AVR (Daisy vs Lotus) vs new AVOMB Old Mine Brilliant

[emmy12]

Looking for help and opinions choosing a stone for my future ER. He prefers round stones, and I have developed a love for the unique character of the chunky flashes of old european cuts.

I guided him to the August Vintage Round (AVR) from Distinctive Gem, and then discovered that Jon recently released his new August Vintage Old Mine Brilliant (AVOMB) cut that also caught our eye. We are trying to use ASET images and his comparison videos to pick which one to purchase, but have run into several questions that I though the lovely PS cut gurus could advise on.

This is the stone that I am hoping to replicate. The lively flashes from the "snowflake" pattern were stunning. It is now sold, but the photos of it can be found here.


Video of the ring here (please watch!)

Pebble & Polish on Instagram: "{SOLD} Perfect snowflake-pattern faceting ❄️ on this 1.4 carat Old Euro diamond! It’s the star of the show in an elegant, understated c. 1920s engraved platinum engagement ring. Recently added to the collection. Tap the

700 likes, 18 comments - pebbleandpolishMarch 9, 2021 on : "{SOLD} Perfect snowflake-pattern faceting ❄️ on this 1.4 carat Old Euro diamond! It’s the star of the show in an elegant, understat..."

www.instagram.com

Whenever I've seen this and other OEC's with lively facets that dance in videos, I always notice that in the straight on photo that they seem to have the black contrast areas
...much like the the Arrows in an ideal cut MRB.

QUESTION 1: Since I know that the arrows of an MRB show up Blue on the ASET (light from straight above) should I also expect to see a similar looking flowery contrast pattern in an OEC that displays similar optics to the one above?


Jon started doing custom cutting on lab stones recently, and is now offering cut choices for those of us so inclined *cough*picky*cough* to have a preference. For the AVR he has two cutting styles: the Daisy (which would not be graded as an OEC) and the (newer??) Lotus that has the cutlet and does qualify as an OEC when graded.

AVR Daisy vs Lotus comparison video

QUESTION 2:
Both of these stones look insanely bright, but seem to lack the playful winking of the facets turning on and off that the inspiration video had. Why is that happening? Is that what I would expect to see in real life, just a bright white light and very little playfulness of the facets? Is this a problem with the video?

This AVR Daisy stone (below) is now sold, but when I looked at the ASET it seemed to lack any of that contrast pattern blue areas. Is this why the stones in the video just look WHITE WHITE WHITE?




By comparison, this AVR Lotus (below) seems to have more contrast patterning, so would it be more similar to the stone in the ring above in terms of playfulness of the facets? (I know the facet pattern is different)



QUESTION 3:
The new cut, AV Old Mine Brilliant (AVOMB) also has a comparison video showing it beside the the AVR and AVC.

This cut DEFINITELY has a contrast pattern, but it doesn't seem to change or turn on and off during the video? Is that fine?

Which of these cuts would you choose to get the most "playful" and similar to the inspiration stone? I don't care about the grading being a true OEC on the paper.

Full disclosure: the SO intends to buy a lab-grown stone, but our questions mostly relate to cut and interpreting ASET images so I chose to post in RockyTalky first. Mods, please move if needed!

 

[foxinsox]

I’d get the Lotus due to that playfulness you mention - the Daisy’s bright bright centre is one of the things I’ve never liked about the AVOEC patterning. But will it have the snowflake pattern you love?

 

[lovedogs]

I think the lotus will be the closest to what you are looking for.

 

[emmy12]

I think the lotus will be the closest to what you are looking for.

I’d get the Lotus due to that playfulness you mention - the Daisy’s bright bright centre is one of the things I’ve never liked about the AVOEC patterning. But will it have the snowflake pattern you love?

What is it that you're basing this on? The video or the ASET?

 

[lulu_ma]

Well, do you want a OEC or an OMC? The AVOMB is has a slightly more cushiony shape. If you want round, I would eliminate that one.

Between the Daisy and the Lotus-it's more of a personal preference. I personally like the Daisy. It has more of the classic petal pattern that I think of in OECs. But both are very pretty. If you want a culet facet, then choose the Lotus. Really I think any of these cuts would be beautiful irl.

 

[lovedogs]

What is it that you're basing this on? The video or the ASET?

The AVOMB is much more of a cushion shape, and doesn't quite have as much of a "flowery" pattern (to my eyes). The lotus cut has more of the floral facet pattern that I think you liked about the original. But it won't be identical to the original, because that was an unusual cut and facet pattern (IMHO).

 

[LLJsmom]

For sure the old version. Daisy you call it. Just a preference thing. I want the big rounded petals.

 

[emmy12]

Thanks all for chiming in. I think my heart says Daisy because it has the more rounded petals and a less prominent cutlet and that's what I've been drawn to in other stones I've seen...
I just feel like the ASET needs a bit more blue for contrast. I was looking at the rival Canera European Rounds (CER) today (gasp!) and saw the following stone and the ASET is what I think I'd want to see from the AVR. Too bad VC isn't doing his signature cuts in lab grown material (at least not as far as I could tell yet...)





Am I crazy, or does this ASET look better than the Daisy one I posted above?

 

[emmy12]

Well, do you want a OEC or an OMC? The AVOMB is has a slightly more cushiony shape. If you want round, I would eliminate that one.

Between the Daisy and the Lotus-it's more of a personal preference. I personally like the Daisy. It has more of the classic petal pattern that I think of in OECs. But both are very pretty. If you want a culet facet, then choose the Lotus. Really I think any of these cuts would be beautiful irl.

Round! Sticking with our original gut feeling. And the bubbly Daisy look has also been more my preference from the start

 

[emmy12]

For completeness and for future forum sleuths looking for more info on the change/evolution of the AVR check out this forum thread, specifically post #29 from @Rhino

Thread 'August Vintage round to Distinctive Gems change in proportions and facet pattern' https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ange-in-proportions-and-facet-pattern.268583/

 

[foxinsox]

What is it that you're basing this on? The video or the ASET?

I'm basing it on the many versions of the Daisy I've seen and not liked as much as the Lotuses but he didn't call them that until recently and it was an aha moment for me when I saw the two styles although the ASET nailed it for me - the bright red centre and no contrast!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I can't exactly tell from those two stones. I LOVE mine! So I am not sure which it is closer to, maybe the Lotus! I would have assumed Daisy, though. Culet size has nothing to do with the facet pattern. You can choose any size culet on either one. I think my ASET is as good as I have ever seen. The Lotus ASET above is the best of the ASETs you posted, IMO.







One thing I would ask for is for the depth to be no greater than 65%, because if you go too deep, your stone's face up (diameter) size will be smaller and look like a lower carat weight diamond.

 

[emmy12]

The thing that I don't love about the Lotus is the extreme amount of kozibe

I can't exactly tell from those two stones. I LOVE mine! So I am not sure which it is closer to, maybe the Lotus! I would have assumed Daisy, though. Culet size has nothing to do with the facet pattern. You can choose any size culet on either one. I think my ASET is as good as I have ever seen. The Lotus ASET above is the best of the ASETs you posted, IMO.







One thing I would ask for is for the depth to be no greater than 65%, because if you go too deep, your stone's face up (diameter) size will be smaller and look like a lower carat weight diamond.

I love your ASET! I think that one looks more like the Daisy (old style) than the new one.... theres so much kozibe effect in the Lotus and around the table it looks like a "connect the dots" effect to me (circled on half the stone) and I don't like it


DS, do you have all the specs for the proportions etc? The BF has been in contact with Jon and I think we are going to get him to custom cut the older pattern and it would be great to have % for him to target from a previous one! Yours was cut by Yoram wasn't it?

 

[molecule]

Could you possibly ask for a smaller culet? I am in agreement with you that that aspect of the lotus cut AVRs has never quite sat right with me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The thing that I don't love about the Lotus is the extreme amount of kozibe

I love your ASET! I think that one looks more like the Daisy (old style) than the new one.... theres so much kozibe effect in the Lotus and around the table it looks like a "connect the dots" effect to me (circled on half the stone) and I don't like it


DS, do you have all the specs for the proportions etc? The BF has been in contact with Jon and I think we are going to get him to custom cut the older pattern and it would be great to have % for him to target from a previous one! Yours was cut by Yoram wasn't it?

I do have the specs and yes, Yoram did cut it! And I highly recommend asking for those proportions if you like it! Note that mine has a "medium" culet, but it is so tiny you really cannot see it. So don't be afraid of the word "medium". The Lotus could also be made with a small to medium culet and not show the Kozibe effect like the one above. Jon likely has the proportions to mine, but here is the AGS report:

 

[emmy12]

I do have the specs and yes, Yoram did cut it! And I highly recommend asking for those proportions if you like it! Note that mine has a "medium" culet, but it is so tiny you really cannot see it. So don't be afraid of the word "medium". The Lotus could also be made with a small to medium culet and not show the Kozibe effect like the one above. Jon likely has the proportions to mine, but here is the AGS report:

Did you ever post videos of your stone on the forum?

 

[molecule]

The thing that I don't love about the Lotus is the extreme amount of kozibe

I love your ASET! I think that one looks more like the Daisy (old style) than the new one.... theres so much kozibe effect in the Lotus and around the table it looks like a "connect the dots" effect to me (circled on half the stone) and I don't like it


DS, do you have all the specs for the proportions etc? The BF has been in contact with Jon and I think we are going to get him to custom cut the older pattern and it would be great to have % for him to target from a previous one! Yours was cut by Yoram wasn't it?

Jon has some varied AVOCs on his website, like this:

Which to me looks like the Lotus without a culet.

2.064ct I VS2 August Vintage European Cut 74763854

Diamond Details Measurements 7.81 - 7.86 x 5.28 Cut Grade Ideal Polish Ideal Symmetry Ideal Fluorescence Negligible Culet Pointed Report Click here to view this diamonds AGS Report. Table 0.5 Depth 0.673

www.distinctivegem.com

 

[Cerulean]

All I can say is, I remember that particular stone. It’s just breathtaking. I was only in the market for a stone shortly thereafter and just kicked myself over and over that I missed that one. It’s a slightly lower color than I would’ve prefer but that snowflake pattern is dreamy and I’ve never forgotten it. It looks like I’m not the only one!

All I can say is, good luck. I agree the CER is the closest match and it’s shame he won’t do lab…

But of rhino’s, I actually really like the AVOMB even tho the shape is quite different, I actually like a pillowy shape personally.

 

[emmy12]

All I can say is, I remember that particular stone. It’s just breathtaking. I was only in the market for a stone shortly thereafter and just kicked myself over and over that I missed that one. It’s a slightly lower color than I would’ve prefer but that snowflake pattern is dreamy and I’ve never forgotten it. It looks like I’m not the only one!

All I can say is, good luck. I agree the CER is the closest match and it’s shame he won’t do lab…

But of rhino’s, I actually really like the AVOMB even tho the shape is quite different, I actually like a pillowy shape personally.

I sent that snowflake ring link and video to my SO, but at the time he was only reading about MRB, so he looked at the colour and clarity and went "but isn't that....bad?" And it was hard to explain to him that in antique stones it's more about the video and seeing the facets and cutting than the colour and clarity stats! I don't think I mind the warmer OECs so it would've been fine to me!

Also yes, definitely a shame that VC isn't doing his CER in lab growns.... Maybe one day!

 

[emmy12]

Update to the DG site: Jon has updated his listings in The Private Reserve section to offer separate listings for the AVR daisy and AVR lotus so it is now easier to order custom cut stones.

 

[Tonks]

If it is helpful to you, I have a pair of Victor’s CERs as studs. They are stunning—great light performance.

These are their ASETs.

 

[Inked]

One of the members is selling their old euro lab diamond on pre-loved, it looks beautiful, maybe worth looking at:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...b-diamond-recut-from-an-igi-g-vs2-mrb.275372/