Blackened metal on old pieces?

[arjunajane]

Hello all,

I''ve been doing a bit of window-shopping lately, both in person and on-line and I am wondering if someone can tell me about the black metal you sometimes see in old pieces?
In the ones I have seen, it has often been holding diamonds or other precious gems - am I correct in that this is blackened silver, or another metal?

I am talking about early 1900''s pieces, I believe..

Would love any and all input!

cheers
aj.

 

[oddoneout]

I''m no expert but I think they used to set diamonds in silver so the blackened metal could be silver.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 4/14/2010 8:02:20 AM
Author: oddoneout
I''m no expert but I think they used to set diamonds in silver so the blackened metal could be silver.

That''s what I had thought, thanks for your reply.


Jewelerman, or any other enthusiasts able to weigh in?

I guess my next question would be, does one try to clean this tarnish if it is in fact silver?
Or does it help the "vintage value" to leave it aged..?

 

[RockHugger]

if its something you are going to wear, I would clean it.

I asked a jewler that question when I started collecting old silver pieces. I was told its OK to clean it because silver will ALWAYS re-tarnish .

With that said, I kind of like the black look with diamonds...but everyone has their own tastes.

 

[innerkitten]

I think sometimes they even plated gold with silver ( why not just use solid silver :-/ ? ). I just saw the Cartier exhibit here in San Francisco and he had done a few diamond pieces with diamonds and silver. It gives an interesting look.

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 4/14/2010 4:18:00 AM
Author:arjunajane
Hello all,

I''ve been doing a bit of window-shopping lately, both in person and on-line and I am wondering if someone can tell me about the black metal you sometimes see in old pieces?
In the ones I have seen, it has often been holding diamonds or other precious gems - am I correct in that this is blackened silver, or another metal?

I am talking about early 1900''s pieces, I believe..

Would love any and all input!

cheers
aj.

before the wide use of white gold and platinum silver was most used white metal.Even with diamonds and precious colored stones jewelers used silver as the white metal in the time period before the turn of the 20th century.The darkened silver can in many cases be an asset to the piece and should not be polished.As with copper and old wood...the patination on silver can bring up value on a piece of silver and using a chemical cleaner to strip away a beautiful mellow patina is not reccommended.It gives siver a harsh bright look that collectors hate.It takes years to get a even dark patina that is very popular with collectors(antique silver and american indian are two area)The deep black color that is even with undertones of rose is very attractive in my opinion.Of course some silver...including alot of antique service pieces(dishes,cups,candlesticks ect.)look better polished(but not to a cheap looking high polish)and wont devalue the item.its best to talk to an auction house or a person who has backround in individual antiques items before stripping away the patina and what cleaning tools to use.

 

[arjunajane]

Thankyou jewelerman for the info, I was hoping you would see this.

No, I didn''t think taking off the patina was advisable - I guess I need to decide if I really like the look of it or no, as I doubt I would be buying for resale purposes (at least at this time)

 

[LGK]

Yup, probably silver. I just got a pair of 3 1/2 cttw diamond earrings that are entirely sterling except for the gold posts- diamonds and other precious stones were often set in silver in Victorian pieces. You also see, sometimes, bright yellow 18K gold topped with sterling from that time period too, so you only see the gold when viewing the piece upside down.

I prefer the patina intact too. (Luckily the patina on my earrings seems pretty deep so they're staying pretty dark even with some wear... silver polishes sometimes just from being worn.)

Silver does have a different feel to it from gold or platinum. It's heavier and... I dunno, less delicate looking. The earrings I got have a much different feel than they would in another metal, despite the very delicate filigree... much more solid. (And they're pretty heavy.)

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 4/21/2010 11:14:11 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
Yup, probably silver. I just got a pair of 3 1/2 cttw diamond earrings that are entirely sterling except for the gold posts- diamonds and other precious stones were often set in silver in Victorian pieces. You also see, sometimes, bright yellow 18K gold topped with sterling from that time period too, so you only see the gold when viewing the piece upside down.


I prefer the patina intact too. (Luckily the patina on my earrings seems pretty deep so they're staying pretty dark even with some wear... silver polishes sometimes just from being worn.)


Silver does have a different feel to it from gold or platinum. It's heavier and... I dunno, less delicate looking. The earrings I got have a much different feel than they would in another metal, despite the very delicate filigree... much more solid. (And they're pretty heavy.)

Thanks LGK for weighing in with your experience

Your new earrings sound intriguing, have you taken pics yet?

Unfortunately, I didn't bid high enough for the piece I had my eye on

But at least now I have learned something.
I know what you are saying about the gold being topped with sterling - that must be the case with this piece, as it is YG but with black sections in various places.

JFF, here is the ring in question:

 

[zhuzhu]

AJ, That is a beautiful ring! I can see how the silver patina really pops the diamonds. Sorry you did not get it this time but I am sure more like this will come around in the future.

 

[Black Jade]

silver can get pretty black again quite soon, in my experience.

I was in Taiwan and bought two antique silver hairpins (filigree, very beautiful). I of course polished them because I bought them to WEAR. They were at least 100 years old at that time, but in very wearable condition. One had lost its dangles at some point, but the rest of the piece was intact. Anyway, point of the story is that I was yelled at for having ''destroyed patina''--not by just one person, but by several different people. Seemed silly to me at the time, but even sillier now, 25 years later, when both hairpins are very black again and look just as bad as they did when I bought them. I no longer wear long hair to put hairpins into so have not bothered to polish them again (yet).

I think this is probably a moot point with diamonds set into silver because you can''t get into the setting under the diamond to polish the silver without actually removing the diamond from the setting, which seems like a lot of trouble and possibly even destructive. When I''ve seen these pieces, only right around the diamond is silver, the rest of the piece is gold, but the diamond was set in silver to look more white--at the time. Of course its a very different look now. It''s interesting to me that some people like it. However in the case of the diamond, the piece has so much more value to lose monetarily that most people would probably rather leave them alone. The silver hairpins weren''t very expensive and neither were they at all rare at the time, though I understand that antique Chinese silver is not as plentiful in antique shops as it used to be.

Now I suppose I will be yelled at again...and called a philistine and so forth and so on...

I do also polish my sterling flatware, when I am going to use it, I always make it nice and white. As I said, it does tarnish again remarkably quickly. It''s not like rhodium coating, which is much more permanent (and seriously ugly, makes the silver look like chrome to me).

 

[jewelerman]

Flat ware and silver used for dining shoulc always be polished and cleaned well...this is an exceptiontion to the rule...the constant hand(not chemical dipping)polishing will create a beautiful patina that is very nice that glows.Always polish in one direction...up and down and never in a circular motion!