bat mitvah questions -- etiquette

[TooPatient]

Figured the ladies here would be most likely to know the answers so I''m posting this here.


FI and I are going to a bat mitzvah later this month. (the invitation was beautiful and very formal)


My questions:

We are planning to give $50 to her chosen charity (her mitzvah project) and a gift ($85) framed blessing.
Is this an apropriate amount for a 12 year old girl bat mitzvah or should we give more?


What is "party atire"?
This was printed on the formal invitation.

 

[mary poppins]

There isn''t really any kind of etiquette regarding the price of gifts to give for a bar or bat mitvah - just what you can afford and are comfortable spending. I think the gifts you''ve chosen are appropriate.

Well, "party attire" is quite vague. Probably anything less than black tie and more than jeans and casual Friday work attire should suffice, with a preference to err on the dressier end of the spectrum.

 

[ts44]

When in doubt, wear a day dress with pumps, and bring a cardigan to modest it up if needed.

Something like this would be perfect, I think, unless it is very late in the evening (which I don''t think a bat mitzvah would be?):

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 5/10/2010 3:56:09 PM
Author: ts44
When in doubt, wear a day dress with pumps, and bring a cardigan to modest it up if needed.

Something like this would be perfect, I think, unless it is very late in the evening (which I don''t think a bat mitzvah would be?):

Cute dress

The service itself is a Saturday morning (so regular Shabbat service clothing). The celebration is the next day from 7-11pm.

 

[ts44]

Well since it starts in the evening I''d wear something like this with peep toe pumps and bring a bolero jacket or jeweled cardigan to cover up with:

 

[ilovesparkles]

That gift is awesome!

A few pieces of info. What is the time on the invite? Most synagogue services start at 9, however the bat mitzvah portion of the services starts 45-60 minutes into the actual service. Unlike church services, people do not all arrive on time to synagogue. People begin trickling in at 9, but the large majority arrive shortly before the Torah service (when the actual bat mitzvah ceremonies will begin). If the synagogue is Conservative, you can count on a 2.5+ hour service given the 9:00 start time. If the synagogue is Reform, it should be a bit shorter. This is why most people don''t arrive on time. In fact, I heard a story from a dear friend of mine, who was the first person to the synagogue AT ALL! because she arrive spot on at 9:00! The rabbi asked and assumed correctly that she was there for the bat mitzvah.

Also, clothing for the service: If it is Conservative, women generally will have their shoulders covered and skirts no higher than their knees in the sanctuary for modesty, but this is not 100% expected, especially of non-Jews, and it depends on how strict the [Jew] is. Reform, it doesn''t matter what you wear. If you are bringing a male guest: Conservative synagogue he will have to wear a kippah/yarmulke, also known as a skull cap. Reform, he is not required to wear anything on his head.

I hope this helps, but doesn''t overwhelm you! I tried to explain without getting too detailed. Sorry if I did! I will check back in if you have any other questions you want answered!

 

[Haven]

Date: 5/10/2010 11:59:48 PM
Author: ilovesparkles
That gift is awesome!

A few pieces of info. What is the time on the invite? Most synagogue services start at 9, however the bat mitzvah portion of the services starts 45-60 minutes into the actual service. Unlike church services, people do not all arrive on time to synagogue. People begin trickling in at 9, but the large majority arrive shortly before the Torah service (when the actual bat mitzvah ceremonies will begin). If the synagogue is Conservative, you can count on a 2.5+ hour service given the 9:00 start time. If the synagogue is Reform, it should be a bit shorter. This is why most people don''t arrive on time. In fact, I heard a story from a dear friend of mine, who was the first person to the synagogue AT ALL! because she arrive spot on at 9:00! The rabbi asked and assumed correctly that she was there for the bat mitzvah.

Also, clothing for the service: If it is Conservative, women generally will have their shoulders covered and skirts no higher than their knees in the sanctuary for modesty, but this is not 100% expected, especially of non-Jews, and it depends on how strict the [Jew] is. Reform, it doesn''t matter what you wear. If you are bringing a male guest: Conservative synagogue he will have to wear a kippah/yarmulke, also known as a skull cap. Reform, he is not required to wear anything on his head.

I hope this helps, but doesn''t overwhelm you! I tried to explain without getting too detailed. Sorry if I did! I will check back in if you have any other questions you want answered!

I''ve never heard of guests arriving late to a service.

I''ll also say that it most certainly does matter what you wear in the Reform synagogues with which I am familiar. I wouldn''t wear bare shoulders to any place of worship.

Where are you from? Perhaps these differences are regional, or due to differences in your particular community. My father is a cantor, so I''ve had experiences with many different synagogues. We''re in the U.S.

I would not arrive to the service late. It would be considered quite rude in my community.

 

[ilovesparkles]

I grew up in MN, specifically St. Paul. Have lived in Omaha now for 6 months. I am not very familiar with my synagogue here yet. But back home, people would trickle in to the service from beginning to end. It would usually start with 15-20 people at 9:00 and then by 10:00 there would be a more substantial number. But it definitely filled in closer to 10:30-11:00. In fact the rabbi jokes that services actually do begin before ma'ariv.

As for the clothes, I would never wear bare shoulders to services no matter where I go. But I worked at a reform shul, and people that were on staff would wear bare shoulders to services frequently.

Am I correct in recalling you are on the east coast? Or am I way off?


ETA: This is of course in reply to Haven's post. And I wanted to also add I apologize if I hurt feelings or misrepresented Reform Judaism by my post. It is only what I have experienced at the synagogues I have been to and been a part of. I appreciate the input from you Haven and any others that have experienced Jewish tradition and expectations differently!

 

[Haven]

ilovesparkles--That's so interesting.

I'm in the suburbs just north of Chicago--so we're not too far from each other!

I should have said that my husband grew up in a traditional synagogue, and people do trickle in (and out) of their High Holy Day services, but those last ALL day. I've been to so many b'nai mitzvah in Reform and Conservative synagogues out here (and some Orthodox) and I've never noticed people come late. Perhaps I just didn't notice it, though. I've been to many non-b'nai mitzvah services, too. How interesting.

I'm certainly no expert in Judaism though. I really was just curious. My entire family is very involved, and I'm the black sheep who works in the secular world and doesn't really attend much, anymore.

I wasn't offended at all by your post, by the way. I see that my response was very short, so I apologize if it came off as defensive. I get shorter and less gracious as the day goes by. Sorry!

I also just realized that *I* wore bare shoulders to my own wedding. I did ask the rabbi if it would be okay beforehand, and he said "Of course." But I'd never attend a service without my shoulders covered. I'm surprised my parents didn't make me cover them, actually!

ETA: I had a good friend growing up (we went to Jewish sleepover camp together in WI) who attended St. Paul Academy. Small world, huh?

 

[ts44]

I suppose I should clarify that my clothing suggestions were for the celebration and not the service, for which I assume the OP would know what would be appropriate in that particular temple. I also assumed the celebration would NOT be at a place of worship, but having never been to a bat mitzvah celebration I suppose I don''t really know if it is or not! Either way, like I said you can''t go wrong with a knee-length party dress and a cardigan on top. It''s pretty much appropriate no matter where you are.

 

[TooPatient]

Thanks everyone.

Services start promptly at 9:00. Where we attend services (same place as the bat mitzvah girl), there is barely a dozen people at 9 and most people come in around 10-10:30. We are conservative so women usually wear knee length+ skirts or dress slacks.

The party will be Sunday night in Seattle (7-11). I think it is at the Seattle Statue Garden? I''d never go bare shoulders, but elbows showing and knee length is fine. I prefer to show little/no cleavage but that is also shown by a fair number of women.

FI has it easy -- suit pants, decent shirt, suit jacket to wear or carry.


Could I get away with a basic black dress for the evening party? (a bit longer than knee length, sleeves just over elbows, fitted but not too fitted, light cleavage -- but I''d wear something with it)

 

[ilovesparkles]

Date: 5/11/2010 10:16:00 AM
Author: Haven
ilovesparkles--That''s so interesting.


I''m in the suburbs just north of Chicago--so we''re not too far from each other!


I should have said that my husband grew up in a traditional synagogue, and people do trickle in (and out) of their High Holy Day services, but those last ALL day. I''ve been to so many b''nai mitzvah in Reform and Conservative synagogues out here (and some Orthodox) and I''ve never noticed people come late. Perhaps I just didn''t notice it, though. I''ve been to many non-b''nai mitzvah services, too. How interesting.


I''m certainly no expert in Judaism though. I really was just curious. My entire family is very involved, and I''m the black sheep who works in the secular world and doesn''t really attend much, anymore.


I wasn''t offended at all by your post, by the way. I see that my response was very short, so I apologize if it came off as defensive. I get shorter and less gracious as the day goes by. Sorry!


I also just realized that *I* wore bare shoulders to my own wedding. I did ask the rabbi if it would be okay beforehand, and he said ''Of course.'' But I''d never attend a service without my shoulders covered. I''m surprised my parents didn''t make me cover them, actually!


ETA: I had a good friend growing up (we went to Jewish sleepover camp together in WI) who attended St. Paul Academy. Small world, huh?

Haven - The Jewish world is a very small world I have found! I also could not imagine wearing bare shoulders at my wedding which is why I opted for a lace shawl. But at my shul, the rabbi specifically asks you to cover your shoulders for modesty in the situation of a wedding. No worries about your post being short! I thought to myself "CRAP you didn''t think through your response before posting at just made a complete @$$ out of yourself! Of course you can give your two cents but don''t generalize it!" So I genuinely meant the apology.

TooPatient - Sorry for the minor thread jack. I posted as much info as I did, because I read your original post, and based on your question assumed you did not attend synagogue and additional information would be helpful. I don''t see why you can''t get away with a "little black dress". I would add a pop of color to be festive, perhaps a light weight pashmina. Are you worried what people will think about your attire? I certainly don''t think that choice would be rude or in poor etiquette. I don''t know much about etiquette, but being in a modest black dress just doesn''t seem like it would be going against social practice. I hope my rambling made sense. Sorry if it didn''t because once again I am up way too late on PS!

 

[TooPatient]

ilovesparkles --

The extra info is much appreciated. I've been attending for several years now but just finished my conversion in January this year. There is still so much that I'm learning about stuff. I've seen bar/bat mitzvahs lead in services before but never been to any of their parties. This will be my first time for that.

Since the mother & grandmother specified "party attire" (on very formal invitations) I figured there must be some standard known by people who attend these parties but, being new to this, I am unaware of.

There is a really long back story, but I REALLY care what this family thinks of me. I want to make a good impression.


Hmmmm....
Splash of color...
I had never even heard of pashmina, but I like that idea. (got to love google)
And maybe shoes...


ETA: I blame all of you

. I never used to care about shoes (or handbags or clothing in general) and now I find myself dressing better and having dreams about shoes.

I used to hate shoe shopping but found myself in a dozen shoe stores this weekend (looking for dance shoes for me and FI) actually liking about 20 pairs of cute little strappy or heeled things in all sorts of great colors and materials and....

 

[TooPatient]

Just an update for everyone:

The bat mitzvah was this last weekend. We went to services Saturday morning and WOW -- she did great.

Then for the celebration Sunday night (last night)....
I wore my black dress and the pinkish/purplish cashmere wrap I bought last week. I even wore makeup

(this was my first time since I was really little and a family member put it on me) and pulled out my little diamond studs (my ears get infected easily so I rarely wear anything).
FI was in his nice suit with the deep blue shirt

.

We got to the place just on time (not too early, not late) and put the wrapped gift on the gift table.

Then it all went wrong...
There wasn''t an escort card with our names on it. We checked for his name, my name, and then just looked down all of the rows. The master list with table assignments was sitting next to the table so we checked there. We each read through the whole list of names -- we weren''t on it.

So, we left.



ETA: I''m not sure what happened, but they were clearly not expecting us. (the girl''s grandma - one of the people organizing the party - saw us at services and looked shocked. She thought we were going to be out of town

)
Rather than embarrass anyone, we left before we were seen.

 

[laine]

TooPatient--I''m so sorry!!! I wonder what went wrong?

 

[sunnyd]

Yikes!!

That''s awful! I hope you took advantage of being dressed up and went for a fancy dinner or drinks?

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Who told them you would be out of town?!?!?!?!

I bet you looked lovely. This was very unfortunate but you acted with grace and class. I''m sorry it all went down that way.

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/24/2010 2:54:32 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Who told them you would be out of town?!?!?!?!

I bet you looked lovely. This was very unfortunate but you acted with grace and class. I''m sorry it all went down that way.

Agreed from the emotie to the very last word.

 

[TooPatient]

I still don''t know what happened. I''m sure I''ll get a phone call when they are going through the gifts and find the one from us.

A likely possibility is that someone marked the wrong names on the guest list. Maybe someone called and said they''d be out of town and the message got only partially passed on...
Hard to say right now. The girl''s mother & grandmother were doing the majority of the planning but it is likely that her father (and maybe even her?) was helping too. Stuff happens.


We should have gone to dinner. I thought about it but we just headed home since FI was tired and I had cramps starting.
Instead we had a quiet evening in fluffy pajamas with nice wine and a funny movie.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Did you send in your RSVP? If so, then there is no excuse.

 

[Haven]

Yikes! When her grandmother saw you two she should have fixed the situation so you never found out you weren''t accounted for.

I''m sorry this happened. That''s very strange.

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 5/24/2010 3:31:32 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Did you send in your RSVP? If so, then there is no excuse.

Carefully filled out with our names, number attending, etc. and mailed it in well before the RSVP date.

They were also notified when we made the donation to the charity for the girl''s mitzvah project (the charity sends notification of who donated and the amount).

 

[ilovesparkles]

Bizarre! I am sorry you got left out on the festivities!