Bengal/Savannah Owners... see this article?

[MsP]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/05/06/130506fa_fact_levy

and... http://jezebel.com/meet-the-delusional-breeders-behind-the-worlds-wild-cr-484459922

I have no experience with the breeds. What are your thoughts?

 

[sonnyjane]

At the risk of totally upsetting anyone that may have this breed, I'll say as a blanket statement that I'm against exotic hybrids in the home.

I work at a zoo and one of our key goals is to strongly discourage people from keeping exotic pets or exotic hybrids. This includes bengal/savannah cats and dog/wolf hybrids. The bottom line is that they just aren't the same as your typical cat or dog that you find at a shelter. They need to be raised differently, they need to be cared for differently, and they need to be regarding quite differently when it comes to safety. I am personally strongly opposed to the practice.

 

[Mayk]

We have a Bengal. He is large between 25-27 lbs. and solid, no fat on him. He is very talkative. He talks all the time and almost never shuts up which can be a pain. I'm sure our neighbors hate us when he is on the porch talking. You can open the door and he just looks at you and talks more. He doesn't want to come in, he just has a lot to say. When he was a kitten he was agressive but mostly with DD. It was like he thought she was his playmate. He would stalk her. All the sudden we would hear a scream from somewhere in the house where he had jumped out and jumped on her. He would bite her, mostly on her lower legs and run . He never broke the skin but he would scare her. He's calmed down in his ripe old age of 5, in fact she was complaining that he never plays with her anymore.

He's a mess... but we love him. Not sure I would recommend the breed because if they are all this noisy, it can be a pain. He was my first experience with the breed I had strays and a Persian.

 

[ForteKitty]

Sugden and Oberzire make me sick. They are disgusting people. Please tell me most breeders aren't like that.

 

[missy]

Sugden and Oberzire make me sick. They are disgusting people. Please tell me most breeders aren't like that.

ugh, they make me sick too.

 

[Mayk]

Sugden and Oberzire make me sick. They are disgusting people. Please tell me most breeders aren't like that.

I think cat breeders are different... I worked in the industry for five years attending dog and cat shows. Breeders are interesting people... But I agree these cat breeders are dreadful... My experience with the breeder we bought our Bengal from was equally interesting. He lived on a farm and let his cats roam, or so he said. I never saw the farm. Because he lived three hours away the cat was delivered to us via a vet in our area that checked him out. Our cat developed a heart murmur that at some point could cause issues, I believe this is a result of the breeding. It's not the first Bengal I've heard of with a heart condition... It's the 3rd. I don't want to class all breeders like these, of being dreadful or odd, I'm just saying my experience has been some people love their animals and some sadly are in it for the business of breeding exotics. and selling very expensive kittens... And puppies.

 

[vintagelover229]

We also have a bengal-we got her from a breeder but she was a retired queen. She had only had 4 litters and it was a very controlled environment. We love her to death and she's actually not as much bengal like as she is domestic.

She does talk sometimes-but not often. She is pretty much a loaner but does want attention on her terms. She's AMAZING with the baby after a bit of adjustment period (which is normal with any animal) and other than her spots you'd never know she was a bengal. She doesn't need a ton of attention and she's only about 10 lbs.

I love her to death and she's a wonderful cat. But I do know that there are other ones out there who aren't as easy to live with. Thankfully we got one that is

ETA: She is fixed now and no longer breeds.

 

[kenny]

We have a Bengal. He is large between 25-27 lbs. and solid, no fat on him. He is very talkative.

A talking cat?
Surely you don't mean this like a talking parrot which can sound exactly like human speech.
Do you?

What does their talking sound like?
Loud meowing?
Howling?

 

[kenny]

At the risk of totally upsetting anyone that may have this breed, I'll say as a blanket statement that I'm against exotic hybrids in the home.

I work at a zoo and one of our key goals is to strongly discourage people from keeping exotic pets or exotic hybrids. This includes bengal/savannah cats and dog/wolf hybrids. The bottom line is that they just aren't the same as your typical cat or dog that you find at a shelter. They need to be raised differently, they need to be cared for differently, and they need to be regarding quite differently when it comes to safety. I am personally strongly opposed to the practice.

This Wikipedia article says generations 1 thourough 3 are too wild for the home but by the fourth generation they are okay for the home.
Do you agree?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_(cat)
QUOTE:
After three generations from the original crossing, the breed usually acquires a gentle domestic cat temperament;[1] however, for the typical pet owner, a Bengal cat kept as a pet should be at least four generations (F4) removed from the leopard cat. The so-called "foundation cats" from the first three filial generations of breeding (F1–F3) are usually reserved for breeding purposes or the specialty pet home environment.[10] ENDQUOTE

Mayk and Vintagelover, are your Bengal cats 4 generations removed from wild?

 

[vintagelover229]

Kenny-yes mine is at least 4 away-although the number I am not sure. They can't even sell them legally if they aren't as far as I'm aware.

Here is what we mean by "talking" which my cat does some times and gets upset if we go away for the day and will hide upstairs or downstairs. Then after we give her attentions she'll sometimes give us attitude talking at night when we are in bed. She does like to talk but not to the point it's annoying.


Speaking of our cat-she's freaking out cuz of these videos lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p9OFG8sycU

Mine hasn't done this though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSq5hEOcS8A

Although she did this one night when we were in bed and we both started laughing because we were like wtf is that? Is that our cat?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuXzPvo3mZ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Q14-Xy-3M

I've gotten this look before but she doesn't get away with it. We do not accept attitude from her at all. She also hates her belly rubbed but has gotten A LOT better over the years since I've been working with her. She also hated being held at first but now will allow us to hold her (me mostly) since she knows we'll put her down nice. That also took some work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSkYDwlcJfk

 

[bunnycat]

Kenny-yes mine is at least 4 away-although the number I am not sure. They can't even sell them legally if they aren't as far as I'm aware.

Here is what we mean by "talking" which my cat does some times and gets upset if we go away for the day and will hide upstairs or downstairs. Then after we give her attentions she'll sometimes give us attitude talking at night when we are in bed. She does like to talk but not to the point it's annoying.


Speaking of our cat-she's freaking out cuz of these videos lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p9OFG8sycU

Mine hasn't done this though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSq5hEOcS8A

Although she did this one night when we were in bed and we both started laughing because we were like wtf is that? Is that our cat?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuXzPvo3mZ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Q14-Xy-3M

I've gotten this look before but she doesn't get away with it. We do not accept attitude from her at all. She also hates her belly rubbed but has gotten A LOT better over the years since I've been working with her. She also hated being held at first but now will allow us to hold her (me mostly) since she knows we'll put her down nice. That also took some work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSkYDwlcJfk

Oh my goodness. I haven't read the article as yet (though am generally opposed to animal breeding with too many still dying in shelters) but just had to say I spent the last 5 minutes aplogizing to my cats for playing one of the videos!

 

[sonnyjane]

At the risk of totally upsetting anyone that may have this breed, I'll say as a blanket statement that I'm against exotic hybrids in the home.

I work at a zoo and one of our key goals is to strongly discourage people from keeping exotic pets or exotic hybrids. This includes bengal/savannah cats and dog/wolf hybrids. The bottom line is that they just aren't the same as your typical cat or dog that you find at a shelter. They need to be raised differently, they need to be cared for differently, and they need to be regarding quite differently when it comes to safety. I am personally strongly opposed to the practice.

This Wikipedia article says generations 1 thourough 3 are too wild for the home but by the fourth generation they are okay for the home.
Do you agree?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_(cat)
QUOTE:
After three generations from the original crossing, the breed usually acquires a gentle domestic cat temperament;[1] however, for the typical pet owner, a Bengal cat kept as a pet should be at least four generations (F4) removed from the leopard cat. The so-called "foundation cats" from the first three filial generations of breeding (F1–F3) are usually reserved for breeding purposes or the specialty pet home environment.[10] ENDQUOTE

Mayk and Vintagelover, are your Bengal cats 4 generations removed from wild?

I don't doubt that the more removed from the wild strain, the more domesticated they seem, or even are. I'm just saying that from a species conservation standpoint, I discourage hybridizations in general, and moreso for pet purposes.

 

[kenny]

Thanks VL.
Boy, they sure are beautiful cats.

 

[Mayk]

We have a Bengal. He is large between 25-27 lbs. and solid, no fat on him. He is very talkative.

A talking cat?
Surely you don't mean this like a talking parrot which can sound exactly like human speech.
Do you?

What does their talking sound like?
Loud meowing?
Howling?

Ill try and record and upload this weekend... My DD has recorded it... It's not meowing and if you make the noise back to him he will keep going. He will answer you...we actually call him by mimicking HS noise and he will respond. We are an odd house talking to our cats in cat noises... Please don't send the white coats...

 

[Clairitek]

Sugden and Oberzire make me sick. They are disgusting people. Please tell me most breeders aren't like that.

I'm not sure that disgusting even begins to cover it.



The only bengals I've ever encountered are B.E.G.'s kitties. They are pretty destructive (chewing things, shredding shower curtains, typical cat stuff) but friendly and have never showed aggression towards me. One of them likes to be held and the other doesn't. They're really playful and clearly really attached to B.E.G. because they wreak havok when she isn't home for long periods of time. I never got the impression from them that they would unsafe around small children.

 

[kenny]

Sugden and Oberzire make me sick. They are disgusting people. Please tell me most breeders aren't like that.

I'm not sure that disgusting even begins to cover it.



The only bengals I've ever encountered are B.E.G.'s kitties. They are pretty destructive (chewing things, shredding shower curtains, typical cat stuff) but friendly and have never showed aggression towards me. One of them likes to be held and the other doesn't. They're really playful and clearly really attached to B.E.G. because they wreak havok when she isn't home for long periods of time. I never got the impression from them that they would unsafe around small children.

What/who is B.E.G.?

 

[LAJennifer]

I don't have a Bengal, but I have met a few and they were all nice cats. My cat, Seth, is an Egyptian Mau and he runs his mouth all day long. The Bengal was created by crossing an Egyptian Mau with an Asian Leopard Cat, so maybe that is where they get their "talkative" gene.

However, Seth does not meow. He generally squawks like a pterodactyl, but he will hold a conversation with you. He does try to mimic human speak by moving his mouth and speaking polysyllabic words. I swear, about 6 years ago, he would try to say "I love you" after you would say it to him. When I first got Seth, he was almost a year old and he would only bark like a dog. At the breeder's house, where he lived until I adopted him, his best friend was a Rottweiler.

Thirteen years later, he no longer barks but he does like to sing. If someone sings in his presence he will often sing along (and sometimes along with the television). Our current house has a very large, unfinished basement with pretty good acoustics. Seth will go down there, by himself, and sing at the top of his lungs. We call it Seth's Summer Concert Series.

My other two cats never open their mouths. I guess Seth talks enough for all three.

 

[chrono]

Are these really noises particular to Bengals only? My Birman made all these "talking" sounds, chirps and strange un-cat-like noises as well. The only difference is that her temperament is more dog-like (very affectionate, a busybody, opens doors and closets, follows me everywhere to the point I often trip over her, walks on a leash, etc).

 

[Matata]

True to form, it's the few backyard breeders and general looney toons that get the publicity. Yet the 100s of ethical breeders remain in the shadows.

The asian jungle cat from which Bengals are descended are typically not as human friendly as the servals used in the foundation of the savannah breed. This may be why the early Bengals developed a reputation as wild.

I have 3 savannah cats -- two F2s (2nd generation, 35% and 25% serval respectively) and an F6 (1/16th % serval). Savannahs are considered domestic cats. They do not need to be cared for any differently than a domestic shorthair. They are no more dangerous than a domestic shorthair.

What is challenging about the savannah is their energy level and intelligence. They need another companion animal for company even if you are home all day. If left alone all day, they get into as much trouble as they can -- opening cupboards & closets and tossing items all over the house, clawing furniture, dragging throw rugs and pillows around, unpotting plants, turning on faucets.

There are savannahs that love to cuddle and sit in your lap and those who will sit beside you and sleep with you but don't want to be held. Just like any other cat. It depends on two things -- the parents personalities and socialization. There are breeders who do a great job of socializing their kittens (raising them in their homes and getting them accustomed to kids, other animals, and the noises that accompany living with humans) and there are breeders who suck at it.

These cats are very dog-like and take well to socialization training and to home training. They've been trained to walk on leashes, use the toilet instead of a litter box, do tricks. There are SVs who have received certification as companion animals and visit schools, hospitals and nursing homes.

There is a lot of hype by hysterical animal rights groups making ridiculous claims about these cats but anyone who lives with them can tell you it's a bunch of crap.

 

[ForteKitty]

My black and white tuxedo cat makes all sorts of noises. We think he's part gremlin.

He has his "my food bowl has an empty spot, fill it up right now even though there is food in the rest of the bowl!" chirp, the "I'm bored and I want to roll around and make noises" chatter, the "mom! what are you doing? TALK TO ME OR I WONT SHUT UP" meow-rowwwws, the "I love Glee so I'm going to sing along to ever single song" howling, and a strange chatter reserved for me when he wants to play chase.

We also have two siamese mixes, and they talk a lot, too. Not nearly as much as Monster (the tuxedo), but they do talk more than most cats.

 

[missy]

We have 4 short hair rescues and they are all incredibly vocal. I read somewhere that cats have 4 different meows that mean 4 different things. Help, pay attention to me, feed me and I want to go out. However our dear kitties seem to be saying a lot more and they make the noises to prove it lol.

 

[JaneSmith]

I've quite enjoyed reading about everyone's cats, thank you. I skipped the parts about the dodgy breeders because I really don't need to cry tonight.

This is the only cat I can ever have. Unfortunately I'd have to win the lottery because its $27,000.

http://www.allerca.com/html/hypoallergenic.html

 

[Matata]

I've quite enjoyed reading about everyone's cats, thank you. I skipped the parts about the dodgy breeders because I really don't need to cry tonight.

This is the only cat I can ever have. Unfortunately I'd have to win the lottery because its $27,000.

http://www.allerca.com/html/hypoallergenic.html

Jane, the Ashera Cat is nothing other than a Savannah cat. The Ashera is a scam. You can get an F1 savannah cat for $6000-8000; $10,000 if it's a very typey cat (looking very close to a serval). F2 savannah cat males run anywhere from $2500-$6000. Female F1s and F2s can be very expensive as they are used in breeding. F1-F4 males are sterile although there have been a few F4 fertile males.

 

[aviastar]

I've quite enjoyed reading about everyone's cats, thank you. I skipped the parts about the dodgy breeders because I really don't need to cry tonight.

This is the only cat I can ever have. Unfortunately I'd have to win the lottery because its $27,000.

http://www.allerca.com/html/hypoallergenic.html

Jane, the Ashera Cat is nothing other than a Savannah cat. The Ashera is a scam. You can get an F1 savannah cat for $6000-8000; $10,000 if it's a very typey cat (looking very close to a serval). F2 savannah cat males run anywhere from $2500-$6000. Female F1s and F2s can be very expensive as they are used in breeding. F1-F4 males are sterile although there have been a few F4 fertile males.

Matata, I was glad to see you chime in here!

1) I agree with your post- there are good breeders and bad breeders for every animal, the author couldn't find one decent breeder of either breed to interview? These people are abhorrent, but would they be less so if they were breeding labs and not exotics? Of course not. Irresponsible breeders are a problem, but it has little or nothing to do with the actual breed.

2) Like Jane, I am terribly terribly allergic to cats- eyes swell shut, throat closes, the works. Several years ago I met a lovely couple walking their two Savannahs where I used to live. The were great- let me stop to meet the cats, chatted about the breed. They are striking animals! Both were very well behaved and after about an hour of sitting on the ground and playing with them, I had not an allergy symptom in sight.

So I have always wondered if they were truly more hypoallergenic than housecats because of the serval genes or if I was just having a good day, we were outside, etc. I've thought about starting a thread to ask you, so I'll just ask here- any reason to think they truly are better for allergy sufferers? Do any of your cats show any inclination for mousing ( )? They are outside my price range at the moment but there are a few catteries within driving distance that I could check out in the future- make sure they are decent human beings and all that. I'd also consider putting my name on an adoption list, but have yet to find a breed specific rescue group.

Thanks in advance!

 

[JaneSmith]

I've quite enjoyed reading about everyone's cats, thank you. I skipped the parts about the dodgy breeders because I really don't need to cry tonight.

This is the only cat I can ever have. Unfortunately I'd have to win the lottery because its $27,000.

http://www.allerca.com/html/hypoallergenic.html

Jane, the Ashera Cat is nothing other than a Savannah cat. The Ashera is a scam. You can get an F1 savannah cat for $6000-8000; $10,000 if it's a very typey cat (looking very close to a serval). F2 savannah cat males run anywhere from $2500-$6000. Female F1s and F2s can be very expensive as they are used in breeding. F1-F4 males are sterile although there have been a few F4 fertile males.

This company claims to have bred out the specific gene that causes the saliva protein that people are allergic to.
They have cheaper moggies that have had the allergen protein bred out of them, I just prefer how this one looks.