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ASET's are in!!!

F

focusr3

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
64
I got my ASET images tonight and i"m not an expert. But i think i know which one is the best performer from what i have read. In no order.
http://www.jamesallen.com/#%21/loose-diamonds/Cushion-cut/1.03-carat-I-color-VVS2-clarity-sku-26163

http://www.jamesallen.com/#%21/loose-diamonds/Cushion-cut/1.08-carat-I-color-VS1-clarity-sku-155847

http://www.jamesallen.com/#%21/loose-diamonds/Cushion-cut/1.01-carat-I-color-VS1-clarity-sku-202579

There is a slight darkness under that table according to the gemologist on the 1.01. I don't see it im the images but she has the stone in hand so i guess i take her word on that.

_4605.jpg

_4606.jpg

_4607.jpg
 
Don't like any of them, but if I had to pick it'd be #1.

It's not just Red = good, green = okay, black = bad - it's also really important to see how those colours are distributed. When you've got a very clear, static pattern of red/green/black like you do in all of those stones (under the edge of the table), you're going to see that pattern IRL as a ring of dull "mushiness" - a lazy area of stone that doesn't light up, in which facets don't turn on and off as you rock the stone...

I'd personally keep looking for a stone with a more even distribution of patterning and light return.
 
Yssie|1363743473|3409161 said:
Don't like any of them, but if I had to pick it'd be #1.

It's not just Red = good, green = okay, black = bad - it's also really important to see how those colours are distributed. When you've got a very clear, static pattern of red/green/black like you do in all of those stones (under the edge of the table), you're going to see that pattern IRL as a ring of dull "mushiness" - a lazy area of stone that doesn't light up, in which facets don't turn on and off as you rock the stone...

I'd personally keep looking for a stone with a more even distribution of patterning and light return.
Click to expand...
I agree that all 3 are going to be "mushy" under the table around the edges of the table.
I would pick 2 as the best of the lot however.
None are what I would consider to be the best.
 
i would agree with yssie on none of the 3 stones being absolutely fantastic looking. i personally don't like asets in black backgrounds which eliminates the blue color. more often than not, the blue color (for contrast) shows up as red which can be misleading. for the first stone, the red area actually looks dark in the video. seems more like a diamond with a dark center due to contrast.
 
I guess i picked 3 duds. I was really thinking #2 was a good ASET from what i thought i had learned. Well i guess i have to find a different place to look because JA will only do 3 ASET images. I am really disapointed now.
 
I haven't disregarded that stone but i was trying to find something cheaper that still had good performance. So are these all below average or just not great? Also is there a reason there is no blue are there different ASET's?
 
I'm curious about the ASET pictures on a black background.
Most of the ASET pictures I see uses a white background.

The purpose of the ASET is to see the different "grades" of light leakages, where green means a weak light return.
A full light leakage would normally be white in color. If the background is black, I assume the full light leakage would be black in color.

It's much easier to see the whiteness than the blackness.
In the areas that have partial green and black, it looks fine because it looks like a "dark green".
However, in actual fact, the area has more light leakages and would appear a faint green when using a transparent background.
 
Here are the notes from JA.
I am sure that you will be very excited to see them! With ASET images, you want to see a lot of red (this is your direct light return) and green (this is the indirect light return) and very little black (that represents light leakage).

I understand that this is a large purchase, so I had the gemologist compare these diamonds and give us some feedback. As you would expect after viewing the ASET images, the 1.08 carat-I-VS1 (diamond 155847) to have the best light performance that is very well balanced throughout the entire diamond. She also said that it has a nice square cushion shape. The 1.03 carat-I-VVS2 (diamond 26163) also has great light performance that is very balanced throughout the diamond and it also has a ton of fire and brilliance. She preferred this diamond due to its nice rectangular cushion outline. The 1.01 carat-I-VS1 (diamond 202579) has good light performance like the other two, however, there is a slight darkness under that table. All three diamonds have a nice white color and face up completely eye clean!
 
JulieN|1363760883|3409367 said:
It is normal for many fancies to not have blue in ASET, their weak contrast comes from leakage.

For size and price, I like these:
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.02-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-165099
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-35752
Click to expand...
I like the 1.03/1.08 i picked the best from the photo on JA but now I have the ASET images everyone says that all of them are duds. I can't get anymore ASET images from JA they only do 3 so i would be worried to purchese a stone without one now.
 
I am looking for a square shape.
 
ariel144 said:
This one is a cushion brilliant and the ASET was really nice. Will look for the ASET and gemologist's comments on another thread, but I know he said that the feather could not be seen by the naked eye. But it by far my fav. cut and ASET in a 1c cushion.

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.01-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-30101
Click to expand...

I find it somewhat out of the norm you keep pushing a 62% rectangular cushion (LW=1.17) with a big ol bowtie down the middle.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...e-cushion.185565/page-3#post-3387559#p3387559

I've never been very happy with JA's ASET images, they hide the Blue even if its there. The blue can look red or black in their images which really removes crucial information on which areas will be dark in the faceup view.
 
So the question is would you buy a cushion without an ASET. I only ask because they will not due anymore ASET for me
 
focusr3|1363790870|3409532 said:
JulieN|1363760883|3409367 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.02-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-165099
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-35752
Click to expand...
I like the 1.03/1.08 i picked the best from the photo on JA but now I have the ASET images everyone says that all of them are duds. I can't get anymore ASET images from JA they only do 3 so i would be worried to purchese a stone without one now.
Click to expand...
I looked at over 600 stones for you last night There were a lot of good ones around $5000, but I know you said you wanted to stay closer to $4000, and these two had the best value for the price.

You don't need anymore ASETs. The 1.08 you picked is ok, but it faces up small.

Just ask JA which one they recommend out of the two I picked.
 
MrSpencer said:
I'm curious about the ASET pictures on a black background.
Most of the ASET pictures I see uses a white background.

The purpose of the ASET is to see the different "grades" of light leakages, where green means a weak light return.
A full light leakage would normally be white in color. If the background is black, I assume the full light leakage would be black in color.

It's much easier to see the whiteness than the blackness.
In the areas that have partial green and black, it looks fine because it looks like a "dark green".
However, in actual fact, the area has more light leakages and would appear a faint green when using a transparent background.
Click to expand...

You are correct! JAs images have never been very good for discerning fine details. These images just make every cushion look OK and hide leakage and head shadow.

There is head shadow(blue) in these stones but the image obscures it, blue is shown as red or black in these images.
Their ASET photography setup is nowhere near what WF or GOG have done with their custom setup.

I see PS opinions on ASET interpretation all over the place, cushions with thick edges completely green/black being called good then these three being rejected even though they are much better than the usual cushions from JA. ASET interpretation of late on JAs images has become a lot more subjective and much less consistent (perhaps due to images that are misleading).

If I was a new buyer I'd be very confused by the information being given in these threads lately. The standards are all over the place and some people seem to have no standard at all, everything is "good life performance". I've even seen cushions described by a JA sales rep as "excellent light performance" when it had very little red at all in the ASET.
 
JulieN said:
It is normal for many fancies to not have blue in ASET, their weak contrast comes from leakage.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that it was normal. It is normal if:

A) You are looking at stones that are mediocre or worse cut quality.
B) You are looking at images that are mediocre or worse image quality.

Browse WF or GOG inventories on cushions I doubt you will find too many stones with 0 blue in them, that includes good and poorly cut stones.
 
ariel144|1363795838|3409602 said:
focusr3|1363795227|3409592 said:
I am looking for a square shape.
Click to expand...

This F is square and cheaper...faces up smaller but I really like the faceting. A little mush under the table...but Can't see the inclusions...really interesting for an I1; love the Kozibe effect.



Ok, experts, I can't see the inclusions on this I1! $3,300.
Nice stone for the price, would like to see the ASET

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.00-carat-f-color-i1-clarity-sku-203921
Click to expand...

I LOVE I1's like this!!! Good find Ariel!! It's noticeable, but hardly!

Focusr3, I'd put this on hold ASAP because on the chance that the aset comes out great, no one else can take it because the price is phenomenal!

Edit to add that I'd also make sure that the inclusion isn't detrimental to the construction of the stone. If the gemologist clears it, then I'd snatch it up faster than you can blink!
 
mashon|1363801966|3409693 said:
JulieN said:
It is normal for many fancies to not have blue in ASET, their weak contrast comes from leakage.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that it was normal. It is normal if:

A) You are looking at stones that are mediocre or worse cut quality.
B) You are looking at images that are mediocre or worse image quality.

Browse WF or GOG inventories on cushions I doubt you will find too many stones with 0 blue in them, that includes good and poorly cut stones.
Click to expand...

A) it depends on the style of cushion, has nothing to do with cut quality. Contrasty stones like Brellia have lots of blue. If you want more tiny sparkles, no blue.
B) I can find cushions on GOG with no blue that have lifetime guarantee and are absolutely fabulous. One of them was posted above.
 
Mashon thanks for saying what i have been think but i didn't want to say. I have compared these images to other images from JA and although you won't find 2 ASET the same these where close to what people said look really good.

JulieN thank you for all your hard work although i'm sure you also had a good time looking at all those cushions.lol

Also a big thanks for everyones input.

So now only looking at the 1.03 faces up larger and 1.08 i love the look in the JA video. Please help :confused:
Also are they bad,average,good I know they are not the BEST out there but how would you rate them.
 
JulieN said:
A) it depends on the style of cushion, has nothing to do with cut quality. Contrasty stones like Brellia have lots of blue. If you want more tiny sparkles, no blue.
Click to expand...

No I would have to disagree with that statement. In all styles of cushions some blue is normal and expected. Contrast from head shadow is also expected in fancy shapes and does not just manifest itself in hearts and arrows makes.

When cutting fancy colored diamonds (these methods are not preferred when cutting colorless diamonds as the goal is opposite) cutters plan and develop strategies for removing the blue as much as possible to get as even and saturated color as possible. Contrast is the enemy to even color saturation in fancy colored diamonds. But even with highly advanced and assymetrical cutting methods it is extremely difficult if not impossible for them to completely remove small areas of contrast/darkness due to head shadow(ASET blue).
(See diamond research forum Garry H posts for examples)

B) I can find cushions on GOG with no blue that have lifetime guarantee and are absolutely fabulous. One of them was posted above.
Click to expand...

Your attention to detail is a little bit lacking, there is blue in the stone posted above from GOG, small areas but still present.

I would bet they exist but likely only in flat top crown type stones with very large tables.

The main point i was making is we are just not able to resolve the blue in JA's images it does exist but their image color contrast and sharpness is too poor to discern it. Compare this with GOG backlit images where blue will never be confused with leakage(white).
 
There is so little blue in many well cut cushions, that it really does not matter if it is difficult to discern in a black background ASET, it is simply a non-issue. An absence of blue does not indicate a poorly cut cushion.

54% Table and knowing the way he likes to cut them, 20% CH on this would not be out of the ordinary
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9296/
 
mashon|1363804109|3409714 said:
JulieN said:
A) it depends on the style of cushion, has nothing to do with cut quality. Contrasty stones like Brellia have lots of blue. If you want more tiny sparkles, no blue.
Click to expand...

No I would have to disagree with that statement. In all styles of cushions some blue is normal and expected. Contrast from head shadow is also expected in fancy shapes and does not just manifest itself in hearts and arrows makes.

When cutting fancy colored diamonds (these methods are not preferred when cutting colorless diamonds as the goal is opposite) cutters plan and develop strategies for removing the blue as much as possible to get as even and saturated color as possible. Contrast is the enemy to even color saturation in fancy colored diamonds. But even with highly advanced and assymetrical cutting methods it is extremely difficult if not impossible for them to completely remove small areas of contrast/darkness due to head shadow(ASET blue).
(See diamond research forum Garry H posts for examples)

B) I can find cushions on GOG with no blue that have lifetime guarantee and are absolutely fabulous. One of them was posted above.
Click to expand...

Your attention to detail is a little bit lacking, there is blue in the stone posted above from GOG, small areas but still present.

I would bet they exist but likely only in flat top crown type stones with very large tables.

The main point i was making is we are just not able to resolve the blue in JA's images it does exist but their image color contrast and sharpness is too poor to discern it. Compare this with GOG backlit images where blue will never be confused with leakage(white).
Click to expand...

Apparently, people still have difficulty understanding what you are saying despite you making it clear. In GOGs ASET for example, the blues are always clear to view if they are there. It isn't a matter of whether the blue is required for a great cut. That is a different topic all together.
 
mashon|1363801327|3409680 said:
MrSpencer said:
I'm curious about the ASET pictures on a black background.
Most of the ASET pictures I see uses a white background.

The purpose of the ASET is to see the different "grades" of light leakages, where green means a weak light return.
A full light leakage would normally be white in color. If the background is black, I assume the full light leakage would be black in color.

It's much easier to see the whiteness than the blackness.
In the areas that have partial green and black, it looks fine because it looks like a "dark green".
However, in actual fact, the area has more light leakages and would appear a faint green when using a transparent background.
Click to expand...

You are correct! JAs images have never been very good for discerning fine details. These images just make every cushion look OK and hide leakage and head shadow.

There is head shadow(blue) in these stones but the image obscures it, blue is shown as red or black in these images.
Their ASET photography setup is nowhere near what WF or GOG have done with their custom setup.

I see PS opinions on ASET interpretation all over the place, cushions with thick edges completely green/black being called good then these three being rejected even though they are much better than the usual cushions from JA. ASET interpretation of late on JAs images has become a lot more subjective and much less consistent (perhaps due to images that are misleading).

If I was a new buyer I'd be very confused by the information being given in these threads lately. The standards are all over the place and some people seem to have no standard at all, everything is "good life performance". I've even seen cushions described by a JA sales rep as "excellent light performance" when it had very little red at all in the ASET.
Click to expand...

yep. that much is clear even for the round diamonds. the thing to note is that most PSers here don't usually know any better than the OP themselves most of the time. After all, you are in a consumer forum, not an expert's forum. Thread starters should take opinions at their own risk.
 
Apparently, people still have difficulty understanding what you are saying despite you making it clear. In GOGs ASET for example, the blues are always clear to view if they are there. It isn't a matter of whether the blue is required for a great cut. That is a different topic all together.
Click to expand...

Thank-you someone got it.

Well here is one JamesAllen ASET that seems to be a "good" stone. I am not so sure I would suggest it let alone propose it.
Really can't tell from the ASET, but what I can tell is that there should be a lot more blue than I see in this image especially where I circled.
Way too shallow for LW=1.7 not to have obstruction across the shorter side.

notenoughblue.jpg
 
mashon|1363838122|3410113 said:
Apparently, people still have difficulty understanding what you are saying despite you making it clear. In GOGs ASET for example, the blues are always clear to view if they are there. It isn't a matter of whether the blue is required for a great cut. That is a different topic all together.
Click to expand...

Thank-you someone got it.

Well here is one JamesAllen ASET that seems to be a "good" stone. I am not so sure I would suggest it let alone propose it.
Really can't tell from the ASET, but what I can tell is that there should be a lot more blue than I see in this image especially where I circled.
Way too shallow for LW=1.7 not to have obstruction across the shorter side.
Click to expand...


I'm glad we are on the same line. That's what i had been saying in the earlier posts on misleading reds. to the inexperienced, most people on this board will say that this is a great stone. "Wow, there's so much red."

Well, my bet on this is that it will look overly dark due to heavy contrast. The reds should show up in blue in a normal white background ASET but they don't on a black background ASET.
 
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