced her to many people. I've even bought a few people paperback copies of Thomas H. Johnson's edition of her poems. It was frustrating because it was like they didn't know what I was talking about.

They always seem to think a) she's really strange b) who likes poetry, that's not something you read after you get out of school, or c) 'it's all about death- oh noes!". LOL!

But make no mistake, I'm going to get this set.

 

[Imdanny]

I found this at Wikipedia''s entry for her. This is the first time I''ve seen one of the manuscripts.

 

[Imdanny]

Oops, I couldn't make it load. Here's the link where you can find it. There's two. I was trying to load the first one. They're both nice of course. I think the first one is nicer to look at (probably because it wasn't in a letter and she was not trying to write legibly) and it's the first one I saw and clicked on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Dickinson

 

[LaraOnline]

They did think she was mad, didn't they?! The editors that slashed her work to bits?

A thought occurred to me last night, that to me she appears way more passionate than Jane Austen.. more 'out there', all guns loaded...and struggles with many of the same issues through her poetry (and so much more besides) and also through the example of her life...

Is she popular in the US? Do you think it is her form (poetry) and lack of narrative that sees her left in the background of popular culture, (if indeed she is so, that is!)?

 

[Imdanny]

Lara,

I can assure you that she is beloved in the US. She has become a part of the popular culture, with many songs, plays, and fiction and non-fiction books written based on her work and life. I can also tell you that in all literature departments (Amherst College is one of our best and hardest to get into colleges, BTW, but aside from that I mean Harvard, Yale, the rest of the Ivy League, the Seven Sisters, and any other school out of the 1,700 we have if it has a literature department) she is held in the highest esteem. In fact, she is considered to be among the best poets in US history. Some people narrow these choices down to her and Walt Whitman, and these people do not choose one above the other. She is considered to have been an "eccentric." Nobody would say that she was mad. Her "public image" is one where people respect her and even if they have not read her poems, everyone knows she is someone important, I mean even if they couldn't tell you why. She is renowned in my country. We are very proud of her.

I should clarify that when I said some people think she is really strange, I meant they think her work is really strange, meaning they don't like poetry, and don't understand artists, the value of any artists or any art. It's like if I say, "I like Mozart," I mean his music. They're not saying "she's mad so you shouldn't listen to what she says" or "she lived an unusual life so her poetry isn't good."

As far as the editing, it is true that her editors tried to edit her poems for a mass audience, and did not believe the public could handle her original way of writing poetry. It astounds me that an editor should think he or she knows better than Emily Dickinson where a line in her poem should be placed. I know when I too google her poems I find a lot of bad editing. A lot of people don't care enough about literature or music to consider authenticity valuable. In this regard, I don't think the treatment of her work is unusual at this point. I see the same thing with every other poet and composer.

 

[LaraOnline]

Yes, I suppose the editing should be seen within its historical context, as well, where there was more (much more) emphasis on maintaining form, and tradition.

Speaking of Walt Whitman, I wonder how strongly he was edited when he first emerged?

One good thing about dispensing with grammar, perhaps, is that we are much more comfortable with experimental forms these days! Or... do they still teach grammar in the US public school system these days (long dispensed with over here, an education department position which is still hotly debated within the mainstream media every few months!!)

It is good to hear that she IS popular in the country of her birth... well, I guess, how could she not be?!

Amherst is an important historical town, as well, isn''t it. I should google at least before touching on subjects about which I know nothing. But the name rings a bell, not just in relation to Emily Dickinson, but in connection with other major cultural and historical events. Was it famous primarily for its geographical position within the Civil War?

 

[Imdanny]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord,_Massachusetts

Pretty close. You're probably thinking about Concord, Massachusetts. It was the Revolutionary War though not the Civil War.

It's been 20 years since I was in school so I don't know whether they teach grammar. They didn't teach it to us formally as much as they taught it to my mother's generation. I know that.

I don't know if Walt Whitman has been edited in such an awful way. Don't quote me on this but I think they published his "Leaves of Grass" pretty much as he wrote it. I don't know though because once I found Emily Dickinson I didn't want to read very much of any other poet.

 

[LaraOnline]

OMG so there was the Revolutionary War and then the Civil War later well of course... I guess I had them bundled up in my mind, as one big ''deal''... I mean, how could one country have two major (kinda civil) wars??? in period costume??? And where does the wild west come into it?! embarrassing... as you can see, I''ve never studies US history!!!

Anyway, now that I''ve outed myself as an idiot... why do you think Emily was edited so much? Was it because she wrote in a crazy fashion... or was it because she was who she was (''half-cracked poetess'' and all)
All those dashes are pretty....energetic!!

 

[Imdanny]

LOL, Lara!! Like I could answer questions about Australia! No worries.

I think, in fact I feel strongly about it, that it is the former. They wanted to turn her work into a conventional form, because people like convention and conformity. She said, "I dwell in possibility, a fairer house than prose." You probably remember that poem. It''s another one of my favorites. I think we have to remember here that we''re talking about a very rare kind of a genius, one whose work is immortal.

Listen, let''s make a pact that if one of us gets these books we''ll post about it? I can''t get them now, but I will after I get a few other things I want/ need.

It''s been a lot of fun talking to you and hearing about your appreciation of her and your impressions!

 

[Imdanny]

And, BTW, here is one of my favorites that might appeal to you too.

Some keep the Sabbath going to the Church —
I keep it, staying at Home —
With a Bobolink for a Chorister —
And an Orchard, for a Dome —

Some keep the Sabbath in Surplice —
I just wear my Wings —
And instead of tolling the Bell, for Church,
Our little Sexton — sings.

God preaches, a noted Clergyman —
And the sermon is never long,
So instead of getting to Heaven, at last —
I''m going, all along.

 

[LaraOnline]

It seems like you want to finish up this conversation right now, Dan, but tell me... why do YOU respond to her poetry so well? Is it primarily from the religious angle? Or because her take on religion is a little...independent and fresh in its view?
Or for some other reason? (Such as her fiesty femininity, a little out of step with the expectations surrounding her at the time?)

 

[Imdanny]

Date: 4/29/2009 6:31:34 AM
Author: LaraOnline
It seems like you want to finish up this conversation right now, Dan, but tell me... why do YOU respond to her poetry so well? Is it primarily from the religious angle? Or because her take on religion is a little...independent and fresh in its view?

Or for some other reason? (Such as her fiesty femininity, a little out of step with the expectations surrounding her at the time?)

Lara, thanks for asking. It's the spiritual aspect of it, but part of that is Christianity, and I feel she taught me the true, spiritual nature of Christianity, a way of describing truth.

I also like the sound of it. The beauty of it, when it's read aloud, and the rhythm of it. I like the unique phrases she uses to describe things. Nobody on Earth would have said what she said or will come close to saying it in the same way.

I had many experiences when I was the age you were describing yourself as being when you found your book and she gave me a kind of spiritual compass, something I could understand and appreciate outside of the bounds of organized religion. Organized religion wasn't fun- things like our family going to church and the ladies saying things like- "we haven't seen YOU in a long time" to us- like if you don't go to church every Sunday or don't go to church at all then you're a bad person- GMAB.

What I meant to say is that I do NOT want to end this discussion with you as much as I want to continue it later if and when one of gets these books! But if you have more to say/ ask, I am more than happy to continue it.

 

[LaraOnline]

Her dashes seemed to me to more closely approximate private thought - it is as the critics say about her work - there is an immediacy to her, as if the thought is freshly occurring within a private mind, like a dewdrop of crystal, perfectly formed...

In relation to truth vs beauty, this is a point I wanted to make earlier... she really showed me that the concept of truth being related to beauty was, although an oldfashioned idea, perhaps still relevant within certain aspects.

I mean, personally up until meeting with Emily Dickinson, I had felt alienated from the truth equals beauty position, because so much of what passes for beauty in the modern media is peculiarly focussed on the beauty of the feminine form, with all the trappings and artifice that have no particular truthful direction whatsoever! So in many ways, I think the modern association of beauty is actually with commerce.

However, by harking back to Emily's more dignified and less frenetically marketed age, I could see a mental space where truth and beauty could be identified with each other... after all, spiritual truth is very much associated with spiritual beauty, does it not? The idea of beauty as a perceived, but not necessarily 'sighted with the outer eyes' experience - more like a beautiful perfume, or the sudden comprehension of a wonderful idea - is an interesting concept to me.

 

[Imdanny]

Spiritual truth is related to spiritual beauty. Spiritual beauty is also related to physical beauty, notably in Plato's Symposium. The overall point though is transcendence. What Emily Dickinson does is equate truth with beauty. What Plato said was epistemology (knowing) is the truth of what he called "the form" of the beautiful itself. He starts out by saying the body is beautiful. Well, other bodies are beautiful. So he decides there is more too it than the beauty in bodies if that isn't unique to individuals, then he moves on to pursuits are beautiful, and he goes on and on like that all of those categories transcending the other in succession until he arrives at "the form" of beauty, the transcendence of all of the previous categories on his list, at the lesson of "the beautiful itself." "I died for beauty, but was scare adjusted in the tomb, when one who died for truth, was lain in an adjoining room" leading to (paraphrasing) "the moss had covered up our names" means that 'the way of knowing' (truth) is ultimately (by way of transcendence) real beauty. It isn't any of those other things, physical beauty, beauty as defined by commercialism, conventional beauty, etc. So I agree with you on that.

As to Emily Dickinson writing her poems as private thoughts, yes, of course, but I also have to point out that she wrote them as public thoughts:

Of Bronze-and Blaze-
The North-Tonight-
So adequate-it forms-
So preconcerted with itself-
So distant-to alarms-
And Unconcern so sovereign
To Universe, or me-
Infects my simple spirit
With Taints of Majesty-
Till I take vaster attitudes-
And strut upon my stem-
Disdaining Men, and Oxygen,
For Arrogance of them-

My Splendors, are Menagerie-
But their Completeless Show
Will entertain the Centuries
When I, am long ago,
An Island in dishonored Grass-
Whom none but Beetles-know.