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Worried

Rough_Rock
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Sep 25, 2008
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7
Just so everyone knows, I am a regular member of this site, I just registered for another name for the sake of being discreet.

So I am coming here, seeking advice on a tricky situation. It involved my closest friend in the world, and completely has me at a loss as to what I should do...

Background Information:

My friend, whom we''ll call L, and I have been bff''s since we were in third grade, and are now in our mid twenties. Our friendship hasn''t always been smooth sailing, but we''re more like sisters--and even if we go for extended periods of time without talking, eventually we make up, and things fall right back into place.

L and I were both raised in a wealthy suburb of a larger city. Our parents were white collar professionals who afforded us every advantage in life. We were very blessed, to say the least. L''s parents divorced when she was young, but both parents went on to remarry...L grew up living with her Mom and Step Dad (whom, BTW, treated her just like she was his own). L also maintained a very strong relationship with her biological Dad, who was everpresent in her life.

L graduated HS with honors and went on to a good college. During her freshman year, L met a guy, R...whom, to say the least, wasn''t what any of us "expected". He grew up in a small town located in Southern part of our state. He had very little education to speak of, and worked at the time at a Country Club bussing tables. But love, is love, is love...and she really cared for this guy immediately.

L''s grades suffered at school due inpart to her budding romance, and she actually missed a final to be with him--and at the very beginning of summer vacation that year, ran away from her parents home to move in with in him in his small town. While everyone was shocked and devasted because this wasn''t the responsible, mature L we all knew, but eventually everyone came around. About that time we all adjusted to fact that L had decided on a different path for herself, R kicked L out of his house. L''s step father drove down in the middle of the night to collect her and bring her home heart broken, to say the least.

L spent several week reeling over the loss of her first love...but eventually began to disclose details of their relationship. Apparently, R had been "carrying on" with a girl in the apartment above them, as well as other girls around town...R had actually had a night terror once and L woke up to R choking her. R, L explained, was very cold to her most of time...and abused their relationship with cheating, and verbal insults often.

Once L was open with what actually happened inside their romance, she seemed to have an easier time moving forward, and by the end of the summer was preparing to return to college (although on academic probation). The R called. Unbenounced to us, R had actually been calling a lot--and making noises about "missing her" and "wanting to come visit". As it would turn out, he did just that...

One night, after having a secret converation for several hours, R got into his car and headed for our little suburb. L snuck out her home, leaving a note she was meeting me for coffee. While in actually, the two love birds shacked up at a Days Inn. L turned off her phone, and two of them holed up in the motel for nearly 2 days.

We were all frantic. No one knew where L was, although we all knew she had been chatting with guys online. We all thought we''d never see again, and she was probably dead in some ditch. We filed a missing persons report...phoned her CC company to look for recent charges, and eventually tracked her and R down.

L''s parents literally dragged her from the motel room...and R fled back to his small town. L ended up, at midnight, taking a cab to the train station and running away once again to R. However, this time, it stuck. Eventually L got pregnant with a little baby girl, and R purposed marriage. The two wed in a small, but sweet wedding ceremony and started, what seemed at the time, like happily ever after.

Shortly after their daughter was born, R picked up a serious addiction to crack cocaine. He actually spent their daughters college fund (which her parents set up) on drugs and went on several serious benders. He eventually mixed the drug with alcohol, and gambling...and soon the young couple were in ruins. L was heartbroken and terrified, they had no money, a small baby, and her husband was a wreck with serious addictions. She saw no other choice but to divorce him. And, she did. However, as bold and brave as that sounds, she did say that if he sought help and got clean, she would remarry him. And, she did that too.

R seemed to have cleaned up his act for a while. He was nicer to be around, finally landed a good job, and they were happily living with his parents to make life easier. L, finished her BA and is currently pursuing her Masters. Their life, for a while, was really good. Their daughter is a slice of heaven and smart...and L adores being a Mom, although both R and L agreed that one child was enough.

Until recently, I though things finally had sorted themselves out. But, R has begun acting up again.

Drinking has always been a sever weakness for R. He becomes very immature, irresponsible, and careless. The weekend of L''s college graduation we all went to a nice hotel to party and celebrate. We hit the bar, danced, had a few drinks, and retired to bed. At some point in the middle of the night, R snuck out of his hotel room and disappeared. He didn''t return until the next morning around 6am--trashed. To this day, no one knows where he went or who he was with (the bar closed at 2am). A few weeks before Christmas, the same year, R gets pulled over and charged with a DUI. Not to mention the countless other little "incidents" he''s subjected his wife and child to.

L, in hopes of saving her marriage, makes R see a doctor ... not a specialist, but their regular family doctor, who diagonises R with bipolar disorder. The prescribe some medication...and L crosses her fingers.

For a few weeks, R straightens himself up and flies right. But slowly, he seeps back into his old ways...drinking, not coming home, blowing her off. But now, he claims these are "manic" episodes. However, his manic episodes somehow only manage to happen on the weekends when he should be spending time with his family
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In accumulated a few weeks back when R disappeared for a few days. Apparently, he took $500.00 from their joint checking account and made the bar rounds and (driving, mind you) also visited several strip clubs. This, was their bill money.

L kicked R out of the house...and R went to stay with his cousins...which is, as discribed to me, a party all the time anyway. L began talking about divorce, but mentioned several times how "ashamed" or "embarrassed" she should be...because she married him twice after all.

Eventually L lets R come home, and hauls him off to couples therapy. I''m all for it...I think its great...but now it''s like nothing he''s done before even matters.

So...

I guess the point of my posting is, what should I do? In my opinion, from what I have observed, this guy is ruining my friend. He is making a fool out of her. I''m all for honoring your vow (sickness and in health), but I think now he just has a crutch for his bad behavior (hence it only happening on the weekends, which I find suspicious).

My friend L is the type of person who hates to hear things she doesn''t want to...so I know if I tell her I think her DH is bad news, she''ll be super mad. But I also feel like a fraud when I encourage her to work on her marriage--when in reality, I hate that she''s being treated this way.

If she left, I''d offered to rent her an apartment, give her money, get her back on her feet...I mean, shes like a sister, I''d do anything for her. But at the same time, I don''t feel like it''s my place to say "leave him now!".

I don''t know what to do...because I can be kind and dishonest...or I can be honest and unkind. Please, kind smart PS ladies, help me!
 

Worried

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
7
Added Thought:

The reason I put all the stuff in about the way L was raised, is to point out that she didn''t come from a home where divorce was bad...and she''s not missing a male figure in her life. Her step father was awesome, and her mom was a strong, educated woman.

Also, I fear for the effect this will eventually have on her daughter. They live in a small town--word gets around.

Just to clarify.

P.S: sorry it was so long, I though having all the info would be helpful.
 

ladypirate

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
4,553
I''m so sorry you''re going through this--watching a friend harm themselves (whether directly or indirectly) is extraordinarily painful. The thing you have to remember is that (as painful as it is, and I know it really is), you can''t control her or make her see that she''s making mistakes. She has to realize that on her own. You can be there for her, be supportive, offer to let her stay with you, etc., but you can''t make her realize that she''s codependent.

One thing you may try is suggesting she go to AlAnon--they may help her realize the behaviors she''s exhibiting in relation to her husband are not healthy and teach her better ways to deal with it.

*Hugs*
 

geckodani

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
9,021
Date: 10/2/2008 11:01:37 AM
Author: ladypirate
I''m so sorry you''re going through this--watching a friend harm themselves (whether directly or indirectly) is extraordinarily painful. The thing you have to remember is that (as painful as it is, and I know it really is), you can''t control her or make her see that she''s making mistakes. She has to realize that on her own. You can be there for her, be supportive, offer to let her stay with you, etc., but you can''t make her realize that she''s codependent.

One thing you may try is suggesting she go to AlAnon--they may help her realize the behaviors she''s exhibiting in relation to her husband are not healthy and teach her better ways to deal with it.

*Hugs*
Ladypirate pegged it. It''s so incredibly hard to watch friends self-destruct like that. But unfortunately all you can really do is try to talk to her.
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((HUGS))
 

dragonfly411

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
7,378
I agree with the al anon and I also thing she needs to see a therapist individually to sort out why she feels she has to stay with him...
 

princesss

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
8,035
Ladypirate nailed it.

I definitely recommend AlAnon meetings. You could go with her if she wants, or just drop her off/pick her up so that she''s in an environment with totally different people (which may be better for her). But I think if I were in the situation you''re in, I''d try to bite my tongue and just keep suggesting AlAnon so that she can get a grasp on the situation from people who have lived it.
 

Circe

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
8,087
To a lesser extent, I''ve been you, and I''ve been your friend: I''ve watched friends get deeply invested in toxic situations, and I''ve spent years weakly defending choices that I *knew* were errors at the time, but that I just couldn''t quite see my way around. It''s all a part of being human.

That said, the thing I appreciated most, and the thing that I try to do myself now, is that my friends were always straight with me while still being supportive: the basic sentiment was always, "I love you and support you, but I don''t like X, and here''s why." Did this, at first, have a little bit of the Romeo-and-Juliet effect, with the course of true love never running smoothly? Sure. But eventually it sank in.

Be honest with your friend. Don''t go from 0 to 60 with an intervention after years of biting your tongue, but encourage her to make the right decisions (starting with AlAnon), and let her know that no one who cares about her is going to judge her. She married him twice? Well, it was conditional on an improvement in his behavior. Now, she can *divorce* him twice.
 

scarleta

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
1,572
This is a sad case and you are obviously such a dear and good friend trying to help out.
You can offer support , but like others said you can''t tell her what to do in her relationship.
Even if she were to take your advice and leave him and stay with you to get back on her feet one day sooner or later she may return to him and sadly you two won''t be friends any longer.( I have been there myself years ago trying to help out a friend she took my advice only to return to him shortly after and we never re-connected after that.
So I would support what others said ( I know you want to help out)don''t offer any advice unless asked for it and just be there to listen to her.She will hopefully make the right decision for herself, but it has to be her decision.
Hope it works out well.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
in all honestly and given the time scope of all this, it would be too much drama for me to watch and be a part of. i''d have to tell her my real feelings and let her know how hard it is to watch her live the life she is living....and that i will be there for her when she decides to make some changes but that at times it is too hard to hear her and i would have to limit my contact in the future.

movie zombie
 

Worried

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
7
Lady Pirate, Geckodani, Dragonfly, Princess, Circe, Scarleta, and Movie Zombie...thank you so much for your advice, I appreicate it.

AlAnon is a great idea...I know R went to AA but I don''t think L ever sought out a support group for herself. The problem is, and I know exactly what she''ll say, she''s to busy. And, she''s probably right. R and L work opposit shifts...she is already at work by 6am and doesn''t leave until 5pm, then she has homework or studying or class for her Masters Degree, and of course caring for her daughter. R works 3-11p so when she''s home with her daughter, it is just all on her. She probably cannot find the time to seek help, even if she wanted too.

L knows she has an open invitation to move into my home or stay with us at any time and on a moments notice as well. It just goes without saying. But living 3+hours away creates a huge problem for that instance...she has job, her school, her daughters school....those are things she needs --she can''t just walk away from those. This is why I would happily rent her an apartment in the location of her choice, furnish it, and pay for it until she was on her feet...but she''s to prideful.

Movie Zombie, it is a lot to watch...and it''s heartbreaking. Sometimes, I just cry thinking about it. She is such a smart girl, she is beautiful and funny and a million other redeeming qualities. I adore her, she IS my family. So even when I know it is to much, and I am physically sick over her latest "situation", I cannot walk away. It might be hard for some people to understand, but we''ve always been there for each other...good, bad, ugly...it has never mattered.

For example, I was in a car accident once years ago, before all this happened... it was really no big deal...but I happened to be on the phone with L at the time. Hearing I was in accident, she dropped everything, hopped in her car, and I swear, got to my location on a major road in 15 minutes--dispite living at least 30 minutes away.

But that''s L...she''s my whenever/whatever friend. So now that it''s her turn to need me--I can''t just say "oh well, I can''t deal, see ya". But I do need to find a way to help her and not just say what she wants to hear...

But again, ladies, thank you...if for nothing else than taking your time to listen.
 

snowflakeluvr

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
359
hi worried,
i am sorry for your worries, but like you, i have been wrestling with a situation of someone(my sister) who appears to be a train-wreck a comin'' and i have NO way to stop the train, so i am in an exact position as you. i went to a Bible study yesterday and the resounding encouragement was to get the heck out of God''s way. i am not trying to insinuate my beliefs on you but i had to hear from others that more or less it has to be this way and i have to relinguish the idea that i can save my sister from her bad/stupid/irresponsible/reckless choices...i love her and want her to have a wonderful, meaningful, special life, BUT she continues to make bad, bad judgements for herself and her child. know that we feel for your position and i can only encourage you to gently tell your friend that she needs help and then the chips will fall where they may(and they''re going to fall) i am working hard at my age(44) to let go of the toxic people in my life. it is VERY difficult if you are a people pleaser and if you have moral beliefs/values that we should help others. sometimes others don''t want our "help"...i''m sorry that you feel this way, i do too and for 24 hours now, i''ve been working on "letting go" and "letting God'' where my sister is involved. i hope things resolve for your friend soon.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
Date: 10/2/2008 2:10:46 PM
Author: Worried

But that''s L...she''s my whenever/whatever friend. So now that it''s her turn to need me--I can''t just say ''oh well, I can''t deal, see ya''. But I do need to find a way to help her and not just say what she wants to hear...
for her sake and for your''s as well its time to be totally 100% honest with her and how you feel about it. and specifically how all this is eatting you up. but be honest with her that you are no longer going to support her bad decisions, that you will listen to her anytime but to preserve your own sanity you must speak up and out. tell her you know this will be hard for her to hear but you are going to be honest because you do lover her. good luck.

movie zombie
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Firstly, she needs to nix the joint checking account. What happens to her daughter if hubby goes on another bender with the bill money?
 

Worried

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
7
Pear, I do believe that did go forward and open her own account after his last vanishing act...but still keeps the one joint one open because of their direct deposit. Otherwise, she felt that every other Friday he''d have tons of cash and lose his mind.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
all you can do is be there when she straitens up.
Until she wakes up and says I don''t need this and can do better there is nothing anyone can do.
 

isaku5

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
3,296
Date: 10/2/2008 7:05:33 PM
Author: strmrdr
all you can do is be there when she straitens up.
Until she wakes up and says I don''t need this and can do better there is nothing anyone can do.
ITA
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Tacori E-ring

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
20,041
You are in a tough position. All you *can* do is be there for her. Hopefully one day she will realize that she deserves someone better. But saying something will only drive them closer and you and your friend apart.
 

VRBeauty

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
11,210
Ditto Al-Anon.

Since you are so close to your friend and so aware of her situation, you might consider attending a few Al-Anon meetings as well. I think you might find it helpful.
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
29,571
Date: 10/2/2008 7:05:33 PM
Author: strmrdr
all you can do is be there when she straitens up.
Until she wakes up and says I don''t need this and can do better there is nothing anyone can do.
Yup. It''s hard watching a friend go down, as in a train wreck. You can lead a horse to water, etc.. I agree Al Anon might be helpful to you. You can only do so much. I hope things turn around for your friend.
 

Aloros

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
947
I''m sure she must have an inkling of how you feel about the situation.

But it''s her decision to make. I think the best thing you can do for her is to be there for her right now. Imposing your opinion on her right now probably won''t have any effect except for her to get angry with you.

On the other hand, I''d definitely let her know that if she wants out, you''re there for her 100% - whatever she needs. Sometimes people get stuck in these situations because they fear how other people will judge them, they fear the extrication process, and they simply don''t know how they''ll get by on the other side.

Good luck, I know it must be a heartbreaking situation for you
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LaraOnline

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
3,365
Excellent replies, as usual, PS rocks!
I'm just wondering what has precipitated your sense of anxiety, right now, Worried?
Is it just the same-old for her ... how has it reached this point of 'need-to-act' for you?

I wholeheartedly agree that it really DOES need to come from her. Except, being the big mouth that I am, I would totally tell her my feelings, in full. If she gets P'd off, and doesn't want to talk to you, so be it.

But she is young, and there is still time to turn her life around COMPLETELY if she acts now. If she waits until her 40s - and plenty of women do wait until then - well, she may not be able to 'remake' her life so completely.

I would urge her to think very deeply about her life. No, I would probably urge her to act. I would tell her my feelings. Then I would give her newspaper cuttings. Then I would send internet linkies that might help her... yep I would annoy her about it, I guess...

However, until the penny drops for her, it's all just a bunch of words.
I have a friend who has a serious eating disorder. I went through a phase doing absolutely everything I could to help her - I was worried sick about her. I contacted community health for advice. I gave her all sorts of information. I even talked to her partner, to see if I could help him in any way. (He of course is also concerned).

She stopped talking to me for about nine months.

I feel I've done my best. I still *heart* her. I'll still help her. We're good friends once more. But I won't nag her anymore, and I won't expect her to change. I also won't worry any more, because I feel I have given her my absolute best in that regard. Her life is her life.

In the meantime, I almost want to print out this story, and give it to my little girl to read, when she reaches legal age. What a story!!! I prefer the Indian idea, of arranged marriage, where expectations are made clear from the start...
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Po10472

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
1,443
Have you ever asked her what she gets from this relationship? Is she truely happy, is her child? Who''s needs are being met here? By staying wtih him and repeatedly forgiving him she is permitting this behaviour and its not going to stop - she needs to put her child and herself first instead of him.

Regardless of his condition, from what you''ve said about his behaviour, he doesn''t give a toss about anyone but himself, is she striving to turn that sentiment around by continuing to support him do you think? Does she realise this? He''s a grown man, he''s in complete control of his actions and it appears his actions are premeditated, he''s lifting the money out of the joint account so that he can party rather than put food in his childs mouth - what a vindictive, selfish b*****d.

She needs to hear this, she may already know in her heart, but she needs to hear it from the people who love and support her and who she can turn to when she finally decides to leave him. However, the problem here is that she has lost herself in him and could be very resentful towards you if you tell her. She may never leave him and that''s something that you''ll need to come to terms with if she stays, but I think it is worth the risk because there is a wee innocent person in the middle of their relationship that deserves a happy mummy and a safe home environment.

Talk to her.
 
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