B&M Sales Reps

[About2ask]

Hey everyone! I''ve recently gone into a few B&M stores in the mall just to test my diamond knowledge against theirs. A few stores that I visited are Reeds, Kay, Friedman''s, and Zales. When talking to a few of their sales reps, who all looked to be in their mid-late 20s, none of them knew a thing about Hearts and Arrows. When I asked, they would look at me with a blank stare like I was speaking in Latin.

I assume that most people in any profession will want to be as knowledgeable as possible about their trade, but these people have no clue. Am I just speaking to the rare selection of people that don''t know about H&A, or are they purposely NOT taught about the cut?

If it wasn''t for the multiple members consisting of vendors, appraisers, and customers, I would believe that the term Hearts and Arrows was a mere hoax.

So basically, after my rant, how come I keep getting blank stares when I say "H&A"?

 

[beach]

LOL.... Premium places will know about H&A. Many of the B&M reps you mentioned are not trained well and are only taught how to sell and close the deal... educating the customer is not really their concern. They are taught the basics and in almost all cases, consumers are not as educated as you are now.... so they really don't need the knowledge and consumers do not question them... It is kinda sad becasue alot of consumers trust these reps to help them make informed decisions when in fact it is all a show most of the time... You will hear them say how beautiful the diamond is etc... never saying anything negative in order to not lose the sale. Of course it could just be ignorance too and they may not even know better....

I will never forget I had a rep (one of the managers) show me a diamond with literally a HUGE feather going right accross a one ct diamond. And mind you I had around a 10000 budget at the time. You could see the feather with no problem and it spanned half the diamond. He told me that it was very desirable and a high quality diamond for an ering LOL!!!! He said that he liked me and would give me a special deal. And this is a very well known place in Tampa too!!!!!!!!! I have no problem sharing the name either, it was Continental Jewelry!!! The rep then tried to wow me with all of his knowledge and say he knows diamonds and that he hand picks everything blah blah blah.... It was probably and I2 maybe and of course they had no cert. Their EGL certs were way off too and they tried saying how they are the best certs to have around LOL.......The diamonds were all over rated on the certs. This is when I learned to stay away from EGL! Very sad and I wonder how many people have gotten suckered by him... Very charismatic too but antisocial indeed...

Of course, there are always exceptions and some reps can be very knowledgable but that is very rare from my experience and high end places are where the exceptions usually are.... Trust your gut and go to places where you think you will be best helped....

 

[Kelli]

This has been my experience as well. I never met a mall jeweler who knew a thing about cut quality. The people at Jared knew some things at least, but their prices were rediculuous.

 

[Tuckins1]

Ugh... Most maul store vendors are just people who needed a job... I can''t believe the crap that some of those stores try to pass of as "high quality" to customers who just don''t know any better!!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

H&A is a term. Rather than focus on H&A, ask for an AGS000 and see what happens. That is what I asked for when comparing diamonds at B&M and have noticed almost every time, rather than the SA looking at stones in the showcase, they check their database. It''s my guess that they save stones like those for people who know their stuff. If a SA doesn''t have a clue when you bring up AGS, then ask for a manager. The one store who''ve I''ve found to be accomodating to researching well cut stones is Ben Bridge.

 

[karend26]

Date: 12/21/2008 4:31:52 PM
Author: beach
LOL.... Premium places will know about H&A. Many of the B&M reps you mentioned are not trained well and are only taught how to sell and close the deal... educating the customer is not really their concern. They are taught the basics and in almost all cases, consumers are not as educated as you are now.... so they really don''t need the knowledge and consumers do not question them... It is kinda sad becasue alot of consumers trust these reps to help them make informed decisions when in fact it is all a show most of the time... You will hear them say how beautiful the diamond is etc... never saying anything negative in order to not lose the sale. Of course it could just be ignorance too and they may not even know better....

I will never forget I had a rep (one of the managers) show me a diamond with literally a HUGE feather going right accross a one ct diamond. And mind you I had around a 10000 budget at the time. You could see the feather with no problem and it spanned half the diamond. He told me that it was very desirable and a high quality diamond for an ering LOL!!!! He said that he liked me and would give me a special deal. And this is a very well known place in Tampa too!!!!!!!!! I have no problem sharing the name either, it was Continental Jewelry!!! The rep then tried to wow me with all of his knowledge and say he knows diamonds and that he hand picks everything blah blah blah.... It was probably and I2 maybe and of course they had no cert. Their EGL certs were way off too and they tried saying how they are the best certs to have around LOL.......The diamonds were all over rated on the certs. This is when I learned to stay away from EGL! Very sad and I wonder how many people have gotten suckered by him... Very charismatic too but antisocial indeed...

Of course, there are always exceptions and some reps can be very knowledgable but that is very rare from my experience and high end places are where the exceptions usually are.... Trust your gut and go to places where you think you will be best helped....

Ha! I had a similar experience at Continental in Tampa. I asked for eye clean SI1 or 2 and they brought 3 or 4 diamonds that all had inclusions that I could see clearly with the naked eye, and all were uncertified. Hmmm...wonder why. AND the prices they wanted for these crap diamonds were a joke. I felt like I must have had sucker printed on my forehead or something.

Just curious, BEACH, are there any B&M''s in the Tampa area that you would recommend?

 

[yellowrose]

I''ll give a little bit of information from the other side of the counter - I developed an intense interest in diamonds, gemstones and jewlery-making, so I spent a few years studying and learning as much as I could via online sites (including this one). The time came that my youngest child started middle school, so I felt that I could work outside the home again, so, with the support of my entire family, I applied for and got a job at a local B&M jewelry store.

I was astonished at my experience - there was no customer service, no sharing of knowledge with customers, just sell, Sell, SELL! And Heaven help you if a customer came in "just looking" and you took the time to listen to them, share information with them, maybe clean and inspect whatever jewelry that they had on at the time and didn''t push a sale on them. I cannot tell you how many times I was spoken to by the Manager, Assistant Manager and District Manager of the store, all of whom just didn''t get the principle of building a relationship with a customer, who may not be buying at that moment, but who, with some basic footwork and respect, would come back and buy at a later time. Ironically, I was usually their top salesman each month for the time that I was there; however, that didn''t stop them from treating me poorly, because of my "old-fashioned style of selling", which was considered "outdated" and "a waste of time".

And as far as knowledge of the product, I assure you, that was not encouraged by the organization that I worked for; in fact, it was greeted with suspicion by both management and the other employees in the store.

Again, I can only speak from my personal experience with the organization that I worked for. I''m sure that there are other B&M jewelers that work differently; however, I will tell you that I learned that the employees in the store that I worked in had come from other B&M jeweler organizations ...

Yellowrose

 

[Judah Gutwein]

About2Ask

Not to patronize (any of) you..but it is true that Pricescopers typically know a WHOLE lot more than your average mall store jewelery sales rep.
It is also true (and in "fairness" to B&M jewelers) that many B&M sales reps. aren't baffled by ignorance, they are simply not interested in learning about stuff they won't need to use in order to service their clientele.

The reality is, many B&M mall store types (of course I'm not making a blanket statement for everyone), will offer inferior merchandise to unsuspecting consumers at high premiums. The customers who buy this stuff, would never consider buying on the net and (perhaps as a result) may not bother doing the proper research on the net.

In this scenario, mall store sales reps. are not looking to sell to you guys, since they are actually going after a totally different crowd/market.
When you walk in armed with this comprehensive knowledge, they know they lost you the minute you start talking. In short, you are not their customer.

Conversely, the B&M jewelers who cater to educated consumers and who embrace internet savvy shoppers, in the information they provide, the quality of their merchandise and competitive prices, are an incredible asset to our industry. They literally offer the best of both worlds (the Internet education, information, prices and quality, with the personal hands on touch ony a B&M can provide.).

You'll find some of them right here on PS!

Best,

 

[:)]

A stone does not have to have the H&A optical symmetry to be well cut. I agree with others who recommended asking specifically for AGS0 stones (although many mall jewelers do not carry AGS), or taking an idealscope (presuming you are looking at round stones given your search for h&a) with you to evaluate.

For many mall jewelry salespeople, working in a mall jewelry store (esp during the holiday season), is indeed just a job for a paycheck, and not a career choice - some reps will be knowledgeable, others are just punching the clock for a paycheck.

......

Have you ever tried to pimp the cashier at McDonalds on nutrition?

 

[gryffindor]

I think the "Peerless" line of diamonds at Jared''s are high performing AGS certified stones. I saw one and compared it with one of the "Leo" diamonds and there was a clear difference. The sales person I had seemed more knowledgeable that the ones I met at other B&Ms. He was an older man and showed me the hearts and arrows in the Peerless stone, the laser inscription, gave me a loupe, and even gave me a copy of the AGS certificate and told me about AGS 000. However, I didn''t get into trying to stump him. The stone was somewhat overpriced, but at least whoever does purchase that stone will be getting a nice product for their money. At one B&M, they gave me a lengthy diatribe of why EGL grades are superior and their EGL stones will beat Blue Nile''s prices, they guarantee it or will double the price difference! In my head I was laughing, but I didn''t feel like wasting my breath to point out that Blue Nile doesn''t sell any EGL stones because I''m sure they had some rehearsed answer ready to argue back with me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/21/2008 4:24:03 PM
Author:About2ask
So basically, after my rant, how come I keep getting blank stares when I say ''H&A''?

look for stores that carries HOF.

 

[beach]

Date: 12/22/2008 9:57:35 AM
Author: karend26

Date: 12/21/2008 4:31:52 PM
Author: beach
LOL.... Premium places will know about H&A. Many of the B&M reps you mentioned are not trained well and are only taught how to sell and close the deal... educating the customer is not really their concern. They are taught the basics and in almost all cases, consumers are not as educated as you are now.... so they really don't need the knowledge and consumers do not question them... It is kinda sad becasue alot of consumers trust these reps to help them make informed decisions when in fact it is all a show most of the time... You will hear them say how beautiful the diamond is etc... never saying anything negative in order to not lose the sale. Of course it could just be ignorance too and they may not even know better....

I will never forget I had a rep (one of the managers) show me a diamond with literally a HUGE feather going right accross a one ct diamond. And mind you I had around a 10000 budget at the time. You could see the feather with no problem and it spanned half the diamond. He told me that it was very desirable and a high quality diamond for an ering LOL!!!! He said that he liked me and would give me a special deal. And this is a very well known place in Tampa too!!!!!!!!! I have no problem sharing the name either, it was Continental Jewelry!!! The rep then tried to wow me with all of his knowledge and say he knows diamonds and that he hand picks everything blah blah blah.... It was probably and I2 maybe and of course they had no cert. Their EGL certs were way off too and they tried saying how they are the best certs to have around LOL.......The diamonds were all over rated on the certs. This is when I learned to stay away from EGL! Very sad and I wonder how many people have gotten suckered by him... Very charismatic too but antisocial indeed...

Of course, there are always exceptions and some reps can be very knowledgable but that is very rare from my experience and high end places are where the exceptions usually are.... Trust your gut and go to places where you think you will be best helped....

Ha! I had a similar experience at Continental in Tampa. I asked for eye clean SI1 or 2 and they brought 3 or 4 diamonds that all had inclusions that I could see clearly with the naked eye, and all were uncertified. Hmmm...wonder why. AND the prices they wanted for these crap diamonds were a joke. I felt like I must have had sucker printed on my forehead or something.

Just curious, BEACH, are there any B&M's in the Tampa area that you would recommend?

I highly recommend Avant Gold Jewelers off Dale Mabry. Richard McFarlin is the manager there and he is great! I bought my diamond from Whiteflash
https://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1466923.htm#
and the ering and our bands from from him (Jeff Cooper Design). He even sourced several other diamonds for me to look at (with the specs I was looking for). He is honest and said that the diamond from Whiteflash was top notch and so was the pricing. Jeff Cooper ended up setting the diamond too.

 

[wacamaster]

I''ve gone to 2 places now and both were pretty bad. Every time I asked about cut quality they shrugged and blew me off. I remember the one lady pulled up some diamonds on the computer and says... "oh see that''s a perfect cut there" she was referring to the width and length dimensions which were the same. She didn''t have a clue about table and depth.

The other guy I ask what kind of cut is it... he says "princess" I say ya I know, but what quality cut.. his response.. "oh these are all good cuts". Then he pulled out a "Diamond Report" of some kind and showed me what I was looking for should be 11k/carat. I''m like.. that''s high... they are running 8-9k carat online. He then said it''s not possible and him and his wife were attacking me. I got out of there on the double!

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 12/22/2008 11:22:49 AM
Author: Judah Gutwein
About2Ask

Not to patronize (any of) you..but it is true that Pricescopers typically know a WHOLE lot more than your average mall store jewelery sales rep.
It is also true (and in ''fairness'' to B&M jewelers) that many B&M sales reps. aren''t baffled by ignorance, they are simply not interested in learning about stuff they won''t need to use in order to service their clientele....


Conversely, the B&M jewelers who cater to educated consumers and who embrace internet savvy shoppers, in the information they provide, the quality of their merchandise and competitive prices, are an incredible asset to our industry. They literally offer the best of both worlds (the Internet education, information, prices and quality, with the personal hands on touch ony a B&M can provide.).

You''ll find some of them right here on PS!

Best,

Judah,

Just a quick note to thank you for an insightful post. The rule here of...fool me once, shame on you, and fool me twice, shame on me...can well apply.

In these threads, we can come to learn about better B&M shops, yours included. Upper right, under resources...the tradition has been on this board to develop a systematic place to capture info about such shops, too.

I should probably create a thread, asking about resources anew in the DC metro area where I''m from...as I think the information provided there, and knowledge about this area altogether, are a bit thin...and I can''t necessarily say that needs to be attributed to the absence of quality vendors, necessarily...but maybe more primarily and simply a lack of good information and knowledge.

 

[karend26]

Date: 12/22/2008 9:31:27 PM
Author: beach

style="WIDTH: 96.38%; HEIGHT: 447px">Date: 12/22/2008 9:57:35 AM
Author: karend26

Date: 12/21/2008 4:31:52 PM
Author: beach
LOL.... Premium places will know about H&A. Many of the B&M reps you mentioned are not trained well and are only taught how to sell and close the deal... educating the customer is not really their concern. They are taught the basics and in almost all cases, consumers are not as educated as you are now.... so they really don''t need the knowledge and consumers do not question them... It is kinda sad becasue alot of consumers trust these reps to help them make informed decisions when in fact it is all a show most of the time... You will hear them say how beautiful the diamond is etc... never saying anything negative in order to not lose the sale. Of course it could just be ignorance too and they may not even know better....

I will never forget I had a rep (one of the managers) show me a diamond with literally a HUGE feather going right accross a one ct diamond. And mind you I had around a 10000 budget at the time. You could see the feather with no problem and it spanned half the diamond. He told me that it was very desirable and a high quality diamond for an ering LOL!!!! He said that he liked me and would give me a special deal. And this is a very well known place in Tampa too!!!!!!!!! I have no problem sharing the name either, it was Continental Jewelry!!! The rep then tried to wow me with all of his knowledge and say he knows diamonds and that he hand picks everything blah blah blah.... It was probably and I2 maybe and of course they had no cert. Their EGL certs were way off too and they tried saying how they are the best certs to have around LOL.......The diamonds were all over rated on the certs. This is when I learned to stay away from EGL! Very sad and I wonder how many people have gotten suckered by him... Very charismatic too but antisocial indeed...

Of course, there are always exceptions and some reps can be very knowledgable but that is very rare from my experience and high end places are where the exceptions usually are.... Trust your gut and go to places where you think you will be best helped....

Ha! I had a similar experience at Continental in Tampa. I asked for eye clean SI1 or 2 and they brought 3 or 4 diamonds that all had inclusions that I could see clearly with the naked eye, and all were uncertified. Hmmm...wonder why. AND the prices they wanted for these crap diamonds were a joke. I felt like I must have had sucker printed on my forehead or something.

Just curious, BEACH, are there any B&M''s in the Tampa area that you would recommend?

I highly recommend Avant Gold Jewelers off Dale Mabry. Richard McFarlin is the manager there and he is great! I bought my diamond from Whiteflash
https://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1466923.htm#
and the ering and our bands from from him (Jeff Cooper Design). He even sourced several other diamonds for me to look at (with the specs I was looking for). He is honest and said that the diamond from Whiteflash was top notch and so was the pricing. Jeff Cooper ended up setting the diamond too.

Thanks for the tip! We''ll definitely check Avant out. We''re working with Silverburg''s on S. Dale Mabry now. We''ve asked to see some AGS0''s and the manager is supposed to be getting some for us to look at.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 12/22/2008 11:01:43 AM
Author: yellowrose
I''ll give a little bit of information from the other side of the counter - I developed an intense interest in diamonds, gemstones and jewlery-making, so I spent a few years studying and learning as much as I could via online sites (including this one). The time came that my youngest child started middle school, so I felt that I could work outside the home again, so, with the support of my entire family, I applied for and got a job at a local B&M jewelry store.


I was astonished at my experience - there was no customer service, no sharing of knowledge with customers, just sell, Sell, SELL! And Heaven help you if a customer came in ''just looking'' and you took the time to listen to them, share information with them, maybe clean and inspect whatever jewelry that they had on at the time and didn''t push a sale on them. I cannot tell you how many times I was spoken to by the Manager, Assistant Manager and District Manager of the store, all of whom just didn''t get the principle of building a relationship with a customer, who may not be buying at that moment, but who, with some basic footwork and respect, would come back and buy at a later time. Ironically, I was usually their top salesman each month for the time that I was there; however, that didn''t stop them from treating me poorly, because of my ''old-fashioned style of selling'', which was considered ''outdated'' and ''a waste of time''.


And as far as knowledge of the product, I assure you, that was not encouraged by the organization that I worked for; in fact, it was greeted with suspicion by both management and the other employees in the store.


Again, I can only speak from my personal experience with the organization that I worked for. I''m sure that there are other B&M jewelers that work differently; however, I will tell you that I learned that the employees in the store that I worked in had come from other B&M jeweler organizations ...


Yellowrose

Wow... What a lucky customer to have come across YOU in that store! I actually contemplated the same thing. (I''m a teacher and I thought maybe over the summer or something I could do some part time work...) But, I am definitely not ok with high pressure, no info sales! I don''t think I could do it because I do have such a love of quality jewels and knowledge!

 

[Judah Gutwein]

Ira,

Thanks very much for your kind words.
To be honest, I must correct you on one point. We are not a true "B&M Jeweler" as you suspect; or at least not in the way I was indicating.
We do have a showroom where we meet with clients, but we are actually located high off the street and therefore do not completely qualify to be called a (traditional) B&M jewelery store.

When I praised those (traditional) B&M jewelers who offer their clients the "best of both worlds" (ie: high quality diamonds, Internet competitive pricing, and Internet competitive information and data), I was referring to those jewelery stores, who have embraced the Internet and the savvy consumers who shop online and who visit forums such as this.

It really is a magic combination of the "hands on" shopping experience, with the Internet business model when those select traditional B&M's can create a synergy of both worlds.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 12/22/2008 12:00:18 PM
Author:
A stone does not have to have the H&A optical symmetry to be well cut. I agree with others who recommended asking specifically for AGS0 stones (although many mall jewelers do not carry AGS), or taking an idealscope (presuming you are looking at round stones given your search for h&a) with you to evaluate.

For many mall jewelry salespeople, working in a mall jewelry store (esp during the holiday season), is indeed just a job for a paycheck, and not a career choice - some reps will be knowledgeable, others are just punching the clock for a paycheck.

......

Have you ever tried to pimp the cashier at McDonalds on nutrition?

Now THAT is funny!

Wink