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Bad idea to buy without IS/ASET?

cardinalsfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
33
I'm considering two different vendors' virtual overseas MRBs (in-house stones are not available for the size/budget I'm looking for). Neither vendor can provide an IS/ASET. There is a 10-day return policy, but I'd have to pay for shipping. Is it a terrible idea to buy without an IS/ASET if the HCA is <2?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,226
Do you have pictures of the stones? If so and they look good then may be worth ordering. If you have no pictures at all then No,
would not be worth ordering IMO.

If you have pictures, please post the pics or links to the stones where they are put on hold.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
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2,727
If they can provide well taken magnified images, that may be sufficient.
But I am more concerned about the not-free10 day return policy
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,517
If the return shipping cost is rather small compared to the potential savings on buying this diamond at a distance without the images, you are still okay returning it.
If the HCA is <2 and the symmetry and polish are Excellent and if the critical angles are not extreme, but in the safe zone, then maybe you will save some money and get a very nice diamond. The risk is nominal if you can stand the return issue hassle and the somewhat uncertain feeling with taking on some element of risk to save sufficient money to make it sensible.. Check the HCA for the "LooksLike" visual size estimate. If it is less than average, then avoid the stone.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 21, 2004
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8,882
I would be concerned about the overseas vendor too. Laws are different in different places. Issues like what happens if it gets lost in shipping and bank foreign-exchange fees can turn out to be pretty important.
 

MsShnooks

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
168

That links explains a bit about the different proportion. I am not having much luck clicking on the links but if the videos look good, then it’s worth ordering the diamond to have a look in person. Further to the comments above, I’d add to check out taxes and duties and how you can get them back if you return the stone.
 

cardinalsfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
33
@MsShnooks thanks for the link. I'm a little concerned that the pavilion angle is a little high on both stones. Noted on looking into the taxes and fees issue.

@lovedogs thank you, what is it about the first stone that you don't like? For the second one, should I be concerned that the pavilion angle is a little high (i.e. there might be some 41 or 41+ contributing to the average)?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,276
@MsShnooks thanks for the link. I'm a little concerned that the pavilion angle is a little high on both stones. Noted on looking into the taxes and fees issue.

@lovedogs thank you, what is it about the first stone that you don't like? For the second one, should I be concerned that the pavilion angle is a little high (i.e. there might be some 41 or 41+ contributing to the average)?

I am not anywhere near as good at eyeballing stones and understanding the factors contributing to looks compared to someone like @flyingpig , but I'll try to explain. To be fair, I don't like the video of the 2nd stone either, but the numbers are much more promising. The 2nd video is hard to parse because of the lighting and I feel like it was taken at a weird angle.

For the first one, there's something about how the arrows converge in the middle that I dont love. It's almost like the ends of the arrows (not the pointy parts facing outwards, but the "shafts" that come together in the middle) are kind of crowding the middle of the stone. Sorry I know that's a crazy sounding explanation but that's what I'm seeing. The thing I do like the about the 1st one are the "fat" arrows. I like that look overall. Here's one with "Fat" arrows that I prefer because the arrows look less "crowded" to my eye. Not saying but this one, but just using as an example using a quick search. https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/183724...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
 

cardinalsfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
33
@lovedogs thank you for the detailed explanation! I do see what you mean about the "crowding" in the middle of the first one. Perhaps if the pavilion angle were 40.6 there would be less of that. The second stone's video was badly taken, I agree.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,984
#1 has noticeable leakage
#2 has wonky pavilion

Both are below 90/100 in my book
agree with a *
*This is an opinion based on less than ideal data subject to the possibility of being over turned if better data is presented.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
12,276
#1 has noticeable leakage
#2 has wonky pavilion

Both are below 90/100 in my book

@flyingpig you are an expert at seeing *why* certain stones dont look ideal based on factors of cut. For my own education, do you have an explanation for what I described above about the arrows on stone 1 looking "crowded"? Is that something related to cut angles, leakage, or just my own personal preferences about aesthetics ?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
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2,727
@flyingpig you are an expert at seeing *why* certain stones dont look ideal based on factors of cut. For my own education, do you have an explanation for what I described above about the arrows on stone 1 looking "crowded"? Is that something related to cut angles, leakage, or just my own personal preferences about aesthetics ?

It is the combination of the proportions, lighting, photography and cut quality.

1. Short LGH, small table, very slightly shallow pavilion (within the ideal range) make the arrows thicker and elongated.
2. Due to photography and lighting conditions, you have the areas circled in red appear dark and part of the arrows. Imagine the areas circle in red are white. It wont look as crowded
3. Due to variation in PA, you extra obstruction (circled in yellow)


20210115_115938.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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2,727
I'm so glad I found this forum. Thank you, @flyingpig and @Karl_K! Are these the areas of leakage?

Screen Shot maybe leakage.jpg

Yeap kinda..

I redraw the line. It needs to be a solid sharp defined triangle with just one color in most cases.

What you see here is a mixture of backlight and weak reflection of light from low and high angles.

20210115_131223.jpg
 
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Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,984
These computer generated images show back lighting only and the leakage present in "perfectly" cut stones.
The light areas between the arrow shafts is where leakage will start to show.
In well cut stones the leakage is minimal but gets significant the more deep the pavilion gets or steep deep the stone is.
The shapes of this area will vary depending on the configuration.
If there is a large variation around the stone in this area the pavilion could be wonky.
backlightdcdefaultideal.jpg
_38946.jpg

 
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