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ASET for Royal Asscher?

Dr_Diesel

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So far, I like the photos I’ve seen or Royal Asschers, but have yet to see one in person.

Sourcing them is a bit of a fuss, so before so take the plunge, I’m wondering how they behave in terms of real-world light performance.

Does anyone happen to know of an ASET image out there or perhaps aN AGSL report with light performance grading?

Strmrdr AKA Karl_K and DiaGem, I know you have opinions on RA’s but may be limited in what you can say. If you could shed some kind of light on the topic, it would be greatly appreciated!

For reference, I’ll include 2 candidates. One is a RA that I’ve not seen in person. The other is a GOG signature Asscher (with an ASET image). The more octagonal one is from GOG.

The GOG Asscher performs very well but is a bit odd. It’s extremely bright & dispersive, Symmetry and light performance are Ideal per the AGL cert and the meet points all look perfect, but it shows oddly asymmetric contrast patterns under the table. Seemingly random facets go bright and dark at different angles and different conditions.

Thoughts, anyone?

7E562B9E-F278-4891-9CDC-708681E35936.jpeg A4015CCF-3535-41EE-B2CA-ED638D72A29E.jpeg View attachment 727531
 

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Jimmianne

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Pretty stone! I am also quite a fan of Diagem’s cutting, as you can see from my avatar =)2
 

AV_

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The ASET of the octagon shows a perfectly symmetrical pattern - I would take its word for it, unless the image is generated rather than a photo. Otherwise, it may still be the case that the flickering of steps in the pictures and videos are due to the alighnment of the stone to the camera [not arranged to demonstrate the perfect pattern of reflections, but lively movement thereof - brilliance]. This is one for @Rhino to clarify.

I strongly prefer the octagon.
 
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AV_

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Nothing on this list? WWW It is teeming with brilliant step cuts!
 

Karl_K

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Talk about using ASET to make a nasty asscher lol!
Not suprising it looks off in person.
 

OoohShiny

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Talk about using ASET to make a nasty asscher lol!
Not suprising it looks off in person.
Now don't beat about the bush, Karl... ;-) :lol:


I've not seen either in person but I think I prefer the look of the RA - I think I like a consistent faceting style across a stone, rather than faceting that is quite different in different zones, but then personal taste is just that :)
 

Dr_Diesel

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Pretty stone! I am also quite a fan of Diagem’s cutting, as you can see from my avatar =)2
Hi Jimmieanne

I take it you are referring to the GOG Asscher? I’m pretty sure DiaGem did cut that one. What am I seeing on your Avatar? Can’t quite make it out
 

Dr_Diesel

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The ASET of the octagon shows a perfectly symmetrical pattern - I would take its word for it, unless the image is generated rather than a photo. Otherwise, it may still be the case that the flickering of steps in the pictures and videos are due to the alighnment of the stone to the camera [not arranged to demonstrate the perfect pattern of reflections, but lively movement thereof - brilliance]. This is one for @Rhino to clarify.

I strongly prefer the octagon.
Thank you AV_

That helps me put together what I’m seeing visually. In diffuse lighting, it may be the brightest diamond Ive ever seen - and one of the most dispersive.

And yes, the interior is always moving. Along the same lines, the scintillation and dispersion are also VERY lively.

The movement & shifting pattern certainly make it interesting, though it is a little odd to not perceive consistent symmetry. I’ve never really seen that in a diamond before.

I would love to hear @Rhino chime in!
 
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Karl_K

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Karl_K, can you explain? I’m not sure I follow what you’re getting at.
red and blue == good is ASET theory, patterns are not even considered.
Problem is in step cuts the angles for the center facets on a 3 row pavilion that look great in ASET is also one that does not work in well in the real world.
Everything is either one and off and there is no play of light across the stone. Its more like a large room turning the light on and off.
Same for 4 raw pavilions where a row is at that angle.

Then the windmills are reversed with solid obstruction.
They should be bright and lead you into the depths of the stone.
Instead it will look like a solid dark X under the table at times and funky at others.

All those things ASET says is great but in the real world suck when combined in this way.

I highly doubt Yoram cut it, its not his style and he would have caught the problems.
Edit: If he did cut it it was under contract, cut this to my numbers type deal.

edit2: I have been saying for many years someone could design a bad asscher using ASET theory, I just never thought someone would actually do it.
 
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AV_

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To me, the stone is symmetrical - if possibly with perfect four- not eight fold symmetry [still an Asscher, if very, very close to an octagon]. This does show in the ASET. IMHO, the complication adds to brilliance.

This is a treat .)
 

Karl_K

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none of them are lighting that makes the issue stand out but watching under the table area you can see it.
 

Dr_Diesel

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To me, you have to see asschers in person.

ETA: curious how large they are.
The RA is about 1.5, the octagon is about 1.25.

Both colorless & loupe clean.

BTW, nobody really responded to the RA questions about performance.

I have a video. Symmetry seems good though looks a little “glassy” and not particularly brilliant to me - and it seems like you can see through the stone to the tweezers in some areas

 

AV_

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I see the same in the RA & inasmuch dismissed it.
 

Dr_Diesel

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none of them are lighting that makes the issue stand out but watching under the table area you can see it.
@Karl_K

Here are a couple of videos that highlight the issue you are referring to:



On a related note, can you speak to the light performance you’ve seen in RA cuts?
 

Dr_Diesel

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I’m also curious about a sense I’ve gotten on PS: Folks seem to shy away from saying much on Royal Asschers.

The comments I’ve seen have all been rather brief and vague.

Similarly, while there are lots of RAs out there, I’ve never seen any ASET images or AGSL Light Performance reports on one.

Dbof used to post GemEx reports years ago, but all of it seems to have been deleted from the web.

Any thoughts on why that is?

Is the topic something of a taboo?
 

whitewave

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Talk to me about the idea of the asscher. Asscher owner to want to be asscher owner.

What is the intended purpose of this stone?

Have you seen this size in person? It is horribly disappointing in face up size.

I didn’t care for either that you posted.

I think many of us would love to own a Royal Asscher but I personally don’t consider them superior to a generic asscher. Mine has a large table and flat ish crown and it’s performance is amazing and for me, when I get drawn down into its soul, it just does it for me.

So it becomes, how many asschers do you want to own? I also have an asscher cut chivor emerald. Two is enough for me.

So the brand Royal asscher has nothing to do with anything in my opinion. Not many of us have seen one and I just saw my first Octavia this month. The first asscher I ever saw was the one I bought, as no store in my area carried them or would order me one.

My understanding is Asets aren’t the end all be all for asschers. You still have to see them in person. They have individual personalities and flavors.
 

Karl_K

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RA; some are stunning and some are just ok. Havent seen a really bad one that was an actual RA. They are rare and a lot of people dont know a lot about them.

They are also in the same market I am(premium branded asscher cuts) so I am hesitant to discuss them here.
 
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Dr_Diesel

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Talk to me about the idea of the asscher. Asscher owner to want to be asscher owner.

What is the intended purpose of this stone?

Have you seen this size in person? It is horribly disappointing in face up size.

I didn’t care for either that you posted.

I think many of us would love to own a Royal Asscher but I personally don’t consider them superior to a generic asscher. Mine has a large table and flat ish crown and it’s performance is amazing and for me, when I get drawn down into its soul, it just does it for me.

So it becomes, how many asschers do you want to own? I also have an asscher cut chivor emerald. Two is enough for me.

So the brand Royal asscher has nothing to do with anything in my opinion. Not many of us have seen one and I just saw my first Octavia this month. The first asscher I ever saw was the one I bought, as no store in my area carried them or would order me one.

My understanding is Asets aren’t the end all be all for asschers. You still have to see them in person. They have individual personalities and flavors.
@whitewave

The Asscher is for an engagement ring. My girlfriend is a designer and has something of an "engineering brain." She likes hard lines, geometric shapes and has her heart set on an Asscher, though hasn't seen many in person.

She also likes unique pieces, which the octagnal stone certainly is.

It performs well in almost all lighting, is very bright and dispersive, but the oddity of the way the facets in the center light up do something a little confusing to the brain.

It certainly makes it lively and perpetually interesting. It's never the same from one moment to the next. This very quality invites you to play with it, but you never really get the satisfaction of being fully drawn down into its center or any kind of stable visual appearance. It's always moving. The same quality that makes it interesting also makes it a little frustrating.

It is certainly a bright, lively, interesting stone, but it does not imbue the viewer with a sense of harmony.

I really like it in many ways. It outperforms almost every other stone I've seen in terms of overall brightness, scintillation and dispersion. It's exceptionally lively. Overall I love it in every way EXCEPT that oddity about the inconsistency and odd patterning which happens under the table.

I will say however that it is much more impressive in person than in the photos or videos. I have a friend who is a jewelry designer who didn't like it in photos but loved it in person. I don't think she had enough time with it in different lighting conditions to really experience the more frustrating/discordant dimension of its personality.

It is bright, lively, interesting, and exciting, however it does not imbue the viewer a sense of harmony...which is why I am questioning it for use in an engagement ring.
 
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AV_

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There is no need to fight through frustration in this.

The GemConcepts stones are made perfectly, and clear patterns of reflections are the pride of the house [there are too many mentions of them on this thread already, but it is inevitable - you are wishing for what they do so obviously]. Their other squares are more unusual than Asschers, if any suitable stone exists or can be made in time www [how they compare with an asscher? - they pair www www www www etc.]


over & out
 
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OoohShiny

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Hi Jimmieanne

I take it you are referring to the GOG Asscher? I’m pretty sure DiaGem did cut that one. What am I seeing on your Avatar? Can’t quite make it out
This is @Jimmianne's diagem/Yoram asscher:


You can see it is very lively in the videos!

You can also see the areas of leakage present at tilt angles in the tilt-ASET images:


It's my understanding that leakage is not necessarily always bad if it is incorporated into the facet design, like this, so the RA may well be just fine :)

I'm not sure if anyone has seen a Yoram asscher side-by-side with an RA but, to my eyes (looking at the videos), they seem to be similar in 'flavour' - strong 'architectural' faceting that is neither too 'chunky' or too 'slim', with a lively performance that balances contrast and brightness nicely across the stone at a range of tilt angles. (IMO!)
 
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Dr_Diesel

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There is no need to fight through frustration in this.

The GemConcepts stones are made perfectly, and clear patterns of reflections are the pride of the house [there are too many mentions of them on this thread already, but it is inevitable - you are wishing for what they do so obviously]. Their other squares are more unusual than Asschers, if any suitable stone exists or can be made in time www [how they compare with an asscher? - they pair www www www www etc.]


over & out
@AV_

Thank you! Yes, you hit the nail on the head.
 
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whitewave

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You are the only one who can decide if you love the coy look of this one, or if the disharmony will bother you over time.
 

Jimmianne

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Hi Jimmieanne

I take it you are referring to the GOG Asscher? I’m pretty sure DiaGem did cut that one. What am I seeing on your Avatar? Can’t quite make it out
Hi.
I was not specifically referring to the GOG stone, just that I have a “thing” for the way Diagem cuts. Perhaps of interest,
a comparison of the Diagem “antique-y asscher cut” in my avatar vs. a well-cut generic asscher. [not a great photo, but does express the difference between the way the two cuts play with light]. 605542
 

Rhino

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You're too funny Karl. Just a note before I comment. Since I am no longer at GOG I have no vested interest in what I'm about to write concerning the Asscher they have there which I oversaw.

Karl ... your first mistake is assuming that this ASET image is going to translate into the dark "x" you're seeing in the ASET.

asscheroptics2.JPG

If that "X" actually translated to an over darkness you'd have hit the nail on the head however, as we both know "blue" in fancy shapes via ASET doesn't always translate to what we see in real world optics. We agree on that part. What it does translate to however is a perfectly beautiful diamond and those areas light up just fine. You can see it clearly in the videos. Ie. no dark X but instead, illumination.

asscheroptics.JPG

The diamond is backed with full refund/exchange and IMHO the op would be doing himself a disservice if he didn't lay eyes on it alongside of any other asscher they're considering.

Peace,
Rhino
 

Dr_Diesel

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You're too funny Karl. Just a note before I comment. Since I am no longer at GOG I have no vested interest in what I'm about to write concerning the Asscher they have there which I oversaw.

Karl ... your first mistake is assuming that this ASET image is going to translate into the dark "x" you're seeing in the ASET.

asscheroptics2.JPG

If that "X" actually translated to an over darkness you'd have hit the nail on the head however, as we both know "blue" in fancy shapes via ASET doesn't always translate to what we see in real world optics. We agree on that part. What it does translate to however is a perfectly beautiful diamond and those areas light up just fine. You can see it clearly in the videos. Ie. no dark X but instead, illumination.

asscheroptics.JPG

The diamond is backed with full refund/exchange and IMHO the op would be doing himself a disservice if he didn't lay eyes on it alongside of any other asscher they're considering.

Peace,
Rhino
Thank You Rhino!
 

Dr_Diesel

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UPDATE!

So, I wound up keeping the GOG signature Asscher after numerous side-by-side comparisons to other step cut diamonds.

There’s something truly unique and visceral about the stone. It is literally brighter than anything that I’ve ever seen before. It has an incredible glow to it even in low light situations. The scintillation and dispersion are off the charts. All the meet points are done with incredible precision.

Finally let my girlfriend in on this to make the final decision and she was blown away. Tears came to her eyes. While tastes may vary, for her, it’s utter perfection.

We even compared it side-by-side with an Octavia that was 0.2 carats larger. While I appreciate the technical perfection of the Octavia - and it is extremely photogenic - at an emotional level, it did very little for either of us. I don’t know that one is significantly brighter or more dispersive than the other.

As far as the oddities I noted in previous posts, they’re an artifact that only shows up when you have a macro lens less than an inch away. In every other environment, it’s absolutely spectacular. Sometimes it’s hard to capture what the eye sees with a camera. I’ve seen several diamonds which look spectacular in photos but are unimpressive in person. This one is the opposite.

It’s very interesting. When I was asking people for their opinions and showed them photos, nobody really liked it - including my girlfriend and one of her friends who designs jewelry.

On the other hand, when I unveil it in person however, everyone who has laid eyes on it was utterly blown away - including several custom jewelry designers who handle a lot of high-end stones. Nobody has seen anything like it before… and sometimes it’s rather difficult to pry it back out of their hands!

This rock is definitely an interesting little creature with the personality of its own! It’s defiant of the camera but really expresses itself in person!

And to the point made by @Rhino , the ASET image doesn’t tell the whole story. This rock is ANYTHING BUT the “nasty Asscher” suggested in a previous post!
i’m attaching a couple of reasonably good photos & a video which are slightly better representations of what the diamond looks like in person - but for whatever reason, it just cannot be captured with a camera lens (and I have many years of experience in the trade photographing very tricky colored gems).

Also, the engagement ring is in the final phases with Bliss Lau (who is absolutely in love with the stone as well), and I will be post photos when the ring is complete!

Bliss, by the way, is nothing short of amazing. Not only are her designs done with exceptional thought and care, she has an uncanny ability to tune in to a couple and their story and craft a pieces fits perfectly, capturing and expressing something incredibly essential.

She is warm, understanding, deep and holds considerable wisdom that I think really shows up in her design work.

... and David at Good Old Gold really made everything about this incredibly easy. His knowledge, kindness, and understanding are like nobody else I’ve met in the diamond business.I cannot speak highly enough of him.

So, a big thank you to David and everyone at Good Old Gold, to Bliss Lau, and to Rhino. None of this would’ve been possible without you guys!

BF50B39B-CF7F-4207-85E4-4DB082EA2B00.jpeg

 

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Dr_Diesel

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...I would also like to add that my girlfriend is a designer herself. She’s not easily impressed, and choosing a diamond as well as designing a piece of jewelry for her is nothing less than intimidating! And yet, this diamond left her speechless.

I only hope she has the same reaction to the ring when she sees it!
 
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