Are these too good to be true?

[jcizl1986]

Both have perfect proportions and are SI1. but despite the lowish clarity grade they both have very few inclusions on the GIA diagram and the james allen one even has no “Additional comments” in the GIA cert they sent me.
Here are links to both the diamonds:

1.00 Carat round diamond

This 1 carat round diamond F color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

GIA - Report Check

www.gia.edu

Worried they are both too good to be true. Around $4900 leve excluding tax which will be 23% for us Irish

 

[flyingpig]

Edit. The report says G color and faint fluorescent and the listing is F color and medium fluo. It does not look like a F.

 

[jcizl1986]

Edit. The report says G color and faint fluorescent and the listing is F color and medium fluo. It does not look like a F.

Thanks the report is a different diamond, not from James Allen.

 

[jcizl1986]

Edit. The report says G color and faint fluorescent and the listing is F color and medium fluo. It does not look like a F.

James Allen one has Table % of 55
Pavillion angle 40.6
Crown angle 34
Depth ratio 61.4
Crown 15%
lgh 75%

My concern was more with the clarity in both of these diamonds, not the cut. The Clarity diagrams are practically empty in both reports but they get SI1 grades. There must be something up with their clarity to get a grade that low? The James Allen diamond has no additional comments in the gia report to explain the clarity. The other diamond just mentions surface and internal graining

 

[jcizl1986]

Here is the gia report for the james allen diamond.

 

[sledge]

Keep in mind clarity grading is also dependent on severity of the listed inclusions, not just the quantity. Both stones have feathers (small cracks) as grade setting inclusions. You'd want to make sure the stones are actually eye clean as feathers can sometimes be detectable. Also, as they near the edge, they can pose more of a risk than in the middle of the body.

In regards to the JA stone, you can see in the video the arrows are super fat. I am a fan of fat arrows, but to me this over powers the stone and is also creating some paddle effects on the arrow heads. Given the angle combo of 34/40.6 I suspect obstruction is at play, but this could also be bad videography.

FYI, both stones have reported 75 LGF values. But with the GIA reports and rounds, the actual values could range from 73-77. I would veer to say the LGF's of the JA stone is closer to 73 as the lower the number, the fatter the arrows.

Also, IMO, any stone with medium+ levels of fluor need to be inspected carefully to ensure there are no negative effects of fluor (hazy/milky/cloudy look) when in various lighting conditions.

Edited to Add:
Lastly, please note the symmetry on both stones is only very good, as opposed to excellent.

 

[lovedogs]

I can't see the JA stone, unfortunately. The link doesn't work. But with only 1 inclusion, I would be worried about a feather if it's an SI1. And one of them has internal graining, which sometimes is a problem.

 

[lovedogs]

Also do you have any images of the other stone (the not ja one)?

 

[flyingpig]

I would reject the G. It has surface and internal graining, which may affect transparency. It is not alway a issue. But since you are importing the stone, you just want to be extra cautious.

Taking about the F, there is a big feather on the pavilion side. It is visible between 3 and 4 o clock arrowheads. It is something you only notice when you actually look for it. It is well hidden.

I think this might be it if you are looking for a 1.0c colorless diamond under 5.0k USD as long as you are ok with the contrast look and imperfection in symmetry and potentially minor leakage at 3 o clock.

 

[mission1]

I’m UK based and have recently gone through the same process. Have you looked at Blue Nile? If you decide to return a diamond, they’ve got a presence in Dublin.

To answer your question, it’s perfectly possible to get an eyeclean SI1, with GIA triple excellent cut/symmetry/polish, around 1 carat and colour G or higher for around 5000 euro (i.e. incl tax). Spend a bit more, get a bit more choice.

As far as I’ve seen, diamonds don’t “cheat” the grading system. If it’s an almost clean SI1 plot then it’s not a VS2 that’s sneaked through - it’s a legit SI1 due to the position or type of plotted inclusions, or something in the notes. That’s not to say there isn’t plenty of variation within the grades, because there is!

Unless the recipient will feel the need to be able to say “it’s 1 carat”, then widen the search to look a shade under 1 carat.... in the 0.9 to 1 range - you won’t be able to see the visible diameter difference but you may get a better diamond for your budget.

 

[jcizl1986]

I can't see the JA stone, unfortunately. The link doesn't work. But with only 1 inclusion, I would be worried about a feather if it's an SI1. And one of them has internal graining, which sometimes is a problem.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.00-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-7863523

should be working now

Also do you have any images of the other stone (the not ja one)?

https://www.bluenile.com/ie/diamond-details/LD12947630?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

thats the BN link to the second one with a 360 view.

I think this might be it if you are looking for a 1.0c colorless diamond under 5.0k USD as long as you are ok with the contrast look and imperfection in symmetry and potentially minor leakage at 3 o clock.

re contrast look do you mean the fat black arrows? It working out at 5100 USD exc vat so about 6250 USD in total for me, stupid tax. BN diamond slightly cheaper all in, about 200.

I’m UK based and have recently gone through the same process. Have you looked at Blue Nile? If you decide to return a diamond, they’ve got a presence in Dublin.

To answer your question, it’s perfectly possible to get an eyeclean SI1, with GIA triple excellent cut/symmetry/polish, around 1 carat and colour G or higher for around 5000 euro (i.e. incl tax). Spend a bit more, get a bit more choice.

thanks, yeah the second one is Blue Nile https://www.bluenile.com/ie/diamond-details/LD12947630?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

but JA assure me I can return to them just as easily for 50 bucks. Only think is have to go through customs to get the VAT back, JA will only return what I paid them, which makes sense.

BN diamond is €5300 and the JA is €5500, both inc vat, I've stretched the budget to €5800 all in but these two were the best imo.

 

[mission1]

You’ll probably need to add insurance onto those return prices, but will only be another $25 ish.

Even with tax on diamond price you’re onto a winner vs buying instore.

 

[flyingpig]

It is not just about fat arrows. You may notice some extra darkness around the arrowheads and some black under the table.. This is common in some diamonds with 40.6/34 especially with optimal asymmetry like this one. May or may not be a big deal. Just allow extra few inches of distance when viewing the diamond.

 

[lovedogs]

It is not just about fat arrows. You may notice some extra darkness around the arrowheads and some black under the table.. This is common in some diamonds with 40.6/34 especially with optimal asymmetry like this one. May or may not be a big deal. Just allow extra few inches of distance when viewing the diamond.

Agreed. I don't personally care for the darkness around the arrows the JA one, and the BN also has some extra darkness around some of the arrows and lots of weird symmetry that I dont love.

Of the two, I prefer the JA stone, especially bc the BN has internal and surface graining.

 

[jcizl1986]

Thanks very much everyone. Last question. Are these good buys?, both at 4.9-5k USD excluding tax. From my research these both appear to be very well proportioned. As long as they have an icy sparkle and not too cloudy/hazy I am happy. Are either of these diamonds duds in your opinion?

 

[mission1]

The proportions look fine on paper (v similar to the one I recently bought), but the combination of 40.6 PA and 34 CA is on the shallow side - whilst still within the ideal ranges generally recommended on here. In these stones you do need to look a bit more at the images...neither looks standout amazing to me but perhaps it’s partly that they’re not excellent symmetry. It just depends how fussy you want to get / how long you want to spend searching! As I mentioned before, dropping the carat weight by an invisible amount might open up a few more options within budget, and ideally you’d combine a slightly higher CA of maybe 34.5 or 35 with the 40.6. But you’re on a forum that focusses on the detail, and the ones you have are better than the vast majority.

 

[jcizl1986]

The proportions look fine on paper (v similar to the one I recently bought), but the combination of 40.6 PA and 34 CA is on the shallow side - whilst still within the ideal ranges generally recommended on here. In these stones you do need to look a bit more at the images...neither looks standout amazing to me but perhaps it’s partly that they’re not excellent symmetry. It just depends how fussy you want to get / how long you want to spend searching! As I mentioned before, dropping the carat weight by an invisible amount might open up a few more options within budget, and ideally you’d combine a slightly higher CA of maybe 34.5 or 35 with the 40.6. But you’re on a forum that focusses on the detail, and the ones you have are better than the vast majority.

Thanks, unfortunately with the current inventories, to get those ideal proportions id be looking at dropping a full 10 points, and I find so far you can tell the difference between a 0.9 and 1.0 to the naked eye. Anything between 0.9 and 1.0 have been rare in my searches

 

[mission1]

It’s about the limit of what you can tell apart....maybe 0.2mm in diameter difference. I had a 0.9 and a 1.03 right next to each other and could just about see it. By the time they were on two different people’s hand it would be almost impossible IMO. The 0.9 had a slightly wide spread to the equivalent of about 0.94, but even so. However, as always it’s just a balancing act of what you want to prioritise...there’s no right or wrong answer.

 

[KKJohnson]

I am not liking any options on BN right now as the inventory appears low

I would inquire over these on JA

All Diamonds - Magnified in 360° HD | JamesAllen.com

James Allen offers a wide selection of GIA, IGI and AGS certified conflict-free loose diamonds, all viewable in 360° HD. Take the guesswork out of buying a diamond.

www.jamesallen.com

 

[sledge]

I like the BN stone even less than the JA stone. The symmetry is .....odd.

As pointed out earlier, the JA stone has crazy fat arrows with those paddle formations at the arrow shafts. I love contrast but that stone is a hard no for my own eyes. Not only the arrows but the obstruction makes it unpleasant to me. Maybe your eyes prefer something different and that's cool. But I won't recommend what I wouldn't buy for myself.

I'm short on time today, but I'd suggest hanging tight and allowing myself or others to find some alternatives for you.

If you are patient, I think you will do better. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jcizl1986]

Thanks for your patience and help with my questions. Think I have found a better cut diamond that may make the cut grade but a lot more included looking SI1 than the others. Id worry it wasnt eye clean, although they are fairly small. I suppose its the trade off I face unless I up the budget.

1.01 Carat round diamond

This 1.01 carat round diamond G color si1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[jcizl1986]

Hi guys, is this an improvement?, crown angle is pushing the limit at 35.5 vs a pav angle of 40.6. of course seller is saying no light leakage and eye clean. Seller is B2C jewels.

Cert is attached. HCA is 1.1. price is $5300

 

[sledge]

Hi guys, is this an improvement?, crown angle is pushing the limit at 35.5 vs a pav angle of 40.6. of course seller is saying no light leakage and eye clean. Seller is B2C jewels.

Cert is attached. HCA is 1.1. price is $5300

I like this one, but then again I'm sweet on that 35.5/40.6 combo. Should be a nice firey stone. The idealscope looks great and I love the fat arrows.

My biggest concern is the cavity. It's listed as the 3rd inclusion on the clarity plot, so it's probably minimal. Still it's a turn off for me. You could ask @Diamond_Hawk to to do additional research concerning the cavity and severity of it. For now, I would put this as a backup and try to find one without a cavity.

 

[msop04]

Thanks, unfortunately with the current inventories, to get those ideal proportions id be looking at dropping a full 10 points, and I find so far you can tell the difference between a 0.9 and 1.0 to the naked eye. Anything between 0.9 and 1.0 have been rare in my searches

FWIW, my stone has a 40.6/34 combo... and I love it. If size is important to you, I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[lovedogs]

I really like the b2c option!!

 

[jcizl1986]

Are USA certified diamonds still in operation?, or has the owner retired and the listings on pricescope diamond search are old/expired? Just ive rang a couple of times this week during office hours and nothing as well as emailing.