Bellataire

[tino]

I’m thinking on buying a diamond, I have this 2 options:

A .59 F/VVS1 Bellataire
A .48 F /VS1 Lazare
The Lazare is a lot cheaper than the Bellataire . I don’t know much about diamonds but the Bellataire seems to be the best option.
What do you think? Which one would you buy?
What about the GE restoring color process it is safe? It doesn’t affect the diamond quality?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'm afraid I have never heard of the restoring color process. What is that???

Can you tell us how much these stones are? You may be able to get fine hearts and arrows cut diamonds for less money without paying for the brand name.

 

[tino]

it is in theirs web page:

GE scientists have discovered a way to restore the color of rare high-purity diamonds. With its original intrinsic color revealed, each BELLATAIRE Diamond is an exceptionally beautiful gem, as nature intended

 

[JohnQuixote]

The Bellataire diamond began as GE/POL (General Electric/Pegasus Overseas Ltd)

GE developed High Pressure/High Temperature (HPHT) annealed diamonds. HPHT is a method for influencing the diamond's color.

In 1999 the GIA began accepting these diamonds for grading; they were involved in research with GE at the time. The Federal Trade Commission requires that HPHT must be disclosed, so GIA notes "HPHT Annealed" or "Artificially Irradiated" on grading reports when it is detected. The diamonds themselves are laser-inscribed with the words "HPHT Processed," "Irradiated," or a specific registered name so there is full disclosure. "GE POL" has been inscribed on Bellataire diamonds.

From GIA: "...by grading them in the lab, we were able to indicate that they were HPHT annealed on their reports (and on the diamonds themselves). Our “greater good” goal was to protect the trade and the public by protecting the integrity of all diamonds..."

Here is text of the Full GIA Article
More on GE-processed diamonds

Whether irradiated diamonds should be considered 'treated' is a controversial issue: Bellataire maintains that since the GIA does not issue grading reports on treated diamonds theirs don't fall into this category. They generally hold the minority opinion: Many view such color treatment as an unnatural enhancement, like clarity enhancements (laser drilling & fracture filling).

Whether you are a fan or not - as long as it's disclosed it's up to the buyer to decide if he/she is ok with it, and to enjoy wearing the diamond.

(GIA photo)

 

[tino]

Thanks JhonQuixote that’s a lot of information, the diamond I’m talking about seems to be pretty good. Do I making a good purchase? Is really a good rock? What about bellataire reputation it is good? Or should I go better for the lazare?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Tino, John can't advertise his own product here, but he works for a company named WhiteFlash that sells diamonds as good as the Lazarre (as far as I am concerned) and you might even save some money. I also highly recommend the diamonds at Good Old Gold.

Here are the sites. I encourage you to look up similar size stones and compare the prices. Both companies provide pictures and other valuable information to help you select the best stone for your money.

http://www.whiteflash.com/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Home/

I personally would prefer a natural diamond over one treated in any way.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2006 7:21:37 PM
Author: tino

Thanks JhonQuixote that’s a lot of information, the diamond I’m talking about seems to be pretty good. Do I making a good purchase? Is really a good rock?

You're welcome Tino. If you provide more information there are plenty of people here who will provide input and opinions. A ‘good purchase’ really depends on your wants & needs balanced with what’s available & in your budget. You may already have found it.

What about bellataire reputation it is good? Or should I go better for the lazare?

It depends on who you talk to. Lazare Diamonds have a strong reputation in the trade. Opinions vary about Bellataire diamonds; they are considered artificially enhanced…but so are some people.

Most important is your peace of mind and the wearer’s. Many companies will not sell irradiated or clarity-enhanced diamonds, but they may represent a good value depending on individual circumstances.

 

[tino]

Thanks diamondseeker it is good to know your opinion. Why you prefer the natural diamond? It is just your opinion because you like it more? or is because the diamond quality? Or the cut? The color? I’m trying to understand if the treated diamonds are bad or it is good as a natural and it only depends on what the people likes

 

[tino]

Thanks again JhonQuixote I’m kind of confuse here, .If the GIA accept this kind of diamonds they should be ok right? But being honest there have to be something wrong if there are people who doesn’t like it, or we are here talking about just what people prefer? I just want to make sure that the are nothing wrong with these diamonds

 

[widget]

I prefer natural diamonds just as I do natural untreated colored gemstones. I love them not only for their beauty, but because they are true wonders...created by Mother Nature.

The only thing I can think of that makes an irradiated diamond "better" is that it is probably more affordable than an untreated one of similar size, clarity, color, etc...

widget

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2006 7:51:53 PM
Author: tino
Thanks again JhonQuixote I’m kind of confuse here, .If the GIA accept this kind of diamonds they should be ok right? But being honest there have to be something wrong if there are people who doesn’t like it, or we are here talking about just what people prefer? I just want to make sure that the are nothing wrong with these diamonds

Whether they are ok is in the eye of the beholder. Some wearers have nothing against an enhanced diamond. Others do. It's preference, as you say.

For the record, GIA's reasoning for accepting color enhanced diamonds was for the "greater good" of the trade; so they would be identified and disclosed.

 

[tino]

Why is that widget? why cheaper?

Is because is not "100 Natural" ( I mean the process)

The only thing I can think of that makes an irradiated diamond "better" is that it is probably more affordable than an untreated one of similar size, clarity, color, etc...

 

[february2003bride]

In order of importance (for me):

1) A natural diamond (I''d personally never buy a clarity or trated diamond)
2) Cut
3) Color
4) Clarity (eyeclean)

 

[tino]

Thanks february2003bride, you say is your opinion but it helps

 

[widget]

Author: tino
Why is that widget? why cheaper?

I''m no expert, and I''ve never even considered enhanced diamonds so I don''t know what the price differences are...

I presume enhanced stones cost less because the original "raw material" costs less..

Obviously my preference for natural is more philosophical than logical. I like my bling either natural, or blatantly paste....and nothing in between. But that''s just me...

widget

 

[february2003bride]

I think that is almost everyone''s order of importance, atleast here on PriceScope. A friend got engaged earlier this year and she wanted size over anything, so her FI got her a 1.60ish round with a "good" cut grade. If he had gone "Ideal", "Excellent" or even "Very Good" her stone would be smaller. But, it''s just what is the most important to you.

If you want to list your budget, PS posters can easily help you find a gorgeous diamond in your budget!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Belataire is a very well marketed HPHT diamond that fetches a good value in the market because of the marketing. The head of the company (and LK) is also the Chair of GIA. They are well respected and powerful.

If the same diamond treated in the same artificial way was offered by a lessor company we might expect the stone to sell for plus or minus 1/2 the value of a natural diamond.

If you buy this diamond and try to trade it up or sell it you will discover that without the brand behind you (as it will not be then) - the ''value'' may not be in your favor.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

The Bellataire is indeed an HPHT-treated stone, and this has some repercussions.

Value-wise, and remember that value is put by the market, not by the way a stone looks, an HPH-stone is worth between 30 and 60% less than a natural untreated diamond. This does not mean that they look worse, it is just their market-value.

On the other hand, HPHT-rounds of this small size are relatively rare.

Live long,

 

[denverappraiser]

I must say, I think this is the first time I’ve seen Lazare being suggested as the cheaper alternative in one of these decisions. In both cases you are paying a considerable premium for the brand identification and deciding which brand more stands for what you want isn’t a gemological or even an appraisal question.

Defining HPHT as not a ‘treatment’ because GIA will issue a report describing them strikes me as a thin argument. Laser drilling, for example, is considered by many, including the FTC, to be a treatment and GIA is happy to issue a report on drilled stones for all who are willing to pay the fees.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[oldminer]

Diamonds of the sort that HTHP makes into whiter stones are scarce in nature. Something on the order of 1 to 2 percent of all diamonds are the proper type of diamond that this treatment will work on and lessen the color visible in the stone. If you want to go for this "rarity" pitch, then the Bellataire product is rarer than natural color diamonds. They are marketed as if they are worth more due to rarity, but actually are sold to retailers for less than untreated, natural colored diamonds of equal color and clarity. It is pure marketing and the consumer is left with a decision although both sides of the argument are rarely discussed.

The opposite argument is that color altered diamonds command a discounted value in the general market. It is just one more thing to disclose to potential consumers. Every little "problem" with any diamond is grounds for a debate on value. A major issue, such as color grade and authenticity, is obviously a large issue which does have an effect on value. Don't expect sellers of HTHP colorless stones to disclose this side of the value argument.

In the end, you have those who won't touch the product, and those who do very nicely selling these stones. Few people with complete knowledge are in the middle ground. As an appraiser, I don't care who likes or dislikes the product, but only report the value the market places on it. Thankfully, the color alteration is totally permanent. I have see many very large Bellataire diamonds and found them well cut and attractive. So long as the consumer pays a reasonable and correct range of price, I have no personal stake in it. It remains a difficult decision once both sides of the situation are revealed to an end user.

 

[Beacon]

I have read about the Belltaire process and also that only a small percentage of diamonds are candidates for this color enhancement process. In that sense, yes, I guess these types of diamonds are rare, but rare is not always better.

Given the choice, I wouldn''t touch it. I would consider it if it were much, much cheaper than the natural diamond and I wanted it for a RHR. But I question the long term value of such a stone. I don''t know what kind of price you could get for it on resale. I just don''t see the point of it.

I would rather have a nice Lazare stone any day!

Sorry to sound negative, but that is just my point of view and something that you might want to consider should you ever wish to trade or sell the stone.

 

[tino]

Thanks all for all your advices, just for you info and to those who ask about prices,here you will find the prices for both diamonds, Im writing from Mexico,thats why maybe the prices can sound higher than the states (Maybe i dont know)

A .59 F/VVS1 Bellataire 3,273 Dlls
A .48 F /VS1 Lazare 2,854 Dlls

 

[Iiro]

The most reputable, and most of of the others too, diamond brands will not sell HPHT diamonds. Lazare has built up a separate marketing arm for them. They do not want to tarnish their own name, I think it tells the story.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/18/2006 7:51:53 PM
Author: tino
Thanks again JhonQuixote I’m kind of confuse here, .If the GIA accept this kind of diamonds they should be ok right? But being honest there have to be something wrong if there are people who doesn’t like it, or we are here talking about just what people prefer? I just want to make sure that the are nothing wrong with these diamonds

Tino,

The diamonds are treated with tremendous pressure and heat to release the brownish color that they have when found and thus appear white. They have to be repolished after the treatment as the heat degrades the surface. (That is assuming of course that they survive the treatment, many do not.)

Some people find it disingenuous to claim that this treatment allows them to restore their intended color when they apparently never actually had the color since being found by man. Others find it perfectly acceptable so long as it is disclosed and still others will remove the engraving from the girdle and try again and again to get a cert without the comment about treating. (Yes, Virginia, there are some nasty people out there!)

So no, there isn''t anything inherently wrong with them, but they are a choice in the market, just like clarity enhanced. If purchased with knowledge and information they can fill a need, or they can be something you choose to avoid. If you ever intend to resell the diamond, you should probably avoid, as reselling is already difficult enough without adding this additional roadblock to your efforts.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/19/2006 1:11:55 PM
Author: tino

Thanks all for all your advices, just for you info and to those who ask about prices,here you will find the prices for both diamonds, Im writing from Mexico,thats why maybe the prices can sound higher than the states (Maybe i dont know)

A .59 F/VVS1 Bellataire 3,273 Dlls
A .48 F /VS1 Lazare 2,854 Dlls

The .48ct at $2,854 is $5,945.83/ct. make that .50ct or greater and the price will go up approximately 20% to $7135/ct or for a .59ct to $4,209.65. When comparing a stone above and below a price break, such at the price jump of around 20% between .49 and .50 it is important to compare apples to apples. Accordingly the Lazare stone is in fact more expensive on a per carat basis if it were compared to a stone of the same size. The Bellataire is actually only $5547.458 per carat, even though it is a higher clarity grade and greater than .50cts. It is actually much less expensive on a grade for grade and size for size comparrison than the Lazare.

Wink

 

[tino]

That´s sounds to me.Because right now I´m looking another diamond a Lazare .57 F/VS1 and the price is 4,203 dlls.

is this price ok??

 

[tino]

hey guys, what do you think about this last option you thing I have a good deal?

Im talking about a Lazare .57 F/VS1 (4,203 dlls)

Thanks

 

[JulieN]

A good deal?

You can get a .8-.9 F VS stone for that price.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 10/30/2006 2:32:40 PM
Author: tino
hey guys, what do you think about this last option you thing I have a good deal?

Im talking about a Lazare .57 F/VS1 (4,203 dlls)

Thanks

I didn''t see an in-house stone of exactly .57, but I did find an excellent hearts and arrows ACA stone at .53 F VS1 for $2200 before the wire discount. So you''d be overpaying by almost double to buy the Lazare.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/a-cut-above-h-a-cut-diamond-114362.htm