Baskets... Please help educate me

[elwkis86]

Hi all,
I'm trying to educate myself on baskets. At some point, I plan to upgrade my center stone to something in the 2.5-3.5 ct range (round). I haven't decided if I want a solitaire setting or something with diamonds around the band yet.

I've noticed different style of baskets and I'm trying to figure out what I like best, what will be most durable, what will support the stone best etc.

Some pics of bands I've seen online. I'm just looking at the different basket styles here (not the 4 vs 6 prong part--like how the basket attaches to the band). Not sure of the correct terminology. Any help is appreciated, TIA.

T&Co:


Ritani:




random image from google


Michael B:


IDJ (sorry for crummy pic, was a screen grab from a video)

 

[Morenita21]

Out of all the ones above, I like the Tiffany head best. However, I prefer a lower setting and softer, rounder prongs because of daily wear - I’m active and have kids. It’s a personal decision, but take into consideration your daily activities. For instance, if you’re a nurse then they normally go for a lower profile head. Good luck!

 

[molecule]

Without more details, it's hard to recommend where to look but it appears that you like non-cathedral solitaires. My personal favorites are from Brian Gavin and dimendscaasi
BGD:

dimendscaasi:

 

[Double E]

Without more details, it's hard to recommend where to look but it appears that you like non-cathedral solitaires. My personal favorites are from Brian Gavin and dimendscaasi
BGD:

dimendscaasi:

The La Fleur, 2nd picture of BGD is a really beautiful head design, simple yet visualizing its name very well. Seriously considered it as the solitaire for my wife, turned out having a six-prong instead just for higher protection for the stone. However, my impression is that it's been rarely mentioned though there'd be a number of BGD customers on the forum, preferences vary~

Back to OP's questions, noted you are not focusing on 4-prong vs 6-prong at the moment, however, if we're talking about durability & support for the stone, I still feel it's an important decision to make as I feel 6-prong offers slightly more security both for the girdle and potential stone loosening.

As to the attachment between the head (basket) and the band, for peg head style setting, they are soldered together, while in other cases, the whole ring is casted in one piece. I would also like to understand if this is crucial for the durability of the setting, and hope experts could allow us more understanding.

 

[LaylaR]

If you want to keep the same ring through a major upgrade (more than .2mm in diameter), I would recommend a peg head. Now, the words "peg head" bring to mind standardized stock heads that lack the aesthetics many on this forum prefer. This doesn't have to be the case. Any jeweler with a good custom bench should be able to make ring with a custom peg head for you. We just did one for a client of ours that purchased an 8.3mm diamond, but whose goal is to go up to a 9mm diamond eventually.

That said, I see that you are looking at some 4 prong designs as well as six prong. With the size diamonds you are considering I strongly recommend 6 or 8 prongs. Or if you want a four prong head, then double claw prongs holding the diamond would be best.

 

[Matthews1127]

If you want to keep the same ring through a major upgrade (more than .2mm in diameter), I would recommend a peg head. Now, the words "peg head" bring to mind standardized stock heads that lack the aesthetics many on this forum prefer. This doesn't have to be the case. Any jeweler with a good custom bench should be able to make ring with a custom peg head for you. We just did one for a client of ours that purchased an 8.3mm diamond, but whose goal is to go up to a 9mm diamond eventually.

That said, I see that you are looking at some 4 prong designs as well as six prong. With the size diamonds you are considering I strongly recommend 6 or 8 prongs. Or if you want a four prong head, then double claw prongs holding the diamond would be best.

You read my mind...

 

[elwkis86]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Great points about 4 vs 6 prong settings holding the stones in place better.

As to the attachment between the head (basket) and the band, for peg head style setting, they are soldered together, while in other cases, the whole ring is casted in one piece. I would also like to understand if this is crucial for the durability of the setting, and hope experts could allow us more understanding.

^ This is what I'm trying to understand. Is the Tiffany style considered "peg head?" I guess this is what I'm asking--is a single cast product more durable than 2 pieces soldered together? How about serviceable if something breaks? Perhaps 2 piece might be easier to fix?

thx

 

[ringo865]

Two piece will offer more flexibility to get a larger stone as the peg head could be swapped out for a larger, or just a different style, head.

As for durability, depending on the quality of adhesion of the solder line, whether the head is “set into’ the shank or “set upon” the shank like above examples, the skill of the bench, the quality of alloys, a two-piece and cast assembly should hold up similarly.

 

[elwkis86]

Two piece will offer more flexibility to get a larger stone as the peg head could be swapped out for a larger, or just a different style, head.

As for durability, depending on the quality of adhesion of the solder line, whether the head is “set into’ the shank or “set upon” the shank like above examples, the skill of the bench, the quality of alloys, a two-piece and cast assembly should hold up similarly.

Thanks. I think I'm leaning towards a 6 prong setting vs the 4 prong given the size of the stone. This just popped up on the IDJ Instagram page (I wish I could find it on their website--snapping screencaps of videos is hard). Is this an example of the "set into" that you describe above?

 

[LaylaR]

T
Is the Tiffany style considered "peg head?" I guess this is what I'm asking--is a single cast product more durable than 2 pieces soldered together? How about serviceable if something breaks? Perhaps 2 piece might be easier to fix?

thx

It depends on who makes it. Some designers/manufacturers make it in one piece, some make them in two. For example do our New York Classic in two pieces and I believe the Vatche U-113 is also cast in two pieces. But that's not the case with every Tiffany style. I remember that last year I was looking for a setting similar to the Tiffany style for a client with a very limited budget and I did find one for them, but it was a single casting. So your best bet is to ask your vendor these questions specific to the setting you are considering. And if they say that it is a single casting, ask them if they can do it in two, if that's what you want, and explain to them clearly that your goal is to have a setting with a swapable head so that you can upgrade to a larger diamond.

 

[Octo2005]

Thanks. I think I'm leaning towards a 6 prong setting vs the 4 prong given the size of the stone. This just popped up on the IDJ Instagram page (I wish I could find it on their website--snapping screencaps of videos is hard). Is this an example of the "set into" that you describe above?

IMHO, this ring looks like one unfortunate whack and the head would come right off. I am not speaking to this ring in particular, but more to this style. This setting style just seems to place so much stress potential in such a small area of connection.

For a larger stone I much prefer a cathedral setting where it attaches to the band in 3 places or settings with a large donut/basket, so that there is more surface area in the way that the stone is connected.

 

[ringo865]

Thanks. I think I'm leaning towards a 6 prong setting vs the 4 prong given the size of the stone. This just popped up on the IDJ Instagram page (I wish I could find it on their website--snapping screencaps of videos is hard). Is this an example of the "set into" that you describe above?

No this is “set upon” and as mentioned above, with just one point of connection, something as simple (and tragic) as putting your hand in the washing machine could easily know that big old crown holding the diamond right off the ring. Add a cathedral or additional points of connection for security. I’ll find pics.

 

[ringo865]

These two from above, one has the bottom of the basket incorporated into the shank, the second, the shank splits and arms upward forming the prongs.

 

[ringo865]

a couple more examples of peg heads versus integrated from my personal collection.

Stuller Solstice - note how the head is "down in" the shank. Connected on the sides and bottom. This is similar in style to the Tiffany posted in your OP. This has six prongs.


Peg head also down lower in the ring. Attached on the bottom, but has protection from the side stone on either side. This has six prongs (it's a cushion cut)


Cast as one piece shank and prongs together. Connected at many points. Harder to get much of a size upgrade with this setting. Four prongs integrated into the entire setting.



This one is also Stuller. I picked out both the shank and the head and my jeweler assembled it for me and set a diamond I had in a different setting. Four prongs here too.

The shank has a very low cathedral and was made for a peg head. I didn't find any Stuller peg heads that I wanted for this project. I liked a particular "basket" head/crown. My jeweler soldered this head into the space between the cathedral arms. I asked them to orient the prongs NSEW (like the one above, cuz I like that look and I can better see the scrollwork on the basket oriented this way). The head is attached only on the bottom of the basket/top of the shank and no attachment to the cathedral sides. Some rings do make another connection on the cathedral sides.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The 6 prong setting looks more rounded were the 4 prong looks more squarish. Here's my wife's 3.34ct. reset from a 4 into a 6 prong.

 

[elwkis86]

Thanks, this is very helpful!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Out of all the ones above, I like the Tiffany head best. However, I prefer a lower setting and softer, rounder prongs because of daily wear - I’m active and have kids. It’s a personal decision, but take into consideration your daily activities. For instance, if you’re a nurse then they normally go for a lower profile head. Good luck!

Yes, but a higher setting will make the stone appear larger.

 

[elwkis86]

Yes, but a higher setting will make the stone appear larger.

touche

 

[elwkis86]

So this is what I'm thinking so far:
- 6 prong more sturdy than 4
- want diamonds all around the band (essentially look like an eternity band)
- want the diamond set higher
- sounds like we want it to be a peg head, set into the band (correct?)

I don't need to worry about upgrading the diamond again. When I buy this ring / diamond, it will be the last.

Now I just need to find a band that fits those parameters.

Thanks!

 

[LaylaR]

A few things to consider:

1. Most any jeweler that does custom work on this board can provide you with a 6 prong, peg head, pave shank setting. And there are many designer or stock settings that have those parameters as well. They do not all use the same manufacturing methods, and if you start looking into custom work you will have a lot of information thrown at you about casting, CADs, handforging, etc. So here's the thread that will help you decipher that: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-does-it-all-work.244700/

2. In general, I recommend 3/4 eternity instead of full eternity to allow for easy sizing. Especially if you live overseas, and you purchase from a jeweler in the US, it may not be feasible to deal with customs every time you need to size the ring. And local jewelers (even if in the US) can have varying levels of competency with sizing pave. Some will tell you it can't be sized, though it can. And a woman's finger size can change dramatically over her lifetime due to weight gain, illness, pregnancy, etc. and having a sizing bar area can make this easier.

3. There are two main types of pave and they are not equal in durability: french cut and bright cut. Here is a thread that discusses pave durability and types (Full disclosure: before I entered the trade I was the poster named Gypsy in that thread) https://www.pricescope.com/communit...his-stone.219137/page-2#post-3981481#p3981481 And you should read though it.

 

[elwkis86]

Thank you very much for the thoughtful reply LaylaR. I read through both of your links, and then looked at some of the vendors PS recommends here. I came up with these 3 settings that I really like. I believe that the VC ones are hand-forged which you mention makes the ring much stronger. I', not sure about the BE settings though?

I much prefer the look of the full eternity band to the 3/4. Hopefully each of these vendors would be able to make a full eternity band. I live an hour from NYC, so I'm not concerned about finding competent jewelers--and it looks like Brilliantly Engaged is located there as well. Worse case, I have the ring redone in the future...


Like the 6 prongs, wish the diamonds were cut deeper into the band. Also, this head looks similar to the IDJ one?
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/six-prong-pave-solitaire-with-scalloped-basket



4 prong, and with an OEC stone (sure that can be changed), but looks stronger:
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/solitaire-in-multi-row-pave-with-old-european-cut


I think this one from Brilliantly engaged is my favorite. How to tell if it's hand-forged?
https://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/amber

 

[kmoro]

Thank you very much for the thoughtful reply LaylaR. I read through both of your links, and then looked at some of the vendors PS recommends here. I came up with these 3 settings that I really like. I believe that the VC ones are hand-forged which you mention makes the ring much stronger. I', not sure about the BE settings though?

I much prefer the look of the full eternity band to the 3/4. Hopefully each of these vendors would be able to make a full eternity band. I live an hour from NYC, so I'm not concerned about finding competent jewelers--and it looks like Brilliantly Engaged is located there as well. Worse case, I have the ring redone in the future...


Like the 6 prongs, wish the diamonds were cut deeper into the band. Also, this head looks similar to the IDJ one?
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/six-prong-pave-solitaire-with-scalloped-basket



4 prong, and with an OEC stone (sure that can be changed), but looks stronger:
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/solitaire-in-multi-row-pave-with-old-european-cut


I think this one from Brilliantly engaged is my favorite. How to tell if it's hand-forged?
https://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/amber

Just gonna chime in on the full eternity band ... I mean no disrespect - you said you prefer the look and there is no arguing with that .... but, I do hope you give it more thought from a practical stand-point. The biggest one is that you won’t be able to resize it, and expecting your lady’s finger to stay the same size over a lifetime is a bit unrealistic. It’s also not all that comfortable to have diamonds between the fingers ... some people tolerate it better than others. And, the inner part of the ring will take a beating ... unlike a classic eternity band that will turn and distribute the beating, an engagement ring will always have the same part of the band on the inside of the hand to take the repeated beating in one area (all of my rings like this still have pristine polish on the top, but the part of the band on the inside is scratched like crazy).

In your first picture, the head is not like the IDJ one - you can see how theprongs are attached around a wider area, six points close together forming a wider base ... so it’s not attached at just one single point. It still looks rather delicate to me, though.

In the second setting, there are diamonds around the outside of the band. If you’re planning to pair it with another ring, the diamonds might “eat into” the other ring - this could be a problem with any diamonds around the shank, depending on how they’re set.

Not too many rings are hand forged ... I would suggest not worrying about it too much. If you find a setting that you love, I don’t think that the hand-forge issue should be a deal-breaker. I do think a larger stone may warrant six prongs; personally would feel better about the security; however, if you really like the look of four, I’ve heard that if a four-prong is done properly, the diamond will not fall out even if one of the prongs breaks off.

That would be my two cents

 

[LaylaR]

I can't comment on other vendor's merchandise. That said, for any design you like, ask the vendor if they can/will adapt a peg head connection to it.

 

[flyingpig]

I really miss gypsy. It was a joy to read her unfiltered posts on settings and custom work.

 

[foxinsox]

Just gonna chime in on the full eternity band ... I mean no disrespect - you said you prefer the look and there is no arguing with that .... but, I do hope you give it more thought from a practical stand-point. The biggest one is that you won’t be able to resize it, and expecting your lady’s finger to stay the same size over a lifetime is a bit unrealistic. It’s also not all that comfortable to have diamonds between the fingers ... some people tolerate it better than others. And, the inner part of the ring will take a beating ... unlike a classic eternity band that will turn and distribute the beating, an engagement ring will always have the same part of the band on the inside of the hand to take the repeated beating in one area (all of my rings like this still have pristine polish on the top, but the part of the band on the inside is scratched like crazy).

I would worry that a full eternity band on an ering will see damage to the diamonds as well as the band on the palm side even to the point of them cracking if you use your hands a lot or carry things. How narrow will you have the band? What is your current setting? Has it held up ok with what you currently do?

 

[elwkis86]

I would worry that a full eternity band on an ering will see damage to the diamonds as well as the band on the palm side even to the point of them cracking if you use your hands a lot or carry things. How narrow will you have the band? What is your current setting? Has it held up ok with what you currently do?

Current setting is a 6 prong, solitaire with a rb stone, 1.7 carats. I have the 2.86 ct T&Co shared prong eternity band, which I wear on my right hand most of the time, and find very comfortable. Occasionally I'll wear them together, but I much prefer the look of them on separate hands. Feel it balances my hands out a bit... So I'm a bit less concerned about diamonds on the side of the band, as the e-ring is likely to be worn alone most of the time.

 

[elwkis86]

Not too many rings are hand forged ... I would suggest not worrying about it too much. If you find a setting that you love, I don’t think that the hand-forge issue should be a deal-breaker. I do think a larger stone may warrant six prongs; personally would feel better about the security; however, if you really like the look of four, I’ve heard that if a four-prong is done properly, the diamond will not fall out even if one of the prongs breaks off.

That would be my two cents

Thx all for the reply.. Open to suggestions for other settings that fit my description. I think I actually prefer the look of 6, but I'm seeing more 4... thanks!

 

[foxinsox]

Current setting is a 6 prong, solitaire with a rb stone, 1.7 carats. I have the 2.86 ct T&Co shared prong eternity band, which I wear on my right hand most of the time, and find very comfortable. Occasionally I'll wear them together, but I much prefer the look of them on separate hands. Feel it balances my hands out a bit... So I'm a bit less concerned about diamonds on the side of the band, as the e-ring is likely to be worn alone most of the time.

I was meaning the eternity band part of your ering shank, not 3-sided pave or pave on the basket though I do think the latter is a risk to other bands as you've surmised. If you're not wearing a 3-sided pave or pave-basket ring next to another diamond band regularly, it's not an issue.
I was actually meaning the diamonds on the bottom of the band run the risk of being cracked when you use your hand to grasp anything - in a standard eternity, the ring will rotate a bit so it's not always the same diamonds at the palmside bearing the brunt of handling.
But for an ering with a full eternity shank, the main diamond at the top will stay on top and the palmside diamonds risk always being the ones that contact door knobs, suitcase handles, hand rails, etc and therefore run a higher risk of cracking or chipping as a result.

 

[LaylaR]

I really miss gypsy. It was a joy to read her unfiltered posts on settings and custom work.

Thank you flyingpig. My posts are filtered on the forum. But if you do want advice, I will always-- on or off the boards-- give you the best in my ability to give. My clients often deal with Gypsy. And HPD hired me because I am Gypsy. So... I'm still here if you need me.