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Blue Nile Appraisal

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diablo

Rough_Rock
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Dec 7, 2004
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I just purchased a ring from Blue Nile for about $7k. When I received it there was an appraisal included from a Blue Nile Gemologist giving a retail replacement value of over $11k. Surely the replacement cost is roughly the same as what I paid ? Would I be paying for unnecessary insurance if I use this appraisal ? Are Blue Nile trying to convince me that I got a great deal ?
 

newenglandgemlab

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Blue Nile always provides an inflated appraisal with their diamond engagement ring purchases. It is the only issue I have with them. Yes, it will cost you more in premiums and may not get you the 11k if somehting happens. Unless you have a cash out policy with Chubb (who they have a deal with) which will cost you more for starters. You know you can replace the ring tomorrow for what you paid. I sometimes go a tad higher to cover the cost of research etc...

Happy New Year! Cindy
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Yes and Yes. Blue Nile is actually better than most about this issue. I''ve seen customers come in with ''appraisals'' supplied by the seller that report a number 20x the purchase price
6.gif


Fortunately, such documents are usually free; and worth every penny of it.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

lmurden

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I totally disagree about Blue Nile appraisal being overly inflated! A local appraiser appraised my ring for MORE than Blue Nile. On a side note you can''t go wrong with Chubb Insurance.
 

RockDoc

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This is very "dangerous"..

Firstly, Blue Nile has NO BUSINESS appraising items they sold. An appraisal must be INDEPENDENT. A seller is not independent.

They are an interested party.

If the consumer takes a stone that is appraised by the seller for more and knowingly insures it for more than he paid he risks having a future claim denied.

Put yourself in the insurance company''s position. Do you want the potential risk of having to pay out 11K for a stone worth 7K?

At a minimum, if a seller authors such a document the report needs to disclose how much was paid, and it must justify HOW and WHY it should be insured for more. If the company issues the policy being informed up front, then there isn''t wiggle room if and when there is a claim. Insurance companies usually have paragraphs in their policies which require insured to disclose any material fact that would affect the policy.. The above is a perfect example.

So overpaying for insurance isn''t the only problem with overstated values.....on these "feel good reports"

Rockdoc
 

lmurden

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If Blue Nile has no business appraising an item that they sell why haven''t you reported them to the JVC or BBB?
 

newenglandgemlab

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It would be ethical of them to offer a Documentation of Purchase stating what they sold and what the grade is and what the price is they sold it for. Any inflated appraisal is not ethical in the eyes of the JVC. Cindy
 

strmrdr

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imho,
I think that cost + 30% and review every 3 years is the way to go.
If you insure it too close to what you paid for it you might not be able to get enough for a replacement a year down the road.
Some policies will cover it if it is a small percentage over the insured amount so it pays to read the specific policy.
On a $7000 ring my opinion would be insure it for around $9100.

This brings us back to seller appraisals while the appraisers raise good points I dont think its as black and white as they paint it.
You can get a good appraisal from the seller the problem is that most arent.
But even if the appraisal is reasonable if you decide to trust it you need to educate yourself enough that you can id your diamond and know the upside and downsides to the characteristics of that diamond.

Its never a bad idea to have a good independant appraiser go over any diamond purchase.
That we all agree on.
 

denverappraiser

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Date: 12/29/2004 11:40:11 AM
Author: lmurden
If Blue Nile has no business appraising an item that they sell why haven''t you reported them to the JVC or BBB?
Cindy''s post is dead on. What they are giving isn''t an appraisal and it shouldn''t be called one. Providing clients with documentation that will assist them with their insurance needs is a valuable service and I applaud dealers who offer it. Calling these documents appraisals encourages consumers to believe things that are simply not true, even in cases where the facts represented are fundamentally correct. JVC has a clear policy on this, and what BN (and many other jewelers) are doing is a clear violation of that policy.

JVC is toothless.
BBB even more so.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

RockDoc

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Date: 12/30/2004 8:22:28 AM
Author: strmrdr
imho,
I think that cost + 30% and review every 3 years is the way to go.
If you insure it too close to what you paid for it you might not be able to get enough for a replacement a year down the road.
Some policies will cover it if it is a small percentage over the insured amount so it pays to read the specific policy.
On a $7000 ring my opinion would be insure it for around $9100.

This brings us back to seller appraisals while the appraisers raise good points I dont think its as black and white as they paint it.
You can get a good appraisal from the seller the problem is that most arent.
But even if the appraisal is reasonable if you decide to trust it you need to educate yourself enough that you can id your diamond and know the upside and downsides to the characteristics of that diamond.

Its never a bad idea to have a good independant appraiser go over any diamond purchase.
That we all agree on.
Chubb''s policy automatically includes an "inflation guard"... If the cost of replacement is more than the amount insured, they will pay up to 50% more if that can be proven.

Insuring the item with a "pad" for replacement, seems like its the prudent thing to do, but the difference in the cost of the premiums might make Chubb''s policy actually less than the replacement type. The Chubb policy at least gives the insured a positive answer to claim settlement, while in the replacement policy, depending on the quote from the replacement company the insurance company uses, the insured doesn''t learn the facts till AFTER the loss occurs.

There are other insurance companies that sell AS AGREED of VALUED AT policies.. Chubb is the best known - but consumers here should check with various local insurance agents to get the complete and proper facts for their locale.

Rockdoc
 

RockDoc

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Date: 12/30/2004 5:43
6.gif
6 AM
Author: newenglandgemlab
It would be ethical of them to offer a Documentation of Purchase stating what they sold and what the grade is and what the price is they sold it for. Any inflated appraisal is not ethical in the eyes of the JVC. Cindy

Cindy....

The JVC in these matters are useless. Remember that the JVC supports the industry, not primarilly the consumer. Instead of setting a standard of state by state case law and statute law, which should be taiught in each state, they want to have interested member to become part of a club and take courses to increase their revenue. This will paint a picture of well credentialed appraisers when in fact their knowledge will really be limited thus misleading consumers. The site http://www.appraisersunderoath.com speaks more directly to this situation.


Their recent efforts to make a "bar" association demonstrates how limited their knowledge is in valuation.

The BBB is also limited in what it does. It collects its funding from merchants, and basically mails out requests on behalf of consumers to resolve the matter a consumer might complain about. They won''t take a violator to court, and leave that to the consumer himself (or herself) to resolve in the instance of an uncooperative merchant.

Rockdoc
 

denverappraiser

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Date: 12/30/2004 11:34:26 AM
Author: Feydakin


Except, of course, some of us do have legitemate, fair, and honest appraisers on staff that do appraise items all day long that sell, have sold, and have never seen before.. The policy on appraisals, as I understand it, is that we appraise for what we would actually sell the item for.. Nothing more, nothing less.. The continued attacks on anyone that sells and appraises as not being able to fairly appraise and somehow unethical gets old..

Steve,

I am making no such claim, and I don''t think Cindy is either but I''m sure she will answer for herself.

Describing an item that you are selling is not an appraisal, it''s a receipt. This in no way suggests that the person doing this discription is not fully qualified to appraise or that their description of this item is in any way inaccurate or inadequate. My guess it that my only issue with your appraisers is their use of the word ''appraisal'' to describe this kind of report. I''m sure there are many other areas where I would agree that they are offering appraisal services and the fact that they work for a jewelery store can serve as a great advantage with certain kinds of assignments. I, and most appraisers that I know, regularly offer services that cannot be properly called appraisals. I call them other things. I don''t see this as a problem and it''s certainly not an attack on your staff (or on Blue Nile''s).

Inflated appraisals are regularly used to encourage customers to believe that an item has a fixed number, assigned by an unrelated 3rd party that represents the ''worth'' of that item and that this value is unconnected to market activity. This is simply untrue.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

newenglandgemlab

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
316
Hi Steve,

I know exactly where you are coming from. I ran a very high end store for many years and did appraisals for my clients.
Look at it this way....when you buy a house do you have the person you are buying the house from do the appraisal? Lord no! This whole issue is directed more at the inflated appraisals used as marketing tools. I am not saying retailers with the right qualifications are not competent to do appraisals. Cindy
 

strmrdr

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Feydakin,
The problem is when someone asks for appraisal advice how am I to know that one of the very few stores that do honest appraisals is in their area.
It is simple safer to recomend an indpendant appraiser.
Out of all the jewlery stores in my area there is one that has a reputation for honest appraisals and they have the staff to back the reputation.
The rest are more typical in that they give feel good and often overgraded appraisals.

So it is really a catch 22 a jewlery store can do good appraisals but most dont and over the net how can I tell?
 

EdSkinner

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 29, 2004
Messages
304
Suppose a person comes to your independent appraisal service. Tells you nothing about where the stone was purchased. What number are you going to put on the appraised value? What it can be purchased for with an internet vender who is working at 5 to 10% above cost? How about a B&M store in an area with alot of competition, which will usually offer some form of discount. Better yet, a mall store which sells at what I consider the manufactures suggested retail price. How about Baily Banks & Biddle which will sell 15% above the MSP and no longer trademarks their goods. Every stone has a different price in a different market. So you put the price of what it could be purchased for on the internet on your appraisal for a stone that was purchased at the mall. What service are you doing your customer, and are you now an advocate for the internet instead of traditional retail? Then you discover that the customer bought it at a mall store, and you look at your figures and it was a legitimate sale for that market. On top of that the item was appraised by the stores GG for the amount of the purchase. You have now accomplished making the customer feel like a dope even though he paid the right price for the market he was in. And you have made yourself an advcate for a market that not everybody has the access to or the moxie to use. Blue Nile has every right to inflate the appraisal to what it could be purched at a mall store to show what type of discount they offer by using the internet. But the mall store price should be used for insurance, a market that is avilable to everyone and the stone can be easily replaced.
 

denverappraiser

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Steve,


I understand the problem and, as usual, I agree with most of what you say. Appraisals have been terribly abused for a very long time and it is the source of a great deal of trouble. Claims of independence are debatable and difficult to measure along with claims of competence. Some of the worst abusers have some of the best qualifications and some of the most capable have very little paper to show for it. Shopping is difficult.


When people on this forum are discussing appraisals, they usually have in mind a pre-purchase assessment of new merchandise. They want the appraisal to be part of their shopping and decision making experience. Much of this involves assessing the accuracy, relevance and completeness of the statements made by the seller. This is a valuable service that they are willing to pay a reasonable fee for. This kind of work is a very small segment of the appraisal business but it is a subject of great interest on this particular forum and it gets quite a bit of attention here. A statement by the seller, even if correct, does NOT serve this purpose.


For a majority of appraisal assignments, working in, or owning a jewelry store is a distinct advantage for an appraiser. It gives them direct market information that is otherwise fairly difficult to come by. I also agree that claims of independence are difficult to assess. Different people mean different things by that word and relationships can sometimes be difficult to identify. For example: my daughter owns a jewelry store from which I retired and am still on the board of directors. Does this prevent me from making the claim of independence? I don’t think so, but others disagree. Another example: Dave Atlas is in the business of buying items from the public and selling them at wholesale. Some would suggest that this makes him less than independent but I see no problem in it. I can’t imagine he would ever knowingly allow an offer to buy to become confused with an appraisal, even though he offers both services. I don’t knowingly do new-sale type appraisals on items that were sold by my daughter’s store, even though I had nothing to do with the transaction although customers don’t always tell me where they made their purchase so can may happen coincidentally.

I, for one, have very little problem with appraisers working with jewelry stores, antique stores and the like. It’s a convenience for the consumers and good marketing for the appraiser but I continue to maintain that there are some types of assignments that they should not accept because of this relationship. Items currently being sold by that store are at the head of this rather short list. On this we have to agree to disagree.
Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

newenglandgemlab

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
316
Hi Hammer,

The proper way to price an item is to discuss it with the client and give them all the relevent facts and make sure they relay that to their insurance company so they are covered to their satisfaction and can be made whole again. The client can decide on what market I will price it at. They are the ones paying the premiums and we owe it to them to help make an educated decision. Cindy
 

newenglandgemlab

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
316
Steve,

The way to handle that scenario is to state what you sold it for and then price it for what you feel you could reasonably replace it for and state why the higher value. The client then needs to discuss this with their agent. Pricing will need to be reviewed from time to time as more market data becomes available. Just my two little cents! Cindy
 

Superidealist

Brilliant_Rock
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Sep 10, 2003
Messages
655
Not just Blue Nile but several Pricescope vendors supply an appraisal with the purchase.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
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The current trend is to automatically assume that jewelers are incapable of providing these services.. Simply because they also happen to sell jewelry.. Look at the thread asking about all the ''good'' e-vendors here.. It goes a long way toward illustrating what I am trying to say..
I believe most thinking consumers understand that there exists no absolutes. Honestly, sometimes the absolutes that exist on this board grate on my nerves. Like the poor guy with the pear diamond from ebay automatically needs to go back without any discussion at all. And someone selling items = they aren''t competent nor ethical to provide a good/true appraisal.

Just my consumer 2cents
 

denverappraiser

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Date: 12/31/2004 10:45:12 AM
Author: newenglandgemlab
Steve,

The way to handle that scenario is to state what you sold it for and then price it for what you feel you could reasonably replace it for and state why the higher value. The client then needs to discuss this with their agent. Pricing will need to be reviewed from time to time as more market data becomes available. Just my two little cents! Cindy
Steve,

The JVC position on this is that you should supply a report titled 'jewelry documentation' where you describe what you sold, when you sold it, and how much you sold it for. In this sort of case, I would encourage the client to get an appraisal from an univolved 3rd party in order to properly document that you have delivered a bargain.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

EdSkinner

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 29, 2004
Messages
304
Hello Cindy. I agree, that is one of the reasons to get an item appraised. The vast majority of people that come to me for appraisals are very suspicous of the jewelry industry from the start. They give no information on the level it was purchased or and certification that has already been done. Plus half the time it is set. They are not really concerned about what the insurance value should be, but what the purchase price should have been. So you have to give them an appraisal that will cover the majority of the market, and then talk to them and adjust your figures to fit the clients needs. If all appraisals were for the price that the item that was sold for, what happens if the internet tanks. All those underappraised stones will not be able to be replaced in the market they were purchased.
 

EdSkinner

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 12/31/2004 10:29:30 AM
Author: Feydakin
I''m enjoying the discussion - hope you don''t mind if a drag in a semi-hypothetical scenario for you..

Suppose we manage to lay our hands a fabulous natural pink princess cut diamond.. Suppose that this diamond has been to the labs, verified, and appraised by several different people.. Now suppose that the diamond has been placed at a retail price of $200,000 by other independant appraisers.. We managaed to buy it for a more than fantastic price and can sell it for considerably less, say, $175,000 would take the diamond home..

We provide an appraisal with the purchase of the stone for $200,000.. Did we just provide our cusomter with a feel good appraisal of $25,000?? Or, do we appriase the stone for what it sold at and leave the customer under insured?? Or, did we do the right thing and provide a fair appraisal of a stone that we sold??
I''d give the appraisal for $200,000. It is fair and independant, and you are just giving your customer a good deal. I don''t think that it is padded. If you gave your own appraisal for an amount above the 200,00 then I might consider it padded expecially if you have no comperables to back up the price.
 

denverappraiser

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Date: 12/31/2004 11:29:53 AM
Author: Feydakin

Date: 12/31/2004 11:17
6.gif
1 AM
Author: denverappraiser

The JVC position on this is that you should supply a report titled ''jewelry documentation'' where you describe what you sold, when you sold it, and how much you sold it for.  In this sort of case, I would encourage the client to get an appraisal from an univolved 3rd party in order to properly document that you have delivered a bargain.
The Jewelry Documentation is on the reciept.. The Appraisal states fair market value.. You position is that we are incapable of providing this service for the simple reason we were involved in the transaction..

My issue all along has been that you and several others continualy beat the drum of how we are incapable of providing certain services for no valid reason other than we may somehow be dishonest or unethical.. And this does affect how new consumers will view jewelers as they mature and grow into educated consumers..
Steve,

I''m confused. You''ve made this sort of statement before. Can you please point out a post wherein I''ve accused anyone of being incapable of anything? I beat no such drum. In fact, I routinely oppose such statements when they are made by others.

Just to be clear, I think there are certain circumstances when any appraiser should not accept an assignment. I think there are certain assignments where customers are wise to choose an appraiser who is not a participant or a potential participant in the transaction at hand, even if they are otherwise qualified. We apparently disagree on these points.

Fair market value is a legally defined term and it''s not what we''re discussing here.


Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

strmrdr

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Date: 12/31/2004 9:28:49 AM
Author: crankydave
I''ve been following this conversation (okay, lurking) and here''s my 2 cents...


Strmrdr,


''The problem is when someone asks for appraisal advice how am I to know that one of the very few stores that do honest appraisals is in their area.''


''So it is really a catch 22 a jewlery store can do good appraisals but most dont and over the net how can I tell?''


This is a really broad brush you''re painting with. If you have the indepenent survey or have conducted one from which you make these statements, please share it with rest of us. Steve can speak for himself but this is precisely the kind of generalizations I dislike. I, like Steve, have worked with many ''independent'' appraisers, as well as jewelers, over the years. I will reccomend the ones I have personal knowledge of being fair and good. I will not bash the others. If I have personal knowledge of a particular individual that is unfair or not good I will disuade people from using them in particular. I will not generalize good or bad for the group as a whole. Doing so creates and perpetuates distrust and fear needlessly and unfairly.


I do not consider this a matter of semantics or nit picking. This site touts itself as being a consumer advocate. It is recognized by many as an authority. Many posters here are recognized as experts. I believe it is the resposibility of people recognized as the experts to provide honest and fair information. Broad brushes are not fair and honest. Getting ''mauled'' is not fair and honest across the board. Flipping hot dogs at an Orange Julius the day before is not fair and honest across the board.


Promote what you have to offer without bashing the others. Sell why you''re better and not why the others aren''t. This is fair and honest. This is what the consumers seeking information here deserve.


What can and will happen if someone decides to travel outside of this circle are two decidedly different things.


Dave
Dave,
Im going by what Iv seen localy and in this thread I have pointed out one place that gives honest and solid appraisals in my area.
From listening and talking to other consumers is not that different from anywhere else.

If you notice I was one of the first defending stores that also offer appraisals because I know there are a few good ones out there.

I can see and both sides on the issue.
For myself I know I can do my homework and decide for myself but when it comes to recomendations for others its another issue.
Its my feeling that on average an independant appraiser is the safer bet if one is available all things considered.
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 12/31/2004 12:34:18 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 12/31/2004 11:29:53 AM
Author: Feydakin


Date: 12/31/2004 11:17
6.gif
1 AM
Author: denverappraiser

The JVC position on this is that you should supply a report titled ''jewelry documentation'' where you describe what you sold, when you sold it, and how much you sold it for. In this sort of case, I would encourage the client to get an appraisal from an univolved 3rd party in order to properly document that you have delivered a bargain.
The Jewelry Documentation is on the reciept.. The Appraisal states fair market value.. You position is that we are incapable of providing this service for the simple reason we were involved in the transaction..

My issue all along has been that you and several others continualy beat the drum of how we are incapable of providing certain services for no valid reason other than we may somehow be dishonest or unethical.. And this does affect how new consumers will view jewelers as they mature and grow into educated consumers..
Steve,

I''m confused. You''ve made this sort of statement before. Can you please point out a post wherein I''ve accused anyone of being incapable of anything? I beat no such drum. In fact, I routinely oppose such statements when they are made by others.

Just to be clear, I think there are certain circumstances when any appraiser should not accept an assignment. I think there are certain assignments where customers are wise to choose an appraiser who is not a participant or a potential participant in the transaction at hand, even if they are otherwise qualified. We apparently disagree on these points.

Fair market value is a legally defined term and it''s not what we''re discussing here.


Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

Steve your logic in this is all wrong.

You must research the proper markets in order to estimate a value. FMV MUST have definition which is given in the local laws, which must be for the assignment you have to do.

You must describe the market used and many times ( especially for an insurance replacement assignment) you need to report more than one value and let the insurance company and the client arrive at the value they want.

Your remark about the Internet tanking is not factual. Sales on the internet represents a vibrant and existing market. Additionally your example using a stone that isn''t commonly sold doesn''t properly address the actual issues that professional appraisers must ethically address.

As appraisers, we are responsible to report the facts as they are. The client, and related third parties ( such as the insurance company, courts,or triers of fact) have the burden of making the decision. There are a lot of cases where the opinion is that the appraiser " went beyond his powers" in doing the assignment.

I had an appraisal for bankruptcy court which showed 5 different values, each based on individuals market. When we got to trial, the judge said he never saw a report like that... and which value should he use.... My answer was that I reported what factually happens in each market level as it was accurate in describing that items have more than one value. Further it wasn''t my place to assert a single value, as it isn''t my deicision. I explained that the decision was up to him, a jury, or the parties to decide which value was the most appropriate, and that HE was the person with the wisdom to make that decision based on the facts stated in the report. The judge liked what I said, and remarked that my report was done in a way, that informed him of all the portential scenarios, and told me that now that he understood what I did, I was truly a professional help for the court.

Neil is certainly more than correct in the FMV is a legally defined concept that needs to be addressed pursuant to the type of assignment and any local laws. There is no FMV for divorce cases in FL, ( except one about how FMV should be determined in the sale of a law practice if you want to read it its cite is Thompson v. Thompson FL appeals court) yet even attorney keep asking me to do FMV for a divorce case here. FMV tells the appraiser HOW he is to estimate the value of an item or property. The more proper term for this is generic term.. MARKET VALUE. FMV limits how the appraiser reports the value, while market value leaves the choice of what facts are reported to the appraiser. All of this of course must be relevant to the function and purpose of the assignment.

Additionally, cnsumers that feel an appraisal shouldn''t be updated periodically for market change is stupid.. changes happen all the time that might affect the value, and having a stale appraisal protecting their property if not updated, is their own fault. I see loss documents that are relied on by insurance companies for 7 or more years. Then if the replacement costs increase the consumer ends up getting the wrong end of the stick so to speak.

In any event the parties ( both the appraiser''s direct client, as well as any other parties that need to rely on the report) must have complete information. To issue a report that doesn''t provide this is simply negligent. They say ignorance is bliss but not if a matter ends up in court.

I write this to inform and educate both dealers and consumers of the facts..not to frighten or be self serving.

Happy holiday all.
Comment?

Rockdoc
 

fire&ice

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You must describe the market used and many times ( especially for an insurance replacement assignment) you need to report more than one value and let the insurance company and the client arrive at the value they want.

I had an appraisal for bankruptcy court which showed 5 different values, each based on individuals market. When we got to trial, the judge said he never saw a report like that... and which value should he use.... My answer was that I reported what factually happens in each market level as it was accurate in describing that items have more than one value. Further it wasn''t my place to assert a single value, as it isn''t my deicision. I explained that the decision was up to him, a jury, or the parties to decide which value was the most appropriate, and that HE was the person with the wisdom to make that decision based on the facts stated in the report. The judge liked what I said, and remarked that my report was done in a way, that informed him of all the portential scenarios, and told me that now that he understood what I did, I was truly a professional help for the court.


Happy holiday all.
Comment?

Rockdoc
This is interesting and makes sense to me. BUT - wouldn''t diamonds be more static in price? In my biz, it''s not unusual for a sloppy "appraiser" (certified) to value a painting at 10k. The painting sell for 150k. Then, inserted in a proper market with proper advertising, the same painting sell in the 1 million mark. I can''t imagine that diamonds would have that wide range of pricing. Wrong? A diamond has intrinsic value all in itself. One can break down the components of a ring & come close to a value in it''s own right.

Also, if I understand what Steve is saying, one can both sell & appraise. The two are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps I am just looking at it from my perpective, but wouldn''t someone who sells and handle said objects have more of a hands on approach to value? Maybe in my perfect world, but I think one can separate one''s business dealings and one''s appraisal dealings. I believe people can wear more than just one hat. And, as a consumer, I recognize this as mostly true. But, I suppose the argument could be made that an "independent appraiser" looks to more of a global market than the reality that the jeweler may have. I know on more than one occassion - I have relayed or been told "In my market, I would price it as x".

That said, I have seen some games played by some that have more than one agenda.
 

denverappraiser

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9,150
F&I,

With paintings, would you consider it useful for a seller to supply a document accompanying a sale that describes it''s value as something other than the sales price using the same market and on the same date as the sale? Under what circumstances would this report be useful? Would you put more credibility on this type of report if it was supplied by someone other than the seller where all of their other qualifications are equal?

Neil
 
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